What is this locomotive classified as?

[Zeldaboy14]

I'm wondering. What sort of engine was Henry the Green engine classified in his old shape as seen here

And his new shape as seen here

 

[Azervich]

Scratches Cosmic head............

A Mogul.. anyways what's with the two different firebox's?

 

[Timothetoolman]

The story of Henry was that "he" suffered from poor heating due to a smalll firebox, which necessitated the need for Welsh anthrasite coal, similar to that used by the GWR. After an accident the character was sent away for repairs that included the fitment of a new firebox to increase steaming capabilities. I believe that in prototypical terms the character of Henry is based on a Stanier 5MT, commonly known as a 'Black 5'

 

[Enkidoh]

From what I understand, Henry was stated by the late Rev. Awdry as being originally built as a prototype design and hence was purchased by the Fat Controller very cheaply - thus also explaining why he was never a reliable locomotive. As for his new shape, well, the new shape he was given was because it appears he was fitted with a Belpaire firebox which has the distinctive 'block' shape Henry has.

Scratches Cosmic head............

A Mogul.. anyways what's with the two different firebox's?

Henry is actually a Ten-wheeler, or 4-6-0 - a Mogul is a 2-6-0 (ala, James). Confusingly in the original Railway Series stories the artist the Rev Awdry commissioned kept depicting Henry's wheel arrangement in an inconsistent fashion - sometimes he was a Ten Wheeler, sometimes a Pacific like Gordon! Eventually though the 4-6-0 arrangement was settled on (from what I'm led to believe this was because the Rev Awdry built a Z scale model railway of Sodor and used kitbashed models as inspiration for the actual characters, so whatever models he acquired and could use, became characters in the books. Or at least, that's what Wikipedia says on the subject, so the accuracy of that story might be suspect.).

 

[Zeldaboy14]

Both of you are kinda hinting at from what I was guessing. Some have said that Henry was a prototype in his old shape that made him perform so badly. Some have went as far as to say it was Henry's stay in the tunnel that caused his firebox to get so clogged, that soot and dirt basically caused the problems he had. What I don't get, is why does Henry still need the special coal (AKA Welsh Coal) when he had his new shape? Take Thomas and the Magic Railroad, Thomas had to collect special coal for him. In Season 16 I believe, Henry needs his special coal, but this time, he can chuff almost just fine on regular coal, just he blows out black smoke. And in the episode from season 18/19, Henry's Hero, Henry is getting the same coal as Hiro. Why do they keep on doing the coal ordeal? And, to add to his firebox, he did have a 3rd overhaul. If you've used SI3D's Henry engine, he did have a 3rd shape.

 

[hauntedclipp]

I'm guessing HiT Entertainment's reason for keeping Henry on the special coal was to make him feel different, which he would later overcome his feeling of inferiority with being different as a life lesson to the children watching the show. With the new writers of season 17, starting with their King of the Railway special, it was explicitly stated by the Toby character that the special coal problem was "fixed years ago," going back to how it was originally supposed to be after Henry's rebuild.

To answer your question, I've read somewhere that it's theorized that Henry was originally built using faulty and rejected plans stolen from the Great Northern Railway, hence his troubles keeping steam. After his accident, Henry was rebuilt as a Stanier Black 5 (mostly so that the Railway Series' artist would now be forced to depict Henry consistently since he was now based off a prototypical design), which eliminated his need for special coal. But that's where the similarities between The Railway Series and the television series end. By the next season until season 17, Henry once again needed special coal, most likely for the whole life lesson thing I mentioned earlier.

 

[Zeldaboy14]

Well, remember what I said. Henry in season 17 needed special coal because of the difference thing. But, by season 18, he was seen in this episode getting ordinary coal. (Duck is in the episode to!)

[video=youtube;6CAGiDAH_aU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6CAGiDAH_aU[/video]

Isn't it strange that basically Henry's issue is resolved in Season 1, then basically he switches coal for everything during/after Thomas and The Magic Railroad?

 

[StarFoxFan11]

Direct from the Thomas wiki: LMS Stanier "Black 5" 4-6-0 with Fowler tender, originally GNR Ivatt Class C1/LNER Gresley Class A1/A3 hybrid 4-6-0
Hope that answers your question.

 

[hauntedclipp]

Oh, forgive me. I had forgotten that it's already up to season 18.
Anyway, the current season is what I meant, which now I know is 18.
Sorry for that!

Yes, it's season 18 that it was said that he no longer needed special coal.
Which begs the question, how much time had passed between seasons 17 and 18 if Toby said that the coal problem was "fixed years ago" when in the preceding season Henry needed it?

 

[Zeldaboy14]

I believe Toby was refering to Henry's first accident with the Flying Kipper. After that, he was sent to Crew to be rebuilt with a bigger firebox. He did not suffer the issue until Thomas and the Magic Railroad. I believe that Henry has had many issues, because he had to take the Flying Kipper 3 other times, and the first 2 times after the first time, he crashed, and in the one episode, from season 15 I believe, he is seen taking the flying kipper, but no one knows if he crashed that time. The Kipper incidents must have done something to Henry's firebox after the first rebuild.

 

[kws4000]

http://www.sodor-island.net/ukhhprofiles_henry.html

This is where perhaps the most reliable info can be found, written from a rather unique viewpoint.

As for the Kipper, it merely instigated the rebuild. The special Welsh coal was merely artistic license taken by HiT, when extended beyond the rebuild. Henry only ever used it for 2 stories, and then it was for only the "Flying Kipper", and the one leading up it.

According to the link, with info likely taken from the Rev Awdry's own notes, Henry's wreck was in 1935.

The artist that never really got it right was C. Reginald Dalby.

 

[Zeldaboy14]

Well stated. Some of this info I did not know, except for what I've stated. For some out there, some like Henry's Prototype stage, some like his rebuild stage. I, personally, like his prototype stage, because I've seen Season 1 narrated by Ringo Starr (Yes, the famous Beatle was a narrator). But, as I stated before, it was Henry's stay in the tunnel that caused more steaming issues with the already small firebox issue he had. But, why was Henry rebuilt a 3rd time without the splashers on his side?

 

[ctclark1]

According to the Rev Awdry's notes, and subsequently books release by his son Christopher, The Fat Controller (aka Sir Topham Hatt) ordered a 4-4-2 Atlantic, but instead got a 4-6-0/4-6-2 (see below) based on stolen blueprints which were rejected by the original designer.

The Welsh coal was a story line in Awdry's original books too. The story originally made it to TV in the first season of Britt Alcroft's TV Series in 1984, at the time all episodes were based on the original books, it wasn't until the third season of production in the 1990's that Britt started taking more creative license and writing her own episodes to intertwine with the original stories. That being said the tv series was not always consistent in their portrayal of engine modifications due to the way it was produced. They would basically break all the stories down by location of each scene and film them all at one time, for example all the scenes filmed at "the big station" (aka Tidmouth) for an entire season were filmed at one time, then the set was deconstructed and the next one constructed, all those scenes filmed, and so on. As such there were occasions where extra footage was needed as filler and you'd occasionally see recycled footage, or things were missed from time to time - when watching the original series from the 80s and early 90s, and even into the early 2000's before the CGI came into play you can see all sorts of inconsistencies like this (in particular the number of cars being pulled often changes between camera views and locations)

The reason behind Henry's rebuild was a point of contention between Awdry and his original illustrator. If you go back and look at the original Railway Series books, Henry changed shape and color quite often, despite Awdry providing the illustrator with a model to follow. He would randomly change between blue and green, and sometimes was a 4-6-2 or 4-6-0 (even within the same story - referenced in an interview one time as the world's only retractable truck on a steam engine)

The Welsh Coal/Flying Kipper stories were an attempt by Awdry around the time his original illustrator quit (over a dispute about Percy looking nothing like his model either, the "Wooly Caterpillar" story was actually based on something Awdry had said to the original illustrator), to explain with some sense why Henry changed shape one final time when his new illustrator would finally start drawing him consistently.

For more info on Henry (Especially the "wait, what?" moments): see http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/henry.htm

I couldn't tell you what's happened on the Island of Sodor since the late '90s as I haven't watched Thomas since HiT took over and went CGI. If you really want to know what happened on the Island of Sodor you really need to buy the original Railway Series books - there's a really nice all-in-one copy that was still a good read when I was in my 20's.

 

[Zeldaboy14]

I have the All-In-One book. It is a great book to help depict the story of Henry. But, the whole "Wooly Caterpiller" thing I never knew about. It seems that Henry and Percy both share similarity's because they both don't look like there models at all. But, another things strikes up. Why in the RWS was Henry repainted blue at the end of Henry, Gordon, and Edward, and in the TV series, just polished?

 

[kws4000]

I have the All-In-One book. It is a great book to help depict the story of Henry. But, the whole "Wooly Caterpiller" thing I never knew about. It seems that Henry and Percy both share similarity's because they both don't look like there models at all. But, another things strikes up. Why in the RWS was Henry repainted blue at the end of Henry, Gordon, and Edward, and in the TV series, just polished?

Well, something tells me that they really didn't want to paint Henry blue for just a few clips, then have to repaint him green before he flew with the Kipper, then have to rebuild him. Lot of work on only one model, and would be a trifle confusing for people who didn't read the originals.

 

[ctclark1]

Well, something tells me that they really didn't want to paint Henry blue for just a few clips, then have to repaint him green before he flew with the Kipper, then have to rebuild him. Lot of work on only one model, and would be a trifle confusing for people who didn't read the originals.

Correct, additonally Britt didn't want to risk confusing the young children who would be watching the series as that would've then made 4 main engines who were blue (Thomas, who FYI was actually not intended to be the center of the railway series, Britt made him that way for TV, Edward, and Gordon being the other three), especially considering there was no basis for Henry being blue and then green other than the lack of attention to detail by the original illustrator. The color change was never really mentioned by Rev. Awdry in the books AFAIK, it may have possibly been explained by Christopher much later on in "Reading Between the Lines" which is where he explained a lot of backstories for the characters.

It is similar to Donald & Douglas being black in the TV series instead of Blue like they were in the RWS.

 

[Azervich]

Only 18 seasons? thought there was way more than that.... I did watch Thomas... however that was in the late 1980s and early 1990s, lol.
I phased out of Thomas for Transformers beast Wars, then I phased out of that for Star Trek, now I'm phased out of Star Trek for Kamen Rider and Meitantei Conan, lol.

 

[Zeldaboy14]

Ok. I can see why now. So, back to my other question, why was Henry rebuilt a 2nd time without the side splashers?

 

[kws4000]

Yes, there was a basis for being blue (da da dee da da dime...). When Henry left the tunnel, and was cleaned up, TFC asked Henry what color he wanted to be painted, and he said something like "Blue, Sir, so that I would look like Edward and Gordon". Final illustration in that story was of Henry having blue slapped on top of all of the dirt accumulated.

Summary: Blue was a deliberate choice by the Reverand.

As for lack of splashers, all I say is ??????? Maybe instead of another wreck with the Kipper, he found his way to the floor and stayed there ????????

 

[Zeldaboy14]

I wonder the splasher issue as well. Was it ment as a mistake, or was it a rebuild. But it seems that Henry has many issues, one being notible to being labled as a mixed-traffic engine. He can pull trucks just as well as coaches. But you hardly ever see him pull coachs anymore. in season 7/8, Henry made a wish to pull the Express, and the next day, he had to pull the Express. But, he forgot how to pull the express. How could Henry forget how to pull the Wild nor Western if he pulled during Season 1-5?