What is the biggest Trainz file can be made
- Thread starter jay2arch
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alexs242081
Member
I reckon your main problem however will be in game performance, before you hit the 2GB limit.
You'll need alot of RAM to run such a large route, strong processor and decent video card too, of course depending on how detailed it is.
Alex
You'll need alot of RAM to run such a large route, strong processor and decent video card too, of course depending on how detailed it is.
Alex
My experience with Trainz is that very large routes take a while to load and then take a while before you can actually do any activity because of content still being loaded. However, once everything is loaded the only thing that effects performance is the settings of the performance sliders and the density and poly count of the immediate scenery. As an example, Montana Rail is about 170 MByte route, loads in 30 seconds and runs very fast because of sparse scenery. Ironbound Industries (kuid:106916:102086) is about 1.5 MByte, takes 2 minutes to load and is very jerky to run because of the dense scenery.
Bob
Bob
The maximum size for the archives is also 2GB, if it's relevant.
As far as I know, this can just keep growing - remember the archive is a file, but the Local directory is just a folder, so there should be no limit.
WileeCoyote
Eatibus Almost Anythingus
Yes, there certainly is a limit where your computer sets the limit for an acceptable game performance. I have run for example Murchison hi-detailed route of 400 baseboards with 2GB RAM and a Geforcecard 7800 with full sliders and no problems, but that was about the limit for good performance and the FPS-value was not to high.
My own route of about the same size performed equally, but when it recently reached 500 baseboards there was a lot of stuttering and not fun to run or build any more. Finally, after a lot of thinking, I took a loan and bought a new computer with Intel Core 2 DUO, 2GB RAM and with a Sparkle Geforce 8800GTX-card and the performance is exellent again, with FPS between 50-60 and no stuttering. I understand that the RAM-memory will be the next thing to upgrade if I wish to go any further, as the load on the RAM now is about 70%.
Håkan
Dinorius_Redundicus
kuid 68213
I seem to recall a similar thread in the old forum in which someone (Chilly Willy?) claimed he made a 20,000 board test layout.
I think the real limit is not so much in the hardware or software, it's in how much patience you can muster to texture and decorate a huge map. I'm currently working on a 1256-board layout and after high-detail texturing of just 200 boards, I'm seeing spots before my eyes...
The ground file is 182MB, loads into TRS2004 in a few seconds. Can't say about frame rates yet as there are no tracks laid, but it handles freely in Surveyor. As Bob said, I think frames depend more on the density of polys in the local vicinity than on the map size.
I think the real limit is not so much in the hardware or software, it's in how much patience you can muster to texture and decorate a huge map. I'm currently working on a 1256-board layout and after high-detail texturing of just 200 boards, I'm seeing spots before my eyes...
The ground file is 182MB, loads into TRS2004 in a few seconds. Can't say about frame rates yet as there are no tracks laid, but it handles freely in Surveyor. As Bob said, I think frames depend more on the density of polys in the local vicinity than on the map size.
Number of running trains a factor
What I'm finding is that with a decent video card and a certain amount of restraint in piling up the polygons, the number of trains actually running becomes the limiting factor. I've got one of those 700+ board layouts in progress, and except for one or two areas where there's way too much stuff and the frame rate drops to about 2 fps (!), for the most part if I have 6-8 trains or fewer running things go very smoothly. As soon as a few extra trains kick in (from portals) I start to see more and more stuttering, until at 16+ trains things get very 'jerky,' even in areas where it's just track and bare baseboard for several boards in all directions. Apparently the limitation is on the processor here as it tries to keep track of the AI for all those trains, regardless of the number of polys onscreen. Does this match others' experiences?
Hopefully this means that as machines get faster the number of smooth-running simultaneous trains can also increase--but only if Trainz starts to take advantage of multiple threads on multiple cores.
--Lamont
What I'm finding is that with a decent video card and a certain amount of restraint in piling up the polygons, the number of trains actually running becomes the limiting factor. I've got one of those 700+ board layouts in progress, and except for one or two areas where there's way too much stuff and the frame rate drops to about 2 fps (!), for the most part if I have 6-8 trains or fewer running things go very smoothly. As soon as a few extra trains kick in (from portals) I start to see more and more stuttering, until at 16+ trains things get very 'jerky,' even in areas where it's just track and bare baseboard for several boards in all directions. Apparently the limitation is on the processor here as it tries to keep track of the AI for all those trains, regardless of the number of polys onscreen. Does this match others' experiences?
Hopefully this means that as machines get faster the number of smooth-running simultaneous trains can also increase--but only if Trainz starts to take advantage of multiple threads on multiple cores.
--Lamont
I find I get bored of route-building after around 30 boards (max), so I tend to model short branches from a medium-size mainline station (trains approach the station from both directions from portals every 10min to represent the main-line). However I also include a small tramway system on most of my routes, and because of the frequency of trams they do have a big impact, though it is quite local in terms of the map-size.
I created a route recently which had a maximum of 15 trams following the same route (if there was a problem they backed into a portal, preventing creation of new trams until the existing ones had moved). This was fine at a leisurely 20mph, but on the railway that passed through the middle you felt the performance hit. It wasn't too bad when you got away from it though.
I created a route recently which had a maximum of 15 trams following the same route (if there was a problem they backed into a portal, preventing creation of new trams until the existing ones had moved). This was fine at a leisurely 20mph, but on the railway that passed through the middle you felt the performance hit. It wasn't too bad when you got away from it though.
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tommylommykins
KUID 224131
Sorry, but that implies that the game spends time loading for no point at all, which I find hard to believe... However, also I find that laoding a number of scripts can take a lot out of the smoothness of the game. Unfortunately, I believe they have to be loaded and running everywhere... not just when in view.
What I'm finding is that with a decent video card and a certain amount of restraint in piling up the polygons, the number of trains actually running becomes the limiting factor. I've got one of those 700+ board layouts in progress, and except for one or two areas where there's way too much stuff and the frame rate drops to about 2 fps (!), for the most part if I have 6-8 trains or fewer running things go very smoothly. As soon as a few extra trains kick in (from portals) I start to see more and more stuttering, until at 16+ trains things get very 'jerky,' even in areas where it's just track and bare baseboard for several boards in all directions. Apparently the limitation is on the processor here as it tries to keep track of the AI for all those trains, regardless of the number of polys onscreen. Does this match others' experiences?
Hopefully this means that as machines get faster the number of smooth-running simultaneous trains can also increase--but only if Trainz starts to take advantage of multiple threads on multiple cores.
--Lamont
Yes, I agree that the number of trans is very essential for the performance. If there are to many of them in the same session, everything slows down (changing camera etc.) and I think that there can be a problem with the sound as well.
Håkan
ianwoodmore
Active member
How big the files
I have some 87,000 assets reported by CMP with about 430 I can't download. My local folder is larger than 160GB. CMP normally opens in about 30 seconds after loading Trainz unless it can't find DLS. The size of the local file does not appear to impact greatly on start up of a layout in the game, although I note that it is faster to load the game via CMP than directly even though CMP is closed before game is opened.
I have just completed my archiving. I had previously archived ~73,000 in Jun06 and this time I had ~13,000 to do. I found some strange behaviour:
Not everything would archive.
Some took more than one attempt.
Some got a warning that config file couldn't be opened even though manually that was possible. It archived them anyway.
A couple of ground files were reported as too large to archive.
Some items crashed CMP if you tried to open them.
I find archiving less than satisfactory because unlike TRS2004 where you could identify an individual CDP and open it, in TRS2006 you have to open the cmpa archive file with CMP to get at individual assets. Is there a utility other than CMP that could make this job easier? Also, does anyone know if the archive gets updated when you correct Faulty assets in CMP?
I like TAD even less in that the local directory has totally indecypherable names and temp files also with no cross reference to identify to the CDP. When so many asset filenames are the same it can lead to errors. I'd like to be able quickly and easily locate a local file particularly when that asset crashes CMP and I can't delete it. Similarly saving the local folder to CD or DVD at this size folder takes alot of discs. Perhaps when Blueray discs are available. With nearly 25GB of new data per year backups are becoming a chore. However I believe mirroring the local file onto another hard drive will probably be the best approach.,with the cheap availability of large hard drives. 2007 will see up to 1TB storage available.
Other than these quirks I like TRS2006 and CMP is fantastic. I look forward to Trainz Classics.
I have not explored the sizes of files in the game but my subjective observation supports Tommylommykins findings
I have some 87,000 assets reported by CMP with about 430 I can't download. My local folder is larger than 160GB. CMP normally opens in about 30 seconds after loading Trainz unless it can't find DLS. The size of the local file does not appear to impact greatly on start up of a layout in the game, although I note that it is faster to load the game via CMP than directly even though CMP is closed before game is opened.
I have just completed my archiving. I had previously archived ~73,000 in Jun06 and this time I had ~13,000 to do. I found some strange behaviour:
Not everything would archive.
Some took more than one attempt.
Some got a warning that config file couldn't be opened even though manually that was possible. It archived them anyway.
A couple of ground files were reported as too large to archive.
Some items crashed CMP if you tried to open them.
I find archiving less than satisfactory because unlike TRS2004 where you could identify an individual CDP and open it, in TRS2006 you have to open the cmpa archive file with CMP to get at individual assets. Is there a utility other than CMP that could make this job easier? Also, does anyone know if the archive gets updated when you correct Faulty assets in CMP?
I like TAD even less in that the local directory has totally indecypherable names and temp files also with no cross reference to identify to the CDP. When so many asset filenames are the same it can lead to errors. I'd like to be able quickly and easily locate a local file particularly when that asset crashes CMP and I can't delete it. Similarly saving the local folder to CD or DVD at this size folder takes alot of discs. Perhaps when Blueray discs are available. With nearly 25GB of new data per year backups are becoming a chore. However I believe mirroring the local file onto another hard drive will probably be the best approach.,with the cheap availability of large hard drives. 2007 will see up to 1TB storage available.
Other than these quirks I like TRS2006 and CMP is fantastic. I look forward to Trainz Classics.
I have not explored the sizes of files in the game but my subjective observation supports Tommylommykins findings
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My local folder is about 10 gigs...
FECrailway_Richard
Member
FEC 2020
I haven't taken an actual count of the 720 x 720 boards yet, but with over 500 miles of track on the ground, I know that there is well over 1000 of "them there squares."
I am so glad to hear that larger layouts work on computers with more horsepower. I want to keep the entire Florida East Coast Railway, along with the NASA Railroad together all in one piece.
Perhaps later I can break it in half for those with less powerful machines.
Does spline length cause preformance problems? If one unsegmented road or track spline section passes over two or more boards does that play havoc with your memory space?
I have limited the number of assets used in the entire layout. I greatly limit the number of different assets that I use on a single board.
I heard that using the same asset many times over on a single board uses much less memory than having the same number of items but using a greater number of different assets.
Having hundreds of pieces of rolling stock sitting along the route is a big NO-NO! Having dozens of locomotives sitting along the route is a bigger NO-NO!!
I am replacing long distances with Backdrops.
What are some other file space saving techniques?
Thanks;
Richard
I haven't taken an actual count of the 720 x 720 boards yet, but with over 500 miles of track on the ground, I know that there is well over 1000 of "them there squares."
I am so glad to hear that larger layouts work on computers with more horsepower. I want to keep the entire Florida East Coast Railway, along with the NASA Railroad together all in one piece.
Perhaps later I can break it in half for those with less powerful machines.
Does spline length cause preformance problems? If one unsegmented road or track spline section passes over two or more boards does that play havoc with your memory space?
I have limited the number of assets used in the entire layout. I greatly limit the number of different assets that I use on a single board.
I heard that using the same asset many times over on a single board uses much less memory than having the same number of items but using a greater number of different assets.
Having hundreds of pieces of rolling stock sitting along the route is a big NO-NO! Having dozens of locomotives sitting along the route is a bigger NO-NO!!
I am replacing long distances with Backdrops.
What are some other file space saving techniques?
Thanks;
Richard
WileeCoyote
Eatibus Almost Anythingus
I am currently trying to procure some payware addons from www.protrainperfect.de as ProTrain Perfect is just Trainz 2006 with a different name, the Dresden-Nuernberg addon is what I'm after and with 400 kilometers of track It won't be small. And my machine is almost exactly at the reccomended requirements (save that it has 512MB of RAM), I'll let you guys know how it fares once I can get it.
WileeCoyote
WileeCoyote