UnionPacificRules
NYC, PRR, UP, SP, BNSF...
I don't know if anybody else already adressed this topic, but can anybody update me on the conditions and potential buyers for those old, rusty, abandoned shortline railroads/subs?
What is happening to the abandoned railroads?
- Thread starter UnionPacificRules
- Start date
You may want to take a look at reality and the economy in the USA and around the globe.
Here is a link that just shows job/business losses and a deteriorating economy.
http://www.dailyjobcuts.com/
Why would anyone want to invest into this type of property?
So, easy answer to potential buyers..... there are none.
Have a good day.
UnionPacificRules
NYC, PRR, UP, SP, BNSF...
Ok Sorry for buyers and the economy, but are they being torn up etc.?
We are fortunate in Great Britain even with the bad cutbacks in the early 1960's to have a more widespread passenger railway but there have been re-openings. Here in Scotland we have had lines closed and lifted in the time of the infamous Dr Beeching's railway cuts all those years ago relaid and opened again. Where this has happened the passenger levels have superceeded expectations.
UnionPacificRules
NYC, PRR, UP, SP, BNSF...
Cool! So Britain has almost all railroads in operating status? I wonder though in the US, how many miles of rails are being scrapped, and recycled per year? If nobody wants this topic, please close it.....
The industrial lines & switching railroads in the USA typically get bought out buy the larger railroads, such as the infamous Yellow Empire, aka Union Pacific. Railroads that are subsidiaries of the larger railroads ie: Longview Switching Terminal remain their own entity under the jurisdiction of the larger parent company. The economy of the past 3 to 4 years have forced the smaller railroads to shut down, and the larger railroads to furlough thousands of employees.
UnionPacificRules
NYC, PRR, UP, SP, BNSF...
So when an empire takes over, it ruins jobs in the smaller one right?
So much for buying railroads, the empires bought them all!
So much for buying railroads, the empires bought them all!
Let me clarify.
The class one railroad, Union Pacific, is referred to as the Yellow Empire (Or the Empire, take your pick). UP is known in the national railroading community for buying out the smaller shortline RR's to seek profits, and if I recall correctly the employees of the railroads that have been bought out keep their jobs to a certain degree.
UnionPacificRules
NYC, PRR, UP, SP, BNSF...
Ok........so how many more years can you forsee untill all shortlines are bought by empires (Sp, Bnsf, Up)?.....
You are entirely misunderstanding what I am talking about.
Shortlines (Class 3 railroads) won't ever be entirely bought out. The "Empire" (UNION PACIFIC) is infamous for purchasing smaller railroads. Hence the name(s). All railroads buy out other railroads, its no different from when another business buys another business. Like Blockbuster buying out Hollywood video.
Shortlines (Class 3 railroads) won't ever be entirely bought out. The "Empire" (UNION PACIFIC) is infamous for purchasing smaller railroads. Hence the name(s). All railroads buy out other railroads, its no different from when another business buys another business. Like Blockbuster buying out Hollywood video.
UnionPacificRules
NYC, PRR, UP, SP, BNSF...
Ok......
On another route, what are your newest routes? (Your sig. says 'routebuilder')
On another route, what are your newest routes? (Your sig. says 'routebuilder')
magickmaker
New member
Part of the problem is the iron and steel used in the rails. Years ago I worked at a company that used this steel in giant rolling mills to make angle iron. I remember that bout once a month or so, the government would send this inspector out to audit the steel we were using.
I always wondered why this was, so once I actually asked. The answer I got shocked me.
Apparently that due to some federal guidelines, it's actually illegal to sell most railroad rails for any use other than well, rails. Only rails of a certain age, which have been determined old enough to no longer be usuable, are able to be resold.
When a railroad is abandoned and the rails pulled up, they're not sold for scrap. If they were produced after (I forget the date so I'm guessing here) 1940, then the rails can be reused in modern class 1 railroads (spurs mostly) and by shortlines. Rails produced before that, however, have a different carbon content and aren't considered stable enough to hold up to modern traffic and weights. Those rails are written off and can be sold to companies for reuse.
Here's the real kicker though. Companies that buy the old rails, have to open themselves up for inspection. The steel in the rails is still closely controlled, so only a handful of uses are allowed for it. As with my former employer, "Angle Iron" is the most common use. Typically anything structural, is right out the window as a definite no.
Sometimes, the old rails that are "too old" are still reused. These rails are refurbished and used to make frogs for points, guard rails, and various ancillary structures around the railroads themselves. In other cases, they may find themselves stored, set aside for temporary repairs in time of derailments, or to be used (as I've already said) for guard rails should the need arise.
I always wondered why this was, so once I actually asked. The answer I got shocked me.
Apparently that due to some federal guidelines, it's actually illegal to sell most railroad rails for any use other than well, rails. Only rails of a certain age, which have been determined old enough to no longer be usuable, are able to be resold.
When a railroad is abandoned and the rails pulled up, they're not sold for scrap. If they were produced after (I forget the date so I'm guessing here) 1940, then the rails can be reused in modern class 1 railroads (spurs mostly) and by shortlines. Rails produced before that, however, have a different carbon content and aren't considered stable enough to hold up to modern traffic and weights. Those rails are written off and can be sold to companies for reuse.
Here's the real kicker though. Companies that buy the old rails, have to open themselves up for inspection. The steel in the rails is still closely controlled, so only a handful of uses are allowed for it. As with my former employer, "Angle Iron" is the most common use. Typically anything structural, is right out the window as a definite no.
Sometimes, the old rails that are "too old" are still reused. These rails are refurbished and used to make frogs for points, guard rails, and various ancillary structures around the railroads themselves. In other cases, they may find themselves stored, set aside for temporary repairs in time of derailments, or to be used (as I've already said) for guard rails should the need arise.
Last edited:
UnionPacificRules
NYC, PRR, UP, SP, BNSF...
Wow so this is like water bottles-made cheap but lasts like 90 years.....
As my good friend rjhowie2 put it, after the axe,
Most of Englands old railway routes were bought by private owners, to either run steam trains on, for example The Bluebell Line, or to run new modern faster tram links, to get passengers from town to town or city to city, this increases passenger numbers using public transport dramitically, as most people want to get somewhere fast or ride behind a steam engine.
So there is life in the old tracks yet, if you have the money, buy the line and run steam trains on them, if you don't have the money, do what some done in the UK, joined forces with others who had money, who loved trains and who would see investment coming back to them, buy the line with some old steam engines and then tell the world about it, once one person comes, the world will follow...
Joe Airtime
Most of Englands old railway routes were bought by private owners, to either run steam trains on, for example The Bluebell Line, or to run new modern faster tram links, to get passengers from town to town or city to city, this increases passenger numbers using public transport dramitically, as most people want to get somewhere fast or ride behind a steam engine.
So there is life in the old tracks yet, if you have the money, buy the line and run steam trains on them, if you don't have the money, do what some done in the UK, joined forces with others who had money, who loved trains and who would see investment coming back to them, buy the line with some old steam engines and then tell the world about it, once one person comes, the world will follow...
Joe Airtime
amigacooke
Well-known member
I think this is slightly misleading, the situation is somewhat more complicated.
Beeching Axe
I wouldn't say 'almost all' by a long shot, there's still only somewhere around 15-20% of the railways operating that were operating pre-beeching, it's just that that figure has crept up from around 13-17%
Where I grew up, I was near enough to play on the trackbeds (no track, it was pulled up and 'sold for scrap' [which was essentially slang for 'reused to make steel'] years earlier) of three abandoned/closed railways (Forge Valley Line and Malton & Driffield Line, both closed in the 1950s, and the Scarborough & Whitby line (closed by beeching)). All 3 of those would be essentially impossible to re-open today:
Forge Valley line has since been heavily built-upon by residential building projects.
Malton & Driffield is largely untouched in terms of going through residential areas, but it ran through a couple of areas that have since been quarried heavily, and thus re-opening would require heavy re-routing.
Scarborough & Whitby is the worst of them, despite being the most recently closed, it ran through what are now Commercial and Residential areas (Scarborough goods yard is occupied by a supermarket and some other crud now, the portion of the line through to scalby is built-over by houses), and suffers areas where sea-wall deterioriation has resulted in the trackbed vanishing.
So none of those 3 are ever going to re-open - which is a shame especially in the case of Scarborough to Whitby, as it was one of the most picturesque railway routes in britain thanks the sections where it ran only a few meters from the sea.
Of course, we could always force goods (most current estimates put road traffic in the UK at about 50-70% freight by vehicle count, 95% freight by damage-to-road) back onto the rails, close a few of the now-too-many motorways and lay trackbeds where the motorways used to be
Railbanking happens.
Starting in the sixties, when many railroads began to merge and consolidate their operations, quite a few lines were abandoned because they were redundant and uneconomical to operate.
Typically the contract between a railroad and local land owners states that if the right-of-way ceases to be used for transportation purposes, then the railroad's land reverts to the original owner.
Luckily, to prevent the destruction of potentially valuable right-of-way, we have the process of railbanking. In this process, the railroad's right-of-way is purchased by the local government, complete with tracks, bridges, tunnels, etc. This is under the agreement that if the railroad needs the land again, they can buy it back and reopen it.
During the interim period, the right-of-way is usually fixed up for recreational use. Tracks are removed, the right-of-way paved, and a multi-use trail is built where the tracks once were.
For example, the Washington and Old Dominion Railroad was an interurban line, abandoned in 1968. The right-of-way was acquired by the Northern Virginia Regional Parks Authority in the seventies, and the whole railroad was reopened as a multi-use trail in 1982.
Though it is unlikely that it will ever see rail traffic again, the right-of-way still exists and is ready for reconversion at any time. (though it would require cutting a lot of red tape.)
The Capital Crescent Trail, on the other hand is a railbanked right-of-way which is likely to see railroad use again. Originally acquired by Montgomery County in 1988 from CSX, it was converted to a rail-trail from Silver Spring, Maryland to Georgetown in the District of Colombia.
However, with large new residential and commercial developments in the region, it has become necessary to build new rapid transit lines in the areas served by the trail.
As a result, a large portion of the trail is likely to be rebuilt as the light rail Purple Line of the Washington Metro. This light rail line would also include a mixed use trail paralleling it.
Old rail lines never die, they just get converted to rail-trails.
Umm...Not to be rude, but where have you been for the last 14 or so years? SP has been long gone.
And yes, I know that SP bought out the UP and kept the UP name, doesnt mean I like the UP.
Oh, and here in Texas, we have two nicknames of which I know of...
Uber Pathetic or Uncle Pete