What Does This Norfolk Southern Sign Mean?

[UP5521]

I saw a video once of a narrow gauge tourist train in Europe, steam powered, there was an open gondula behind the engine, giving the front passenger car a good view from the video camera. As the train came to a crossing, a Blue BMW stopped, but what looked like a Silver Prius bolted around the stopped BMW, and across the crossing, almost made it, but got hit in the right rear hard, and went spinning into a ditch. The train stopped within a few hundred feet.

This is pretty typical of crossing accidents. Stupid people thinking that their rush to do whatever they are doing is more important then paying attention. Many pay with their lives. And I don't care what those "invenstgation" news programs say, most crossing accidents are caused by inpatient drivers, not by faulty equipment. Look, Listen, Live, thats the motto of Operation Life Saver, you can hear a train horn quite a long ways away.

I know what its like for engineers to have to hit the brakes hard and wonder if your going to stop in time. I had a switch flip on me once at work, almost made a new entrance to the train shed, filled with the cars for the steam train, and two 107 year old locomotives. Thankfully it only happened once. The really scary one was when the train derailed on a corner, I thought I was going to walk back and find the cars halfway off the track. Thankfully it was just a single axle, but it made for a bumpy ride, even in the locomotive two cars ahead, for that 50 feet or so it was off

thats scary,this is a rare incident when a steam locomotive hits a car and that is what certain drivers get for not practicing logical thinking all because they are in a rush trying to get across the tracks before the train gets there which can and will be costly!

 

[motorbreath]

I'm sure there are rare occasions where my succeeding statement may be unfair, untrue, or unwarranted, and I apologize for that...

If you get hit by a train, you probably deserve it.

 

[UP5521]

It is a Company rule ! If an engineer doesn't follow a written company rule to the "T", and was fooling around playing nonsensical self made up melodies like: "Shave and a Haircut 2 Bits" on the horn, at a crossing, and struck someone, it would be an extreme violation of company rule. It is a company standard, that has been scientifically and psychologically tested that, 2 long drawn out blasts get drivers and pedestrians attention, followed by a sharp short blast, and another loud long blast that gives a final fair warning. Listeners also remember the pattern and can tell that it is a train...and not a garbage or dump truck. An RR engineer, or truck driver, can recieve a traffic violation ticket from State and local police, for operating a horn without following the specific stadards, and can get speeding tickets also by cops using radar speed guns ! Some engineers might wave, but will not blow the horn, as you wave back, as this too is a company infraction of improper use of a company horn, a policy physically spelled out by the FRA and also in the RR's book of rules.

Also...State law in PA forbids any bell, air horn, or whistle to be installed, or operated on an automoble or non-commercial truck, and you can be fined or face impoundment of a vehicle by attempting to simulate a train warning device, by blowing it on your automobile.

Edit: Florida law can be enforced also...air horns are illegal in most US States for private use. Most States spell it out: "a horn or other warning device shall not emit an unreasonably loud (decible rating) or harsh sound or a whistle". If you (scare someone) cause an accident, fatality, or heart attack by use of an excessivly loud air horn, you could be charged. As for Harley shops selling Air Horns: Fireworks are illegal to use in Ohio... but you can purchase them there.

Rules are made...to be followed...there are thoughts behind the making of every rule

In Morse Code it would either represent: TTET or the letter"Q" , or perhaps the symbol " ! " which is: __ __ __ _
http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/funfacts/signals.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Morse_code

http://images.google.com/images?q=m...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CB8QsAQwAw

What?,when was this rule put into effect?

 

[TrainMan12]

Not blowing the 'long, long, short, long' at all crossings wouldn't be too big of a violation. There are certain circumstances to consider; is blaring on the horn through a resedential area at 2AM really necessary?

 

[UP5521]

I just need to know if anyone knows how much can you be fined if a locomotive engineer can be expected to pay for violating the rules with steam whistles from steam engines and diesel horns from diesel engines?
thanks!

 

[LoudTrain]

Woody,

I have a 1950s-era C&O Rulebook at home, and it has about a dozen horn signals -- things like "Recall Train Crew from North," "Recall Train Crew from West," etc. I presume those aren't used anymore, as all I've heard -- both on Amtrak and museum railroads are the ones you listed."

-- Russ

PS, Do railways still use 'torpedoes'? I don't think I've ever heard one go off...

 

[SR6900]

PS, Do railways still use 'torpedoes'? I don't think I've ever heard one go off...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brA97HDgWK0

 

[WileeCoyote]

I find it rather interesting how American railways often have the rule (or at least de facto rule) of whistling before railway crossings, in morse code no less!

In Germany this is simply uncommon. On branch lines and unprotected crossings, e.g. no barriers, trains usually do whistle, but ONLY if a whistle sign (the letter 'P' painted black on a white background with a black border, as of this year required to be reflective) is present. And when they do whistle they're only supposed to give a blast of the whistle not exceeding three seconds, two blasts if two black circles are present right below the whistle sign. Nonetheless, in recent years the number of such crossings has been decreasing. You'll only hear a train whistling on some branchlines nowadays since unprotected crossings on mainlines have practically disappeared. Of particular interest is the lack of any whistling when a train approaches a crossing with barriers that only go halfway across the road. Unless there is a good reason for it, there usually is no need to whistle.

I must say though that I find it very strange and somewhat unsafe that nearly all protected level crossings in America have barriers that only go halfway across the road. In Germany full barriers are the norm, or are at least becoming the norm. One would think that full barriers would be fairly widelt implemented in a country where so many idiots decide to play chicken in their cars, often killing themselves, making a locomotive engineer an unwilling witness to their death and holding up traffic on a line for hours on end. Why is it that I've yet to see a single level crossing with full barriers here?

WileeCoyote

 

[tonyvdb]

In my home city its becoming more standard to put full gates across the entire road.

If you have a look here and select the "locations" tab and find the "University Ave - 114 St" live camera. You will see a live view of one of our new LRV crossings where they installed full road blocking arms you may have to keep watching for a train depending on the time of day as it cycles through 3 camera views (trains run every 5 min during morning and afternoon rush and every 10min off peak) but you will see them in operation.

 

[ZapperJet]

@Wilee,

I believe the reason for the blasts on American railroads may be to prevent the case of an inoperable grade crossing signal. I have heard of cases where this has happened. It's also standard to look both ways down the track before crossing in case of this (or at least it is in Virginia).

Cheers,
John

 

[brakemen]

heres my post on the norfolk southern signals

just a little info for you from my city.

I live a quater mile away from the norfolk southern tracks and in one mile this spot has 7 public cross overs. the driver blows his horn at before every intersection. the horn signals you all are talking about they use the 2 long 1 short 1 long blasts.and they use all the otherhors signals hyou said in your post. like you said 3 blasts for back up, 2 short blasts for forward, 2 shorts forward proceed, 1 short complete stop, 3 short for backwards. and yes they do use all those horn signals in my city. you maybe thinking how he knows this? I'v been to the track since I was 13 years old and I still do and I recognizde the patterns these ns makes. specially at the switch yard. one more thing our norfolk southern tracks they did have a sign with a "w" on it but replace it with the 2 long 1 short 1long.
brakemen

 

[aodgh0st]

Not blowing the 'long, long, short, long' at all crossings wouldn't be too big of a violation. There are certain circumstances to consider; is blaring on the horn through a resedential area at 2AM really necessary?

hate to say it, but it kinda is. you can get in trouble for not blowing the proper sequence and also if you don't blow through the entire crossing. and yes, we hate blowing the horn by your house at 2 am too, but we have to do it. some of these engines we have now won't let you just toot the horn, its either full blast or your not blowing. i think part of that is due to the fact that besides blowing for a crossing, it also has to exceed a certain decibal to warn the public. if you live in the us, you can always go to your city council meeting and request a quiet zone. what that essentially is is basically setting up the crossings as no one can cross them while the gates are down. if the crossings meet a certain criteria they can be exempt, also, this may or may not be up your alley, but if there are say 10 duplicate crossings thru town, you might be able to petition to have some redudant crossings taken out. that also might improve the quality of life. but other then that, we have to blow. and yes, it annoys the crap out of us as much as it does ya'll.

 

[UP5521]

HeHe,let me guess, the three second rule? well if that is the case then whoever is driving the locomotives should be careful or risk be hit with a big fine in the process!

 

[SR6900]

I find it rather interesting how American railways often have the rule (or at least de facto rule) of whistling before railway crossings, in morse code no less!

In Germany this is simply uncommon. On branch lines and unprotected crossings, e.g. no barriers, trains usually do whistle, but ONLY if a whistle sign (the letter 'P' painted black on a white background with a black border, as of this year required to be reflective) is present. And when they do whistle they're only supposed to give a blast of the whistle not exceeding three seconds, two blasts if two black circles are present right below the whistle sign. Nonetheless, in recent years the number of such crossings has been decreasing. You'll only hear a train whistling on some branchlines nowadays since unprotected crossings on mainlines have practically disappeared. Of particular interest is the lack of any whistling when a train approaches a crossing with barriers that only go halfway across the road. Unless there is a good reason for it, there usually is no need to whistle.

WileeCoyote

Here the rule is long long short long, to be blown at least 20 seconds before the crossing, but being blown no more than 1/4 mile from the crossing. So if you're going fast enough you don't blow for 20 seconds.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Is there an asset on DLS, or elsewhere, that automaticly blows an engines horn or whistle ?
There are 2 on DLS "Sound Bi-derrectional Horn" and "Sound Horn" but it only blows one really short toot.
I am looking for a long and short blast, or a US grafde crossing automatic horn blast sequence.

I am testing out "Xing Ahead Whistle" sign, and several other "Grade Xing"s".

Also, is there an asset that automaticly rings the bell on a locomotive ?

 

[n8phu]

Just for the curious, it would be "Q" in morse code....

EDIT: Crud, missed cascaderail pointing that out..

 

[motorbreath]

Is there an asset on DLS, or elsewhere, that automaticly blows an engines horn or whistle ?
There are 2 on DLS "Sound Bi-derrectional Horn" and "Sound Horn" but it only blows one really short toot.
I am looking for a long and short blast, or a US grafde crossing automatic horn blast sequence.

I am testing out "Xing Ahead Whistle" sign, and several other "Grade Xing"s".

Also, is there an asset that automatically rings the bell on a locomotive ?

Let me know what you find out for the automatic horn assets. I too have tried several track side objects with the same results. Obviously, this is something I would like for AI trains. I don't know if there is a way to make the horn blowing objects blow longer in a prototypical manner, or if you would have to change the horn sound to one that could blow the proper pattern with one touch of the button, in which case said horn would only be useful for AI trains at crossings and not much else. It seems the available horns function as a one quick toot as the loco passes over it. I have also experimented with placing many together, hoping I could blend it into one long blast. This didn't work either, and it ended up producing a long stuttering horn sound.

 

[cascaderailroad]

There are 2 "Defect Detectors" on DLS...possibly you could make many clones of them, and modify the wav files so they are replaced by different hornsounds, or bell sounds ?

 

[bnsf50]

I just spotted this thread. To make the horn sound a long blast by the AI, just remove the tag "2 Part" from the config file.

 

[Norfolkwesternman]

HeHe,let me guess, the three second rule? well if that is the case then whoever is driving the locomotives should be careful or risk be hit with a big fine in the process!

Oh dont worry, 2 million dollars in damage isn't that much really? and what about the lawsuit that follows. not much trouble; just kidding. but they can get hit with major fines. and I like where i live, the trains are about 3 or 4 miles away, and its peacefull for somereason to hear a train blasting its horn from a distance, just not up close. I can also hear their engines running from the river. who agrees that hearing a train whistle from a distance is peaceful and enjoyable?