rcaptain17
New member
Hi There guys, What distance should you have between signails, How many Squares in Surveyiour as I find when I go into driver my trains are slowing down too early? Are My Signals too close?
What Distance should You have between Signals?
- Thread starter rcaptain17
- Start date
That's far too short an interval between signals.Trainz will accept a pretty long length of track as signalled, 4km or more. If there are junctions the signals need to be placed more frequently, but every 100m is 'way too kwose.'
tommylommykins
KUID 224131
A train will 'see' a signal about 300 metres before it passes it.
If a train sees a green signal, it wll try to drive at the speed limit set by you
If a train sees a yellow signal, it will drive at either half the speed limit or 20MPH, whichever is faster
Once a train sees a red signal, it will start slowing down to stop.
I wouldn't really have thought that problems signals 'seeing' each other has too much to do with the problem, however it's hard to tell without more information from rcaptain17
If a train sees a green signal, it wll try to drive at the speed limit set by you
If a train sees a yellow signal, it will drive at either half the speed limit or 20MPH, whichever is faster
Once a train sees a red signal, it will start slowing down to stop.
I wouldn't really have thought that problems signals 'seeing' each other has too much to do with the problem, however it's hard to tell without more information from rcaptain17
No, not every 100m. Have your blocks as long as you want, 500m, 5km, whatever. But, at the end of each block, unless you have two additional signals, you will get slow running because the AI will see a yellow or red signal (assuming the block ahead is not clear) immediately the consist leaves the previous block.
Then, to maximize the distance at which the trains are able to run at full speed, even if they have to stop at the end of the block, you want the three signals as close to each other as is consistent with the trains stopping without over-running the end of the block.
Dinorius_Redundicus
kuid 68213
Laldfordo
I'm no newbie but still pretty ignorant of signalling in Trainz, so forgive me if this is one of those dumb questions.
What sort of signals should be used for the 'two additional signals' before the one that controls the junction at end of the block? What I mean is; there are some that are 'permissive' such as USA05 (a built-in signal under USA/default in TRS2004) and there are others that are not permissive in that they can display an active 'stop' aspect. I think USA04 is one of those (also under USA/default).
If you could elaborate your answer along these lines, it would be a big help.
Thanks
- Dean
I'm no newbie but still pretty ignorant of signalling in Trainz, so forgive me if this is one of those dumb questions.
What sort of signals should be used for the 'two additional signals' before the one that controls the junction at end of the block? What I mean is; there are some that are 'permissive' such as USA05 (a built-in signal under USA/default in TRS2004) and there are others that are not permissive in that they can display an active 'stop' aspect. I think USA04 is one of those (also under USA/default).
If you could elaborate your answer along these lines, it would be a big help.
Thanks
- Dean
Pennsylvania Railroad Practice is.....
The former PRR mainline that runs through my town (I am currently modeling it) uses NEC signals at approximately 1 mile (1.6Km) intervals according to track plans. Speed limit is 40-50 Miles per hour and most trains are 50-100 cars.
Will this work with Trainz AI? I should hope so. Haven't got that far.
The former PRR mainline that runs through my town (I am currently modeling it) uses NEC signals at approximately 1 mile (1.6Km) intervals according to track plans. Speed limit is 40-50 Miles per hour and most trains are 50-100 cars.
Will this work with Trainz AI? I should hope so. Haven't got that far.
The signals should be placed at a distance where the train can be stopped from the first signal that displays a caution aspect (be it adv caution, caution, medium etc etc) to the signal that displays stop. Obviously this is going to vary depending on the trains being used (heavy freight trains take alot longer to stop than small passenger trains) and the speed of the track. Placing signals 100m apart will likely be fine if track speed is 20kph, but if it's 100kph every train will fly straight past the red signal.
I keep signalling to a minimum, but as suggested I place an 'additional' signal about 1km before the 'actual' signals to avoid long lengths of slow running under yellow signals. To avoid visual clutter, I use 'Signal Thingy Invisible' on the DLS.
Andy
On the prototype signal spacing (on double or multiple track lines) is determined by traffic density and line-speed. There must be adequate distance between the driver of the fastest train with the worst braking performance first getting a caution indication (double yellow on UK 4-aspect) and being able to stop at the red. If it's a low traffic line with one or two trains an hour in each direction you could get away with a signal every 3 or 4 miles. On a densely traffic-ed commuter route you might be spacing every 40 chains or so.
Incidentally, I just "broke" TRS signalling from the opposite point of view - see my other thread re long block sections. Seems if you have too long a gap between signals, although you can switch the points the associated signal will not clear. In this case, the block section is @17 miles, although I'm waiting for someone to confirm the maximum distance.
Incidentally, I just "broke" TRS signalling from the opposite point of view - see my other thread re long block sections. Seems if you have too long a gap between signals, although you can switch the points the associated signal will not clear. In this case, the block section is @17 miles, although I'm waiting for someone to confirm the maximum distance.
A quick reply then no more as I am going away for a week. Vern, Tommylommykins said signals can be "seen" at 300metres. I think it is much more than that but obviously less than 17km. Unless someone who knows responds, you could experiment by shortening the 17 until the other signal comes off.
Dean, I have read about these different signal types without really getting my head around the details. I think the Auran AI takes a simple view, just as Tommylommykins describes. Not sure about the Aussie ones, but, afaik, on all the BR ones, red means red. But the double yellow, which would be the third signal, is interpreted by the AI as green, so trains go full speed up to it.
The total stopping distances I gave were 180m on the level and 300m on a 1% down grade, not 100m. These I arrived at by trial and error and the heavy consists do stop from 100kph because I give them plenty of braking power in the locos. I like running lots of consists close behind each other and the "luxury" of long blocks and long distances between signals would slow things down and limit the number of consists I could get on a layout.
Hope that helps.
Dean, I have read about these different signal types without really getting my head around the details. I think the Auran AI takes a simple view, just as Tommylommykins describes. Not sure about the Aussie ones, but, afaik, on all the BR ones, red means red. But the double yellow, which would be the third signal, is interpreted by the AI as green, so trains go full speed up to it.
The total stopping distances I gave were 180m on the level and 300m on a 1% down grade, not 100m. These I arrived at by trial and error and the heavy consists do stop from 100kph because I give them plenty of braking power in the locos. I like running lots of consists close behind each other and the "luxury" of long blocks and long distances between signals would slow things down and limit the number of consists I could get on a layout.
Hope that helps.
Gisa - it works exactly like a signal, but is invisible in 'Driver'. It was developed to solve the problem of trains running long distances under yellow signals with the simplified signalling that the Trainz AI prefers. Placing it a few hundred meters before a 'real' signal allows trains to travel at full speed for most of a block that would otherwise show a yellow signal.
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On the matter of the distance at which the AI 'sees' signals - it can be altered by placing the line
-autopilotsignaldistance=1000
in traizoptions.txt, where '1000' is the required distance in meters. I am currently building a high speed US route and find that the combination of 1000 meter autopilotsignaldistance plus an invisible signal thingy 1000 meters before the 'real' signal gives the AI enough distance to stop in almost all instances except where the 'real' signal must of necessity be on a down-grade. In that case Whitepass' AI_Brake_Fix is the only answer...
Andy
Trainz does not understand the concept of block signalling.
Thanks for the explanation Derrmy. I saw them in another route I downloaded recently and thought...*hmm what do these do?* I am building something similar (although probably not as high-speed as yours :hehe: ) so those might just come in handy...
Have a good one all!
:wave:
Gisa ^^
I saw them in another route I downloaded recently and thought...*hmm what do these do?* I am building something similar (although probably not as high-speed as yours :hehe: ) so those might just come in handy...Have a good one all!
:wave:
Gisa ^^
Most of the time invisible signals are not needed, if you put in buffers or equivalent this acts as a red signal to the AI and if its a siding/terminus platform you would be putting an approach signal at the beginning anyway, so you now have the yellow/red required to give you a green at the signal controlling the block leading to this set up and while the train would be still be traveling to fast to stop you will have to do what the prototype does, put in a sensible speed limit for the area :hehe:
Cheers David
Cheers David
stagecoach
75377
When you have a high speed line 100kph and you use a slow heavy goods train on it the speed of the track can be ignored. You need a wagon with the max permitted speed rule in its config set at say 50kph. This limits the max speed to 50 even though the track is 100. This works very well for keeping long or heavy goods trains to a speed that is easier to slow or stop.
Venn if the signal wont clear then the route is not clear no matter what the distance. Although you changed the point where is the next signal or clear path for the train to take? Do you have an incorrect lever path direction set?
Venn if the signal wont clear then the route is not clear no matter what the distance. Although you changed the point where is the next signal or clear path for the train to take? Do you have an incorrect lever path direction set?
The original question was how far between signals as the AI will only look about 25~30k and if it does not find a signal it returns a red on the depart signal
BUT WAIT there is a cure
Look at the ruler, that is a 'U' shaped track.
Thats over 45k and the AI can see the signal and return a green so the AI driver will do the correct line speed, what I did was to place the short multi-industry half way (I left every setting at the default zero)
It seems that the AI can see the industry and then looks for another 25~30k for a signal
Using this work around is easy and cannot be seen in driver, I don't know if it will work using two industries for an even longer run but if not at least it doubles the block length.
Cheers David
BUT WAIT there is a cure
Look at the ruler, that is a 'U' shaped track.
Thats over 45k and the AI can see the signal and return a green so the AI driver will do the correct line speed, what I did was to place the short multi-industry half way (I left every setting at the default zero)
It seems that the AI can see the industry and then looks for another 25~30k for a signal
Using this work around is easy and cannot be seen in driver, I don't know if it will work using two industries for an even longer run but if not at least it doubles the block length.
Cheers David
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I hear you David - but the original question was also about 'trains slowing down too soon'. If there is a train in the block ahead of your 45km block, then the following train will run at half speed (assuming the speed limit is >40mph) for the entire 45 km. Placing an invisible sig a short distance before the sig at the 45km post will allow full speed running for most of the block...
Andy
Andy