West Side Lumber Company

[Klinger]

Here's a general question. I know we have a few dedicated Shay fan's here.

I was thinking today about starting a 4th expansion of my Timber Ridge route. My plan was to move further North, and slowly transition to about a 1.5% grade

However, I also thought about adding a logging spur at some point. Recently I have gotten very good at creating routes with grades on them. So this time around the expansion won't have to be as flat as others have been. It can also been dozens of miles long (my record is a 5 mile long 3.5% grade).

So, for the spur line, the equipment I would requisition is West Side Lumber Co. 12. Might have to do some repainting to represent a larger fleet of Shay's (1 shay won't cut it).

That got me thinking, what would be a maximum grade for Shay 12? I know the Loop topped out at 4%, Cumbras Pass tops out at 4%, and shays such as 12 can handle grades up to 10% so long as water is still over the crown sheet (backwards running anyone?)

But what would be a good compromise grade that would be realistic for a spur logging line which will shoot about 15 miles off the main line? The first 5 miles will be pretty flat, but the next 10 miles will be extreme.

So anyone got any idea's for that

This expansion will add about 30 miles worth of track if I get my way, if not more, bringing me up to about 95 miles total.

So, any idea's, feel free to post them!

 

[bendorsey]

I'd think the grades would be quite steep as most logging lines moved trackage around now and then after an area was logged out so trackage was temporary at best (translation = pretty rotten, lol).

Sounds like an interesting project.

Ben

 

[Klinger]

I was just thinking Ben, would you be at all interested in Building the Como Roundhouse and turntable? I could use something small like that for the single town where the logging spur will branch off

I've already started laying track (floating track right now lol)

I've got a nice, steady, curvy 1.5% grade going. Managed to test out RGS 41 with about 7 cars going up it (all empty's)

Although the RGS 41 engine spec is messed up, I suppose I should test a K-36

Does anyone know how many cars a K-36 could handle up a 1.5% grade?

 

[Xengeance]

The Sugar Pine Railway (a.k.a. Pickering Lumber Co.), which was more or less several miles north of West Side's terminus at Tuolumne had a six mile stretch near Cow Creek with a 4% grade. Another portion near Schoettgan was 2.5%. In my opinion, you should shoot for grades somewhere between 2 and 6%.

You could also try asking Slugsmasher, he's THE GOD of Narrowgauge logging. If anyone knows about logging grades, it would be him.

 

[bendorsey]

I already made the Como round house in three versions.

kuid2:210518:1107:1
kuid2:210518:1108:1
kuid2:210518:1109:1

All are on the DLS.

Ben

 

[TweetsieDude]

You could replace the engine spec with a c-16 engine speck. They're very similar other than the boiler pressure. I did.

Rock On!
Dusten

 

[slugsmasher]

You could also try asking Slugsmasher, he's THE GOD of Narrowgauge logging. If anyone knows about logging grades, it would be him.

Not sure about that one...

WSLC appears to have mostly 4% or less throughout with short stints of no more than 6%. If you are using my WSLC shay 12 then 7% is about the max it can make it up with an empty train. PM me if you would like to test some alternate engine specs - hint.

 

[Klinger]

realistically, how many empties could I haul up a 6% grade?

I think your model of Shay 12 is the best choice for my small 3 or 4 engine fleet. Ben Neal's Shay's are all 2 Truck shays, and far far smaller then West Side 12. I plan on repainting everything to make it something besides 12, thinking 3 or 4 different numbers right now to service about 10 miles worth of track

 

[JRT]

Remember that most of WSLC locomotive fleet where used else ware before they came to the West Side. So, Shay#12 is different than #15 or #8. So skinning the shay into #8 is like re skinning an F3a and calling it a shay just because it says WSLC#8.

Take a look here, of an picture I found online. This is only some of the differences, many are in the cab, and working of the engine.
http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/TRAIN940/Shay12.png

JRT

 

[Klinger]

I know that JRT.

I've worked on both 12 and 14, but since 8 never ended up at the Railroad Museum, never got my hands on that one.

I'm talking a small, fictional fleet of Shay's, 2 or 3 locomotives all based on the same design as 12.

So I am not trying to create more West Side Shay's. Sort of like my freelanced D&RGW 30" branch

 

[JRT]

I know that JRT.

I've worked on both 12 and 14, but since 8 never ended up at the Railroad Museum, never got my hands on that one.

I'm talking a small, fictional fleet of Shay's, 2 or 3 locomotives all based on the same design as 12.

So I am not trying to create more West Side Shay's. Sort of like my freelanced D&RGW 30" branch

Oh, yea.... sorry.....

Edit: I was looking around in my books about the West Side Shays, and #7 as well as #9 you could re-skin with the #12 model as they all have the tank and windows and a few other things in the same area.

I think there is also, a West Side Climax that someone created for Trainz, can't remember who.

Cheers,
JRT

 

[Klinger]

Little bit of a bump.

I ended up at 6.5% for a good bit, coming down to 6% further up, and then ending up about 4.5% for the majority of the route.

Too steep for rod locomotives.

to my Knowlage JRT, West Side 12 was unique amoung all the West Side Shay's.

While all the others I have looked at, 14, 15, 10, 9, 8, 7, all have a truss rod design. 12 on the other hand, has a massive, steel girder frame, and cast steel truck frames, she is the heaviest of all the West Side Shays, because she orignally came from the Swayne Lumber Company, which ran larger, Class C Shays. She has Piston Valves off from the Willmette Steel and Iron Works, courtesy of the Swayne Lumber Company, which were a problem her whole life (not today thankfully).

Rich, is there any way to change the old girl so that the automatic air brakes will work better in TRS 2006? Right now they only do Release, Application (which stops the engine) and Emergency. I could really use them in Initial mode, to keep the train from running away, and to keep it from stopping as well, the independent brakes are fine, but useless when you have a loaded train going down a 6% grade

I also modified the mesh using PEV's new tool, it now has a whistle steam effect.

 

[TorenHynes]

How much a K-36 can pull

I think that the C&TSRR says on their website that a K-36 can usually pull eight passenger carriages up Cumbres Pass, though sometimes the K-36s can pull nine wagons.

 

[bendorsey]

6.5% isn't too steep for a rod loco (tho its porobably close). The Uintah had rod locos negotiating 7.5% grades.

1. A 2-6-0T (hard to tell from the photo) usually used for passenger service (a single car).
2. Two 2-8-0's (nos 11 and 12). Probably limited to 3 or 4 cars.
3. What appears to be a 2-8-2 (no 30). Again hard to tell from the photo. Also probably limited to 3 or 4 cars.
4. The famous 2-6-6-2T's (no 50 and 51). Max load probably around 15 cars (from a photo in the book).

Curves were so sharp (up to 66 degrees) passenger cars had to have shorter boxcars spaced between them.

According to the chapter on the Uintah in narrow Gauge in the Rockies by Beebe & Clegg the 2-truck shays were limited to 60 tons on the ruling grade (7.5%).

Ben

 

[SPNGTyler]

Another line that was extreme grade for rod engines was the Silverton Northern.

I do not remember what part of the line it was, but I belive the grade was somwhere around 8% (mabie?). Anyway it was so steep that a 2-8-0 could only pull 1 loaded car up it by itself.

 

[Klinger]

Ill have to give the 2-6-6-2T's a try, although I've always wanted them as the later tender bearing locomotives.

 

[Klinger]

I did some testing today.

I repainted two early K-27's (Square tenders, but slide vales and not superheated, (the one's Ben Neal Kitbashed) as Colorado Lumber Company 450 and 460. I was not sure at first if they would make it up my steep grades that at times reach 7%, but so far they have made it almost all the way up the worst part of the grade, double-headed, with about 185 tons worth of passenger cers in tow. Its been pretty slow, only hitting between 6-8 MPH

Its a struggle keeping the train moving, and keeping the boiler pressure up high enough, as well as keeping up with the water levels of two locomotives, but its manageable.

Its actually quite fun to challenge the grade.

 

[montanawestren]

since your useing shays i would like to recomend Argentine Central #6 as well repainted WS #14 as AC #14 like at the colorado RR musem (my favorite shays) also a Pic of #6.

 

[lorenw]

Montana, Klinger's last post on this was over a year ago. The project might be dead.

 

[Thad09]

since your useing shays i would like to recomend Argentine Central #6 as well repainted WS #14 as AC #14 like at the colorado RR musem (my favorite shays) also a Pic of #6.

The engines have already been released along with the route. I guess that someone did not get the message