Using Trainz to Plan a Scale Model Railroad

[dricketts]

I have a friend asking about this topic and frankly I didn't have an answer for him. I've seen posts in the past on this subject but I'd like to get the communities latest feedback.

Is Trainz a viable software product to plan a real life scale model railroad? How does it stack up against other software products for planning model railroads?

 

[sniper297]

I'm inclined to say it's a bad idea. As soon as you create the route in Trainz and start testing it, you're hooked on virtual railroading and you'll never go back to model railroading. :hehe: Seriously, I don't see why not, advantage would be you could test out different track configurations before building the actual layout, see what kind of operational problems there might be with the trackplan. Dangerous part of that is model railroaders always WANT to expand, make it bigger, Trainz allows that and the real world don't. A good sized basement is 24 feet by 40 feet, multiply by 87 to convert HO scale to real feet and it's 2088 x 3480 - not even two baseboards in Trainz. Measure out and mark the limits of the real world space available (multiplied by whatever scale you're modeling in) and try to resist going outside the boundaries of that, it will tell you a lot about how the real thing will work, except for wiring problems and hard to reach places, of course.

 

[sawyer811]

good lord, multiply that by 160 (N-scale) and you get...(*please stand by--poster is attempting to do math; not a good idea*)...you get 3840 times 76800 feet, or 153600 square feet. dang, that's a lot of layout!

*immediately starts planning megalayout for his basement*

 

[dricketts]

Wasn't there some sort of scale conversion tool at one time? You could choose HO, N, or O scale for example.

 

[narrowgauge]

When the trial layout is complete, compute the cost of track, timber, wire and plaster, that will make Trainz look very rosy. Factor the locos and rolling stock into that then check the bank account.

One of the drawbacks of a 'real' layout is that you can't easily move it when you move house.

Peter

 

[normhart]

Trainz 12 supports;

Real Scale
S Scale
TT Scale
Z Scale
#1 Scale
1/2 Scale
G Scale
HO Scale
N Scale
OO Scale
O Scale

:wave:

The route I'm contemplating doing in Trainz is 26 miles long, in Z Scale that's 624 feet. :'( Thus Trainz!

 

[dricketts]

Wasn't there some sort of scale conversion tool at one time? You could choose HO, N, or O scale for example.

I found it. It's at the beginning, when you set your route up. You can choose a scale.

The deal is my friend just doesn't get v-scale He's very computer savvy and uses software on his HO route. He's having trouble thinking outside the box and believes the only value of Trainz is planning HO or O scale routes.

Granted there might be some value there but I don't think he really gets it. This is 1:1 scale. I've tried to explain to him that most of our v-scalers also model my traditional means.

 

[Dermmy]

Trainz is not really a model railway planning tool. The main problem is geometry. What makes or breaks a model railway is whether the pointwork fits, and the most common cause for a layout not working to 'plan' is underestimating the length needed for pointwork.

The problem with using Trainz is that the geometry of the turnouts won't match any specific brand of model railway trackwork. It won't match hand-laid track either.

Specific model railway design software comes with track libraries which duplicate exactly the space required and geometry of specific model railway track pieces. Trainz doesn't.

Of course there is nothing to stop somebody creating model-railway specific fixed track for Trainz (licensing?), nor is there any reason why you couldn't use trainz to rough out a rough sketch of a proposed model railway. But if somebody is trying to work out whether a specific idea will fit along that 16'6" garage wall, Trainz ain't the tool...

Andy.

 

[dricketts]

Trainz is not really a model railway planning tool. The main problem is geometry. What makes or breaks a model railway is whether the pointwork fits, and the most common cause for a layout not working to 'plan' is underestimating the length needed for pointwork.

The problem with using Trainz is that the geometry of the turnouts won't match any specific brand of model railway trackwork. It won't match hand-laid track either.

Specific model railway design software comes with track libraries which duplicate exactly the space required and geometry of specific model railway track pieces. Trainz doesn't.

Of course there is nothing to stop somebody creating model-railway specific fixed track for Trainz (licensing?), nor is there any reason why you couldn't use trainz to rough out a rough sketch of a proposed model railway. But if somebody is trying to work out whether a specific idea will fit along that 16'6" garage wall, Trainz ain't the tool...

Andy.

Very well put Dermmy but what is pointwork?

 

[captainkman]

Very well put Dermmy but what is pointwork?

Pointwork is all the switches/junctions on a layout. The things in Trainz with the green/red arrows above them. :hehe:

 

[RPearson]

I would say Dermmy is right on as usual. I use Cadrail and while I've designed a few model layouts with it I've never built one from them. I now use it to design full scale routes for Trainz. It works in full scale as easy as it works in any model scale but that's getting a little off topic. Accurate geometry is important and that's difficult to get right in Surveyor and very easy in Cadrail. You can use accurate templates of turnouts available from all the manufacturers of model track in the scale you want to work in.

If you wanted to do that in Trainz you'd have a lot of 3d modeling work to create what you needed. If you roll your own trackwork well making accurate custom turnouts to match your own practice is a piece of cake. If you use snap track to any extent or flex track or a mix well templates of all the track available from track manufacturers is also available - that as well as the turnouts comes with Cadrail as libraries of figures that can just be dragged into the drawing. And if you lay you own then just draw it - no need to worry about length of individual pieces.

Of course you have all the cad tools available to create circular arcs, spiral easments, tangent track with precise geometry and locations. You can copy, move, rotate, offset, extend, trim, scale, divide, measure and so on and so on. The list includes a lot of things that surveyor should be capable of but isn't. Working in cad is ideal when the design just isn't working right and you need to move things around a bit to fit within the constraints of the real area you have to work with. It can be a painful process to do the same in Surveyor.

When you're done you can get listings of all the track work necessary to complete the layout. You can even print full size templates of any or all portions of the layout.

I don't see Surveyor really competing with that.

On the other hand if you want to see how the trains would operate on the layout after it is designed then building the route in Surveyor - full size which is what you actually do when you select any of the model scales in Surveyor - might be something to consider. You can take the cad dwg you made and scale it to full size with a few key stokes or not as you like. Use it as the guide to build the route from. I would - since I had a cad file to work from - export a dxf file of the route and make a trk file directly from it but most people seem to enjoy doing it the hard way.

While Cadrail and other model rr design software have some minimal capability to run trains around the layout they really can't compete with Trainz when it comes to operating and visualizing the finished route.

Multiple level layouts which are common in model rr design present some challenges when designing them with model rr cad software but that's nothing compared to the challenge of building them in Surveyor.

Bob Pearson

 

[captainkman]

Keep in mind that we have the Junction Kit by Andi06, and the FT- tracks that are curves and straights. The Junction Kit also includes straights.

 

[RPearson]

Keep in mind that we have the Junction Kit by Andi06, and the FT- tracks that are curves and straights. The Junction Kit also includes straights.

Still can't really compete with what you can do with a cad program as a design tool.

Bob Pearson

 

[RFAX]

I've been trying to design my 12x16' basement layout using Trainz because tools like XtrakCad don't give you a 3D layout view and being a modelling rookie I have a difficult time visualizing the operator's view of the layout from XtrakCad's top-down 2D view. But I haven't had much success, particularly because of the lack of a fixed geometry track library in Trainz of things like my #6 Atlas turnouts. Granted, I have not invested that much time into the attempt. Would be nice if there was a way to export an XtrakCad layout into Trainz...

Mike

 

[sniper297]

http://www.internettrains.com/merch...en=CTGY&Store_Code=IT&Category_Code=VDCSOFABR

Abracadata has been making model railroad design software since the '90s, again the first couple weeks with MSTS got me hooked so I never went back to model railroading, so I can't say how good any of that is.

http://www.nlhs.com/hangarno.htm

That was built for zeppelins, interior is 807 feet by 262 feet. When I was at Lakehurst 30 years ago they had a 400 foot long mockup of an aircraft carrier flight deck in it used for training plane handlers, dunno if it's still there. Z scale is 1/220, so build a Z scale layout in that hangar and you would get a scale 10.9 miles by 33.6 miles. Big model railroad, but nowhere near what's possible in train simulators even if expense is no object.