Urgent News: The Catskill Mountain Railroad Needs Our Help

[njmetsfan]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/cats...s-issues-with-cmrr-demands-ra/354205054682241


Pardon the Interruption but there is something foul in the air in New York State Tonight. Mike Hein, Ulster County Executive, is hell bent on dismantling the rail line connecting Kingston to the rest of the Catskill Mountain Railroad. The company has worked hard and has expanded shuttle service in Kingston but Mr. Hein wants to turn rail line that can expand the economy of the county into another bike trail. He has blocked the rail line using dump trucks as some may know (which I believe is a violation of federal law) and has banned members of the CMRR from serving on the council (another violation of federal law and possibly the Constitution) and will not back down! We as railfans, foamers, rail enthusiasts, whatever we are called must band together and support the CMRR and tell Mr. Hein that we are in this for the long haul! Share this and tell the Ulster County board we got the CMRR's back!

 

[RRSignal]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/cats...s-issues-with-cmrr-demands-ra/354205054682241


Pardon the Interruption but there is something foul in the air in New York State Tonight. Mike Hein, Ulster County Executive, is hell bent on dismantling the rail line connecting Kingston to the rest of the Catskill Mountain Railroad. The company has worked hard and has expanded shuttle service in Kingston but Mr. Hein wants to turn rail line that can expand the economy of the county into another bike trail. He has blocked the rail line using dump trucks as some may know (which I believe is a violation of federal law) and has banned members of the CMRR from serving on the council (another violation of federal law and possibly the Constitution) and will not back down! We as railfans, foamers, rail enthusiasts, whatever we are called must band together and support the CMRR and tell Mr. Hein that we are in this for the long haul! Share this and tell the Ulster County board we got the CMRR's back!

I don't visit FB pages, but, probably the best thing to do is to form a coalition, get some money together, and sue Hein for his alleged violations and/or to block any attempt to create another awful bike trail. Unfortunately, rails-to-trails is one of the worst ideas ever conceived for preserving the future of transit, in part because once converted to a trail, trail advocates and NIMBYs use lawsuits or executive power to prevent trails from being converted back to rails. The key is to prevent rails from ever being converted to trails in the first place, and using trail advocate's own tactics is a good way to do just that.

It also wouldn't hurt for such a coalition to lobby state lawmakers to enact a ban on the conversion of rail assets to trails and, although this probably is pushing it, destruction of existing ones or, at least, an end to any maintenance programs for rail-trails.

 

[opus722]

Don't get me wrong now - rail to trail programs can bring in some revenue and tourism, but I think a heritage railway would bring in even more, especially when it is operated by a private company. Leave the rail to trail stuff to clean up right of ways that were ditched in the 70s and will never see a train again in the foreseeable future. I'm also reading about some of that track being damaged during Irene and FEMA granted money to repair it, but the county, being the party responsible for it, is sitting on thier hands and not doing anything about it. That seems really iffy to me. I know nothing of New York local politics, but does this guy have anything to personally gain from this trail? He seems hellbent on making it.

 

[cascaderailroad]

snip~does this guy have anything to personally gain from this trail? He seems hellbent on making it.

His million dollar house, multiple automobiles, a boat, a cheufer, and a municipal supplied automobile ... Fat Cat

He'll find out that the "Bike Trail" will generate tourists, buying a tank of gasoline, two bottles of water down at the "Quickie Mart" and a quick bit to eat at the local "Bugar King" !

 

[opus722]

Forgot to add this before- I'm sure the CMRR's lawyers have been up and down this, but in the past rail to trail initiatives were defeated since, more often than not, railroads were built on easements that specified that they were to be used solely for the railroad. Once the lines are gone then the easement is no more and they default back to the private landowners. In that situation the state would have to use eminent domain to purchase the land from whoever it goes to. Not a cheap or quick legal process just for a trail and that is assuming that the landowner even takes the buyout without a fight. A lot of folks are not too keen with trails cutting through their property and, if the estimates for this trail are anywhere near accurate, this one will be no exception. Normally, anti-railtrail people are my archenemies, as they usually want to remove the property from the public and divide up amongst private interests again, but in this case some of their tactics might have to be borrowed.

 

[sawyer811]

I'm with the iffy part of this: The Catskill boys have shown that they're more than diligent over the years working to restore service on the line, what's left of it anyway (If I recall correctly the northern end is already a trail, right past where Rip Van Winkle Flyer ends its northbound run on the Ulster and Delaware). They tried to pull this same trick on the Adirondack Scenic recently too...I've got the trains magazine news article somewhere in my files.

Frankly, if a private group is shown this level of determination to restore the entire line, I'd have to say let them keep it. Of course, politocrats (as I call them) don't care about the future, just their short-term gains and bank accounts. But Cascaderailroad, watch the Burger King insults; my Grandfather (and my mentor in all things train) loves that place!

 

[boc61]

Just sic Chuck "lens lice" Schumer on the guy.

 

[rjhowie]

What a des[icable way to treat a heritage organisation and a kind of living bit of history and even more so having ran for so long. Just shows how talking about principles for others in the world it is ignored at home. Not to detract too much from the thread but the matter of dumping things to try an stop trains nack in the 1960's when the Scottish Borders Waverley line was axed we had an opposite situation. People came out at a level crossing and blocked a passenger train! It took the local MP to use a bit of savvy with the police so the train could continue (!). The long term good news is that line is being re-opened now for over 30 miles of the route. Anyway that situation at Catskill is a disgrace and it does show that those with money and power do not care much of a damn except to keep power and money in their pockets and stuff the people.

 

[sawyer811]

Indeed RJ: sometimes I wonder how it is possible for England/the UK to get it so right, with a thriving heritage railroad community, while here in the states, we can barely keep what we've got going. You guys are building long-lost steam loco classes: 2-8-2 P1s, 4-4-2s on the bluebell railway, BR 3MT 2-6-2Ts, you name it! Here, we can barely keep steam alive; the only operable steam loco (other than amusment park steam engines, which I don't count) in my home state of Missouri has been down ever since the new boiler laws went into effect in 2000; she's a sad sight, all in pieces, like some half-completed modeling project.

 

[rjhowie]

Spot on there 100% sawyer811 and it is greatly different. Maybe we are more fortunate in the heritage sense as the railway world was invented here (?). Neither do the money men automatically get away with much. Rail here has never been out of the public eye or history and as you correctly point out heritage rail is a big thing here and some even extend! Lines all over the country with the vast majority being standard gauge although narrow is not overlooked! One small non-standard gauge rail line that closed in a former landed estate in Ulster was uplifted and taken a bit further north to the coast and re-erected there near the world famous giant's Causeway. From time to time there are rail supporters associations who get permission to run steam trains on the national network. Every year when I took Boys' Brigade camps over to N. Ireland our Boys were fascinated to se a steam train at the local station a couple of minutes away which came up for a day trip then went down to Belfast over 60 miles away on the main line. It had about 7 or 8 full coaches and was one a group owned by the Irish railway Preservation Socy over there. Whether England, Wales, Scotland or Ulster you can always get to a preservation venue and I do feel for you being so hamstrung by petty restrictions, officialdom and people with too much money and power.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Does anyone have any updates on "Ulster County executive Mike Hein" and his plans to terminate the RR lease 2 years early, and tear up all the trackage, so he can create a rails to trails bicycle trail ?

 

[JCitron]

Does anyone have any updates on "Ulster County executive Mike Hein" and his plans to terminate the RR lease 2 years early, and tear up all the trackage, so he can create a rails to trails bicycle trail ?

The last I heard in the beginning of the year at the Big-E was the Catskill Railroad was still fighting him. They were soliciting support at the train show for financial support and for petition signatures which I duly signed.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Surely there is something radically wrong with this guy's head, for him to hate RR's so much ... Perhaps he never got a train set running round the Christmas twee, or his dad was killed at a HO model RR layout derailment ... But he is dead set at ripping up all the trackage ... for a rails to trails plan that has no budget, no funds, no blueprints, no backers.

A rails to trails bike path would cut tourism, and income from it would be zilch !

What is holding the EBT RR up is real estate tax's, and paying for leasing of the land ... I think tourist RR's should not be taxed at all, aside from income tax.

 

[JCitron]

Surely there is something radically wrong with this guy's head, for him to hate RR's so much ... Perhaps he never got a train set running round the Christmas twee, or his dad was killed at a HO model RR layout derailment ... But he is dead set at ripping up all the trackage ... for a rails to trails plan that has no budget, no funds, no blueprints, no backers.

A rails to trails bike path would cut tourism, and income from it would be zilch !

What is holding the EBT RR up is real estate tax's, and paying for leasing of the land ... I think tourist RR's should not be taxed at all, aside from income tax.

I think it has to do with real estate development. This guy is a big builder/contractor who wants their land.

John

 

[Railwoodman]

Yea, and he knows best syndrum. From what I've read he's probably got an angel of the state to pay for his part of real estate. A king knows best

 

[Bluewater]

I remember reading this article and quite frankly I'm surprised the State of New York hasn't done something about this guy. The Catskill Mountain RR has probably been around longer than he has. In my own opinion, an excursion line will definitely bring in more tourists (repeat tourists as well) than a bike trail would.

Kinda wish they kept the ex-CR South Haven Line intact for some excursions from here in Kalamazoo to the beaches of "glowing" South Haven (Palisades Nuclear Plant reference )