TurfX problem

[Sek_Hakuna]

I have 3 TurfX layers on my route. When I create a 4th layer then click to lay down some more grass, the previous grass disappears. And not just in the spot I click, the entire route. Any ideas?

Randall

 

[philskene]

Possibly not what you want to hear, but on my current route I have five different types of grasses and all seems well.

 

[hiawathamr]

I had that happen for me as well, and its not the entire route (at least from my experience), its just the entire baseboard goes bare, and this was just 2 sets of grass.
What you'll have to do is try not to go onto the next baseboard as the grass on that baseboard might disappear as well and then you'll have to put the grass back down. It'll be best to make frequent saves when doing this, and take your time when highlighting the next baseboard connection.
Hope this helps.

Cheers

 

[FootplatePhil]

I have logged a ticket with the HelpDesk for this issue. The problem started as discussed above (any newly defined layer could not be applied to baseboards with existing TurfFX, although things were fine on 'fresh' baseboards). Unfortunately this problem developed further, to a point where just defining a new layer would cause random deletion of TurfFX across the route. I sent the HelpDesk my route and they were able to see the problem. Further development of my route is pretty much on hold until this issue is resolved.

 

[Sek_Hakuna]

Thanks to all for the replies. I really like the Turfx Grass. Makes the routes more realistic looking for sure. I haven't experimented with the clutter fx much.

I hope they get the issue resolved soon.

Randall

 

[FootplatePhil]

Thanks to all for the replies. I really like the Turfx Grass. Makes the routes more realistic looking for sure. I haven't experimented with the clutter fx much.

I hope they get the issue resolved soon.

Randall

I agree that TurfFX can look really good. Unfortunately, in my experience, Clutter FX suffer from the same issue.

I also hope this is resolved soon. For me TurfFX and Clutter were the big selling points of TRS2019.

 

[JCitron]

I found that saving and reloading the route helps and you can continue putting down the different layers of grass as you wish. I think it has something to do with running out of memory, or the video card.

 

[FootplatePhil]

I found that saving and reloading the route helps and you can continue putting down the different layers of grass as you wish. I think it has something to do with running out of memory, or the video card.

The problem occurs for me as soon as I open the route for editing, from a fresh program start. I have 16 Gig of RAM, 8 Gig of video memory, and usually not many other 'user' apps running. My route is pretty big (200 kms end to end), but no where near as big as some others out there.

Note that there is no issue when adding more of an already defined layer. The issue arises if you try and define and put down a new layer.

 

[philskene]

I gotta say that with the PBR textures, TurfFX grasses, shadows, reflections TRS19 is begining to look quite good:

The grass effects, in particular, really make it so much more realistic, even though I have to admit it's a damn lot of hard work on any route more than one baseboard in size. The above uses four TurfFX textures -- brown short and long, and yellow short and long. Elsewhere I have grain, long, making five TurfFX effects in total. As far as I can tell the impact on frame rates is minimal.

 

[FootplatePhil]

I gotta say that with the PBR textures, TurfFX grasses, shadows, reflections TRS19 is begining to look quite good:

The grass effects, in particular, really make it so much more realistic, even though I have to admit it's a damn lot of hard work on any route more than one baseboard in size. The above uses four TurfFX textures -- brown short and long, and yellow short and long. Elsewhere I have grain, long, making five TurfFX effects in total. As far as I can tell the impact on frame rates is minimal.

I agree that when they work, they really add to the realism. I don't think that is in dispute. Everything becomes much more 3D. Its not really the thrust of this thread though.

I am curious. You say you use 4 (and in an earlier post, 5) TurFX layers without issue. Were these defined right at the start of your route scenicing, before any TurfFX application? Or do you apply a few layers, then decide you need another (and define and apply it)? The latter scenario seems to be where the issues arise.

 

[philskene]

Phil --

Sorry about the confused wording. Elsewhere = elsewhere on the route. So on this route -- brown long/short + yellow long/short + grain long = five.

I configured all five right at the onset, before adding any TurfFX to the route. You think that this might be the difference between success and failure? If so it's certainly worth while knowing.

Phil

 

[FootplatePhil]

Phil --

Sorry about the confused wording. Elsewhere = elsewhere on the route. So on this route -- brown long/short + yellow long/short + grain long = five.

I configured all five right at the onset, before adding any TurfFX to the route. You think that this might be the difference between success and failure? If so it's certainly worth while knowing.

Phil

Yes, that's good to know. We seemed to have narrowed the problem down a bit. Practically it doesn't help me much though !

 

[Paulsw2]

I suspect it is important to define your TurfX layers at the outset and try not to add to them later. I've created a one-baseboard template with the layers set up to act as the basis of future routes.

Paul

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

We've been investigating this further and cannot reproduce the issue as described in 105096. I realize QA did say they reproduced the issue previously, but it may be that the issue has since been fixed, or there is a step missing in the test case that the dev team are attempting, or perhaps it is something to do with hardware. Here is the dev test case:

1. Load test route (Wedden), everything looks ok
2. Open edit dialog, click the + to Add a new effect layer
3. Enter a new, unique name, click the Tick and the Add dialog closes
4. Turffx disappears from entire route temporarily
5. Wait a few seconds, Turffx reappears across the entire route

If you're still able to reproduce this issue, please provide the missing steps.

 

[FootplatePhil]

We've been investigating this further and cannot reproduce the issue as described in 105096. I realize QA did say they reproduced the issue previously, but it may be that the issue has since been fixed, or there is a step missing in the test case that the dev team are attempting, or perhaps it is something to do with hardware. Here is the dev test case:

1. Load test route (Wedden), everything looks ok
2. Open edit dialog, click the + to Add a new effect layer
3. Enter a new, unique name, click the Tick and the Add dialog closes
4. Turffx disappears from entire route temporarily
5. Wait a few seconds, Turffx reappears across the entire route

If you're still able to reproduce this issue, please provide the missing steps.

Hi Tony. Thanks for taking the time to look at this. I am still able to reproduce the issue in Weddin in TRS2019 Platinum, following the instruction I outlined in the ticket...

1. Find an area with a number of wheat fields and stubble alongside track. For my testing I use the long straight to the north west of Canowindra. You can jump to Canowindra using bookmark 8. Wheat fields can be identified by the use of the texture 'grain' (see the images in the link included below). All the wheat fields close to track have had the TurfFX layer 'TFX Crop 1' applied. Since you have the route you should be able to see the settings I have used for the existing layers.

2. Once in position note that the TurFX layer is evenly applied over the 'grain' texture.

3. In the Topology/Advanced tab select 'Edit/Add effect layers'

4. From the 'Effect Layers' panel select the '+' button to add a new layer.

5. Enter a name for the layer (for example 'Test'), and select 'Effect Type' = 'Clutter

6. Select the tick button.

7. It is at this point large sections of the previously applied layers disappear.

8. Move around the area in Surveyor and check the nearby wheat fields (you can leave the 'Effect Layers' window open, 'can out', or just accept the defaults). Note that not all of the TurfFX disappears, but a large proportion does.

Again, before....

After...

It does NOT appear to be a 'temporary' issue. And 'Undo' does not undo the problem. If I save and reopen the route the effect (or lack of effect) is permanent.


Note:
I have been able to reproduce the issue with 100% consistency. It occurs in both my installations... in build 105096, running on my 8 Gig RAM I5/GTX 1050Ti laptop, and also in build 105100, running on my 16 Gig RAM I7/GTX 1070 desktop. Both machines have all recent Windows 10 and Nvidia patches installed. I run a 'vanilla' TRS2019 config, with only TRS2019 base plus TANE, and WeddinNSW dependency (DLS) assets installed.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

Thanks for the extra information - excellent repro.

Task added: "Adding a new effect layer wipes existing turffx layers from large routes that have lots of turffx already"

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

Also I've moved this post from Footplatephil here as it is a more appropriate place to respond:

1. Areas of TurfFX applied (and visible) in Surveyor do not always display in Driver. The areas that have TurfFX displayed in Driver depends on the direction of travel, and the density of application.
>>
We're not seeing anything unexpected here. Camera angle and zoom range will definitely make things look different, but that doesn't sound like what you are describing. Screenshots and more details may help.

2. TurfFX defined after application of the initially defined set of TurfFX can only be applied to 'untreated' based boards. If you try to apply them to areas with existing TurfFX the existing TurfFX in that area are wiped out. I have seen a couple of threads on this one.
>>
This sounds very like the same issue in #3 (so covered in the same bug report). Please recheck when we release the update.

3. Possibly an extension of 2. Once a large area of TurfFX has been applied (hundreds of base boards ?), any new definition wipes out existing TurfFX across the entire route in a seemingly random manor. This one I reported to the Helpdesk, and it was acknowledged as a problem.
>>
As above

4. When merging routes only the TurfFX in the base route survive the merge.
>>
Merging Turffx layers are not currently supported in Route Merge. (It was news to me too). There is a significant amount of work to add support, and it is on our to do list.

Fwiw, the new bulk add tools (currently in beta testing with Trainz Plus members) do make a big difference to the ease of adding effect layers (e.g. by bulk-adding an effect layer to a specific texture).

 

[FootplatePhil]

Hi Tony,

With regards Issue 1: I believe it may have something to do with the amount of TurfFX recently displayed. Hence the direction of travel can affect the outcome. As a work-around when building my Weddin V4 route I 'ploughed in' a number of crops in some areas to reduce the overall TurfFX in that area. However I have managed to find one area I missed in the WeddinV4 route currently on the DLS. I will attempt to explain the steps I have taken in producing the below sample images....

1. I set up a test session, and placed a test consist (the Fairmont trike) just north of the road crossing at Bendick Murrell. (Bookmark 3 will take you to Bendick Murrell). I instructed Harry to Navigate to @South Staging, and set the camera mode to the lineside view. 3 minutes or so into the session a bald patch is visible in the TurfFX wheat crop, as follows...

Lineside Camera

Roaming Camera

2. I saved the session at that point, and exited.

3. I selected 'Drive Session' to restart the saved session, and hit 'P' to pause as soon as the session started.

4. From the same location as used for the previous images I captured the following. Note that the TurfFX now appear as they should. This is how also how they appear when you load the route into Surveyor.

Lineside camera

Roaming camera

5. In order to more precisely identify the location of my test images I also 'snipped' an image of the Map View at that point (for some reason the inbuilt image capture tool does not capture the map view). Harry is driving the trike.

I hope this info helps your team identify and resolve the issue. As I said, there is a work around... just don't use too much TurfFX in any given area. However this is a bit limiting.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

Ok - sounds like a similar situation to another test case we had with near camera turf not showing at various times (in driver or surveyor). This has been fixed in the latest Trainz Plus beta (105674). That beta is nearing release with very few outstanding issues remaining, so I would suggest you patch using the Trainz Plus Beta stream to check out that it is resolved.

If you're already on that version, please let us know. (Note that "[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)][FONT=&quot]Turffx is completely wiped when creating a new clutter layer " is not fixed yet).[/FONT][/COLOR]

 

[FootplatePhil]

Ok - sounds like a similar situation to another test case we had with near camera turf not showing at various times (in driver or surveyor). This has been fixed in the latest Trainz Plus beta (105674). That beta is nearing release with very few outstanding issues remaining, so I would suggest you patch using the Trainz Plus Beta stream to check out that it is resolved.

If you're already on that version, please let us know. (Note that "[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]Turffx is completely wiped when creating a new clutter layer " is not fixed yet).[/COLOR]

OK, thanks Tony. I don't have Trainz Plus, I have TRS2019 Platinum. So I guess I will have to wait for Titanium.