TS12 SP1 HF4 - Is it worth upgrading?

[JCitron]

As someone who had those awful freezes, long validation sessions, and other ghastly problems with 61388, I'll say go for it. Yes, go for it. There are some great features such as merging finally working after all these years with TS12, splines you can straighten from the splines pull-out - the one Vern mentioned, and other little tweaks.

There are many causes of data validation not including the network problems, and are related to the local install. With the help of the community, I did some really hard system and soul searching to find the underlying causes of my system and program failures. It turns out that my problems stemmed from many other sources outside of TS12 61388. I'm not saying that server issues didn't help matters and caused some issues at the same time, which only confused things more. I had some corrupted assets caused by a marginal hard drive. After replacing the hard disk, and reinstalling Trainz and my data, I cleaned up the corrupted data by redownloading or installing from backups the assets that I had to replace. Now I am able to remain up and running with no problems. Since that time, outside of the big server glitch, I have had no database validation sessions to speak of other than those caused by installing third-party assets, and then they're pretty short.

Having said this though, I highly recommend backing up everything somewhere else before upgrading. There are external USB 3.0 backup drives available for well under $100.00 now at BestBuy and other retail outlets. These drives are worth their weight in gold and then some when it comes to stuff like this. Just keep in mind that no data is really safe anywhere, and having multiple copies of it lessens the chances of losing everything. Having an external copy in another safe location lessens the total loss even more, but asking someone to archive Trainz data offsite is a bit over the top I would think unless they do this for a living.

John

 

[pdkoester]

If it helps I didn't actually go through the patching process which seems to be where all the not-so-fun stuff is happening. I just grabbed my userdata folder and moved that someplace safe. I removed the old TS12, complete uninstall and then I just installed the 61388 build direct. Once it was in I moved my userdata folder back and did an EDR. I was back up and running within an hour or two.

Mike

* Also I keep TRS on it's own SSD drive. Certainly makes things easier when it comes to moving/upgrading/backing up etc.

This is exactly the way I do it, move user's data, remove TS12, install it with 61388 build (not upgrade old), move user's data back. After the EDR, you will want to check for some content that will need minor tweaking, like the .WAV files in some items that were not up to compliance.

Paul

 

[ex-railwayman]

If it helps I didn't actually go through the patching process which seems to be where all the not-so-fun stuff is happening. I just grabbed my userdata folder and moved that someplace safe. I removed the old TS12, complete uninstall and then I just installed the 61388 build direct. Mike

So, don't we have to install all the other patches that we've collected over the years as well then, from 46957 to 47059 to 48249 to 49922 to 57720 to 61388, I never knew that, why didn't someone tell us, we've all been doing it wrong.....

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

 

[JCitron]

So, don't we have to install all the other patches that we've collected over the years as well then, from 46957 to 47059 to 48249 to 49922 to 57720 to 61388, I never knew that, why didn't someone tell us, we've all been doing it wrong.....

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

If you have an older install and did incremental upgrades, yes this is the way it's done. But... If you purchased a new download version, it comes with 61388 already inclusive, meaning that all the incremental patches are in there, right to the present version. Recently I did that and no longer use my boxed set to do the install. With the one-click, well almost a one-click, the install goes in, I then copy my data over from my previous install, or backup in my case, and then do an EDR overnight.

John

 

[ZecMurphy]

As a few others have noted, installing TS12 SP1 separately is generally a good way to go. At a minimum, it allows you to progressively import the content that you want, rather than have a large chunk of content to go through (note, copying the 'original' and 'local' folders between installs is NOT recommended ).

Please ensure that you have at least 1-2GB of free space for the TS12 SP1 installer to run, it needs to unpack and copy the large 'ja' files for the built-in content. If you have the digital download edition from simulator central, then your download links will already be providing the TS12 installer with SP1 as well.


Also, Vern, the ability to delete baseboards from Satellite view was a bug that was repaired in SP1 (albeit a handy bug), and was repaired due to issues that it could cause (keep in mind that there is an issue with accuracy of many tools when you are zoomed too far out as well).

REgards

 

[Vern]

Also, Vern, the ability to delete baseboards from Satellite view was a bug that was repaired in SP1 (albeit a handy bug), and was repaired due to issues that it could cause (keep in mind that there is an issue with accuracy of many tools when you are zoomed too far out as well).

Bug, or useful feature? It already comes with a warning that a rogue delete can't be undone (well strictly you could exit without saving) but I personally found it much more useful and easier to orientate when zoomed out in overview than trying to delete tiles from the normal working view.

One other disadvantage of SP1 HF4 though, is erratic spline behaviour if you split a section - either track or road. It doesn't maintain the relative gradient either side of the new spline point, but places it back at ground level.

 

[Falcus]

@Zec

Yea, I'd have to second Vern's opinion on the Baseboard Deletion "Bug".... If that was a bug, can I ask to go back to organic please? I mean, we can merge routes now and far better then before, but have you seen some of the C-Rap that DEM (At least the older versions) likes to throw at us? I have 2 Maps, Tacoma to Everett WA, and another title Everett to Blaine but is actually Edmonds to Blaine, so I ended up with something like 50-100 square miles of Overlap, and to make it more confusing the second map is shifted by half a base board (E-W)...... I tried for a couple weeks at one point to merge those in some kind of way that made sense, the second week was spent entirely deleting Baseboards by hand, and at one point I looked at the Overview and gave up because I had barely scratched what had to be deleted.....

Tack on that the map Im currently working on could use roughly a third of its (Guesstimating here) roughly 3-4000 baseboards trimmed to streamline it, and this gets to be a ridiculous proposition doing it Ground level Line of sight.......

Falcus

 

[JCitron]

I agree that removing baseboards from a far distance is helpful, I also got bit a couple of times with the bug too and ended up deleting what I didn't want to in error. This meant I had to go back to my most recent save and pickup where I left off. Luckily I was smart and remembered to save after clipping out a section and not have to start over.

@Falcus,

I have run into situations like this as well even with NGS generated DEM downloads. I had to do the same with a bit of trimming. I created a bit map image (screen snapshot) of the overview map in the merge, and then traced off what I wanted to clip. on the image.

Then I went into the candidate map and marked off, using some brightly-colored textures (I think I chose purple or something really bright like it) and traced along the edges of the baseboards that needed trimming. It took quite a bit of time as I retested the fit periodically as I trimmed boards. There's nothing like measuring a gazillion times then cutting once.

John

 

[ex-railwayman]

If you have an older install and did incremental upgrades, yes this is the way it's done. But... If you purchased a new download version, it comes with 61388 already inclusive, meaning that all the incremental patches are in there, right to the present version. Recently I did that and no longer use my boxed set to do the install. With the one-click, well almost a one-click, the install goes in, I then copy my data over from my previous install, or backup in my case, and then do an EDR overnight.
John

Ahhh, righto, thanks for that info. John, much obliged.

Cheerz. ex.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi All
We may look at re-introducing it in future to some degree if we can improve the precision and ensure that it will be stable. However as noted before, it was actually a bug that needed to be resolved (it was linked to several other issues related to attempting to use various tools in satellite view).

Regards

 

[Falcus]

Well, let me know when its reintroduced.... Because, Hardware Gods permitting, I'd love to make a Seattle Sub-Division Map..... I could actually just about do that if I merged the two Maps I mentioned, though I'd be missing probably some 50-100 miles or so south of Tacoma..... I currently have Track from Tukwila to Edmonds, though the only scenicing I've done is in Seattle Proper at this point (Bar the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, I just HAD to see how Ben's Model fit the DEM, lol).

Falcus

 

[pfx]

Main reason? The ghastly mess of CMP 3.7 which freezes at the slightest misplaced mouse click and, despite what the N3V cheerleaders might say, does not suddenly start working again after a few minutes or a few hours.

I had delayed installing TS12 SP1 but after buying a new drive, decided there was no harm in doing the installation totally seperately of my existing TS12. So far, I have been fortunate enough not to encounter any problems and everything seems to work fine (touch wood). I've downloaded a massive amount of assets via CM. Otherwise, I haven't made much use of it thus far so my opinion may change at a later date.

That phrase, being made to eat your own words now springs to mind. Having used TS12 SP1 for a couple of weeks, I've now discovered that CM 3.7 appears to crash almost consistently, for various reasons. Otherwise, things are fine but that's not much use when I can't add any content. I'm not giving up though.

 

[Scottish]

If you have the digital download edition from simulator central, then your download links will already be providing the TS12 installer with SP1 as well.

Does this mean that I can download for a second time my legacy order for TS12 (which was before any service packs) from the download links in my Auran Profile pages? Will this download be free of charge and will it already contain SP1 + hotfixes?

If this is correct, then I think I will do a clean install and only add some of the content I have.

Scottish

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Morning Scottish
That's correct, if the order is in the 'legacy order history' (the old auran.com shop's order history), then you'll have full access to the digital download here. If you have issues with this, please contact the helpdesk so as we can look into your order for you (we may need to recreate it in simulator central for you).

Regards

 

[Scottish]

Good Morning Scottish
That's correct, if the order is in the 'legacy order history' (the old auran.com shop's order history), then you'll have full access to the digital download here. If you have issues with this, please contact the helpdesk so as we can look into your order for you (we may need to recreate it in simulator central for you).

Regards

Thanks Zec,

I will try to download it from the 'legacy order history' links in my Planet Auran profile pages. I will post the result in this thread for everybody's information and if I have any problems I will contact the helpdesk.

Scottish

 

[Scottish]

Thanks Zec,

I will try to download it from the 'legacy order history' links in my Planet Auran profile pages. I will post the result in this thread for everybody's information and if I have any problems I will contact the helpdesk.

Scottish

For information, the download links in the 'legacy order history' in the Planet Auran profile pages are still operational.

However they install build 46957 which was the original build at the time of my order. Therefore it is still necessary to download and install all the patches and hotfixes to bring TS12 up to build 61388.

I was hoping that it would be 61388 to avoid all the time it takes to run through all the patches.

Scottish

 

[Lataxe]

For information, the download links in the 'legacy order history' in the Planet Auran profile pages are still operational.

However they install build 46957 which was the original build at the time of my order. Therefore it is still necessary to download and install all the patches and hotfixes to bring TS12 up to build 61388.

I was hoping that it would be 61388 to avoid all the time it takes to run through all the patches.

Scottish

I have the same issue. I'm hoping Mr Murphy will tell us what to do to obtain the latest fully-patched and hotfixed version as a download. Must we all raise a separate help desk ticket? Surely it would make more sense to update the legacy order pages so that all TS12 owners could go straight to the latest version.

Lataxe

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Morning All
For the moment, please contact the helpdesk if you wish to receive access to the TS12 digital download that includes the SP1 update in it.

I will speak to our admin tomorrow about seeing if we can update the download in the legacy order history system, however it may take a little time for this to be done.

Regards

 

[BuilderBob]

I will speak to our admin tomorrow about seeing if we can update the download in the legacy order history system

Considering the number of people who claim that the upgrades are worse than the original, this would have to be optional. However I would certainly take advantage of it, even if I had no immedate need for a 61388 install.

 

[Robert2d6]

I stopped using Trainz about 2 years ago after SP1 was introduced. I had read so many posts about issues with add on content, and since I had so much of it, I decided to stay with TS12 44922. Then I became hesitant about downloading anything or even updating any content, and finally just decided to quit altogether. So today I decided to fire up Trainz after 2 years, and I started running a session and everything works just as it did before. In reading this thread, I am thinking that if a new version is coming out by the beginning of next year, maybe I should just stay with what I have now because it all works, and run it as is. I have forgotten so much in the 2 years, it would probably be a nightmare for me to try and straighten out problems, if I installed SP1, and ran into them. I guess I will just not update any content either.

My question is, is any content in TS12 going to be compatible with the new version of Trainz when it is released, or is it a whole different animal?