Triggering Signals Question

[acelejalde]

Hey all,

I had a question about triggering signals, mainly those that do not use standard block signalling. In the BART system, there are only signals at certain interlockings, since train operation is done via a centralized computer, so no need for fixed blocks like in Chicago or New York City. I am new at using triggers, and after toying around with them for days---I am coming up stumped. Attached is a picture of what I'm hoping to accomplish. It should be self-explanatory, but if it isn't, please respond and I'll do my best to clarify.

The signals on the W2 track going north will be red (C & H), until a train hits a specific insulated joint in the rails before the station, at which the signals will turn green (H first, then C). Once the signals are passed, they will turn red, until another train hits the IJ. The same is said for the southbound W1 track, and signals A & F. There would be triggers to clear the wrong-rail signals B, D, E, G & the pocket signals J & K.

I tried to use the trigger rule & trigger multiple signals rule, but they don't seem to work the way I want them to. Maybe I'm setting them up wrong? Any help is appreciated.

 

[sniper297]

Hmmm, not really all that clear. Trigger Multiple Signals is primarily used for something that Auran is apparently incapable of figuring out - protecting diamond crossings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k4cDDhVAao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ2JOFknmTo

Note how as a train crosses in one direction the signals go red for the crossing tracks, in one case there's a train diverging from one route to the other that triggers all the signals in all four directions red. AFAIK that's what Trigger Multiple Signals was designed for, signals generally clear by themselves and don't need to be triggered green.

I'm assuming this is passenger station kinda thing, here's how I would do it;

Looking from the other end, since the center track is a single block (I know you say they don't use blocks, but generally think of a "block" of space between one signal and the next, which in an interlocking can be a mile away with a zillion switches between) it don't need an entrance signal. Generally the outer tracks would have no exit signal for something that short, if both switches are straight the head would indicate green over red, if the far switch is thrown the wrong way it would show red over red, a stop indication, so it wouldn't pass that signal without throwing the far one straight first. AI trains can take a long time to figure out the combination, but they usually do eventually. This one being a presumed passenger station, however, you would want exit signals so a train could enter that track even if another train was entering or leaving the middle track beyond the far switch.

Something like that. With that setup any combination of trains could sort themselves out without any need for triggers - however, if you want them to actually take specific tracks instead of choosing left-center-right at random, you need to add at least one named track marker to each of the three tracks with "Navigate to trackmark" or "Navigate via trackmark" instructions in the driver setup.

If you're really bent on having the signals all set to red as the train is approaching, and clear when he reaches a certain point, it's possible but complicated - set the trigger radius to something like 500 meters, set the trigger to control all the signals (Trigger Multiple Signals setup is designed to control signals by making them turn red, AFAIK there's no way to reverse that), then move the trigger about 600 meters back from the signal. As the train approaches the trigger within 500 meters, all the signals go red, when the last car passe beyond the 500 meter trigger radius they will clear. That gets tricky too, altho it's more doable on a rapid transit route with predictable train lengths - if the train is 200 meters long, and you want the signals to clear when the engine reaches 100 meters from the station, you need to move the closest edge of the trigger radius 300 meters from the station, ergo with a 500 meter radius trigger the trigger itself should be 800 meters from the station. End result of that would be lead car (engine) approaches, hits the edge of the trigger radius, 1300 meters from the station all signals go red. All signals stay red until back of trailing car clears other edge of trigger radius (which releases control of the signals so they go back to doing what they're supposed to, carry on smoke 'em if you got 'em) which means a 200 meter train would have the front car 100 meters to go, a 100 meter train would have 200 to go.

I'm sure all that sounds complicated, that's because it is.

 

[acelejalde]

Thanks

Thanks for the help---sorry for my complicated diagram--I really tried my best. Anyway, your diagram didn't make sense the first few read throughs, but I eventually got the general gist of it. I'm not really bent on ALL the signals staying red until something is cleared, but from what I understand, since these signals are at interlockings that are sometimes miles away from each other, the signal would just stay at red "no train approaching", which is suitable enough for me.

When you're talking about trigger radius, how does one set that up? I keep hearing it, but I don't know where to find it.

 

[JohnnyC1]

The scripted signals by GrahamSea can accomplish this without triggers. See here:
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=73132&highlight=scripted+signals
There is a d/l link
Johnny

 

[sniper297]

No, your diagram is perfectly clear, what had me hornswoggled was what you hoped to accomplish with Trigger Multiple Signals that the normal signals won't do by themselves. As for how, the default is 20 meters, select the trackmark tool and click the ittybitty advanced button to drop down the additional tool.

After that you have to open the rules in the session, add Trigger Multiple Signals to the rules list, then edit that rule to set which triggers control which signals. For this junction I originally had 8 triggers, one for each of the tracks approaching the junction, left out the ones for the inner and outer left hand tracks which have the normal direction of travel away from the junction. Then in the session I added one Trigger Multiple Signal rule with all four signals at lower right and all four at upper left being controlled by the triggers at lower left and upper right, and a second rule which did the opposite. The logic is obvious if you study it - a train approaching on either of the right hand tracks hits a trigger and trips all the signals in both directions on the cross tracks red, releasing them when it leaves the trigger radius. I had to get more complicated beyond that for trains coming from the upper right and diverging onto the lower right tracks instead of just crossing straight over, for that it needs to trigger all 16 signals red to prevent trains from any of the four possible directions from running thru it. Certain combinations would make it possible for another train to go thru at the same time (the real Western Avenue Interlocking averaged one train movement every 90 seconds back in the olden days), but that would require a lot more complication to set up. In this case I merely added the middle triggers on the diverging tracks to both sets of rules, which makes them activate both rules and trip both sets of signals red.

http://trains.0catch.com/tutorial.html

Part 12 of that tute covers how to set them up for a basic diamond crossing. If you want to reverse engineer my setup, beta for the route and session is here;

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=74640

Read the fine print at the bottom, N3V is too busy making up new imaginary errors to check for to fix the real problems, so you must download

Trigger Multiple Signals,<kuid2:116387:26:1>

and install manually, it won't get it automatically because it's not in the dependencies list because it don't get automatically added to the KUID table because I don't know why the hell not, probably because it's easier for N3V to blame the user for these problems instead of actually investigating them.