Trigger Not Switching 1 Junction

[TheIlkestonFlyer]

Apologies if this is in the wrong section. I have melted my brain a little and will explain why.

I am fairly new to TS12 and I have jumped straight into using the Surveyor to create a session. I have been picking apart the default ones and reading about the subject on various sites. I have struggled with things but with persistance I have managed to understand things so far.

I have been having a problem for roughly the last 8 hours trying to get one junction to switch. I have used a trigger to switch junctions and everything is fine apart from this one problem. First of all another trigger switches junctions including the problem one, however it works fine with this first trigger. I then hit another trigger that changes some more junctions including the problem one that should change from left to right or vice versa.

The trigger is working because the other junctions included in the rule are switching. The only difference with the problem one is it is switched twice.

I really would appreciate some help as I am now at a loss as how to get any further with my session. It must have taken me another 4 hours before this happened just to stop red signals appearing down the line (Tyne Yard on the ECML, confusing amount of tracks for a beginner) . My weekend is running out and I would like to make some progress on this session.

Thanks.

 

[Bill69]

Hi IlkstonFlyer,

Are you using trackmarks for the train to drive via or are you using the path command? Your problem seems to indicate the problem junction is working ok but the AI wants to take a different path.
Check that you don't have anything causing the AI to insist on one particular path.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[trev999]

The centre point of the loco needs to be at least 20 metres away from a junction lever to allow the junction to switch. Is your loco far enough away from the junction?

I did an experiment (in TS2010) to switch a junction with a trigger approached by loco 1 and and then a second loco approaches a second trigger to reverse the same junction. I used Trigger Check rule and Switch Junctions rule for this test which worked correctly.

You could try using a driver command "ControlJunction", <kuid:131986:1011> found in the TRS2006 section (build 2.5) of the DLS. This works in TS2010 but might need the command "FreeJunction" to release the junction after traversing it.

Hope this helps

Trevor

 

[TheIlkestonFlyer]

Thank you both for your replies. The train I am using is controlled by myself instead of AI. I think I need to try moving further away from the junction by the sounds of it. The trigger and where I stop the train is quite close to the junction so I will give that a go and see if it works.

 

[TheIlkestonFlyer]

Just had another bash and still nothing. I have moved the trigger a little further away from the problem junction and also made sure my train was well away from it. I have taken a few screenshots to see if that can explain better than I but cannot upload them to here. :'(

I am using the 'Trigger Check' rule and 'Set Junctions' rule. As I said earlier it is working fine on everything but this one junction which has previously been switched with another 'Trigger Check'. The 'Trigger Check' that is firing the 'Set Junctions' on the problem junction sets 3 junctions. 2 of these 3 are switching but its just this one problem junction that is not.

I know I could always switch it manually but for me that defeats the whole object of setting up triggers.

 

[oknotsen]

I am starting to wonder why you want to us so many triggers to set junctions in the first place and still are not just turning the train into an AI train. I mean, the only difference between a complete AI train and your situation is that you control speed.
So my question is: What are you trying to achieve and cant that be fixed by setting those junctions once at the start of the session?

Anyway:

I have taken a few screenshots to see if that can explain better than I but cannot upload them to here.

Check out this topic for that.

 

[Azervich]

Hey all,

I think TS12 has issues with triggers as in TS2010 I would use triggers to change the weather condition and vehicle physics to make it slippery when it rains, however in TS12 this no longer works.

Cheers.

 

[Deano5]

I am starting to wonder why you want to us so many triggers to set junctions in the first place and still are not just turning the train into an AI train. I mean, the only difference between a complete AI train and your situation is that you control speed.
So my question is: What are you trying to achieve and cant that be fixed by setting those junctions once at the start of the session?

Anyway:
Check out this topic for that.

I would have thought that was obvious. What train driver has to jump out of his cab to change the points at every junction? Think about it grumpy.
OP. Take a look on the DLS under "Rules/Driver commands, there are so many to play around with and the right combination of each can give superb results.
It's all about trial and error on the creators side until you hit the one that works for you. :wave:
P.S. Welcome to the forum and I do appologise for the grumpy reception above, I think he's having a mid life thingy.

 

[TheIlkestonFlyer]

I am starting to wonder why you want to us so many triggers to set junctions in the first place and still are not just turning the train into an AI train. I mean, the only difference between a complete AI train and your situation is that you control speed.
So my question is: What are you trying to achieve and cant that be fixed by setting those junctions once at the start of the session?

Anyway:
Check out this topic for that.

Hello. As I stated I am new to TS12 and I cant say I used UTC that much either so I am just having fun driving trains. I didnt want to have to set the junctions ahead everytime I play it so I thought using triggers was the sensible option to automate the task. Surely driving along and having the junctions already set for me is closer to real world train driving just like having a signalman set them for you? That is my thinking anyway. I am switching to different tracks and then reversing so there are alot of juntions to switch. This is how the default sessions play so I thought this was the thing to do.

The triggers obviously work because all the other junctions are switching no problem, so having this one niggling error is quite annoying to me. What other options are there?

 

[Deano5]

As I tried to state to you above, please ignore the grumpy old so n so. The rest of us are not that way inclined. :hehe:
Trainz is for fun not stress. :wave:

 

[TheIlkestonFlyer]

Hehe, thanks for the welcome. No offence taken here I can assure you. I am from a flight simulator background where I love to create missions so doing the same with Trainz really appeals to me. I want to get it right so I can at least share them in the future without any errors included.

 

[oknotsen]

Think about it grumpy.
....
I think he's having a mid life thingy.

Any specific reason for calling me that?
No really, try me. What is the need to try and offend me? Since when is trying to help someone and trying to figure out what someones problem is being grumpy? What is your problem with that?
You are 44 and your occupation is "posty" and then you say I am having a mid life thingy? Checked a mirror lately?

Calling me silly for not thinking of something obvious I overlooked, now that might have made sence, but even then, the whole mid life comment? Really?
It is crap like what you are writing here that is making people grumpy. Unasked for bull**** comments.

Surely driving along and having the junctions already set for me is closer to real world train driving just like having a signalman set them for you? That is my thinking anyway.

Clear enough.
Hope the link to how to post screenies helps so people can get a look of your situation. Someone (was it you?) already mentioned that maybe your triggers are to close to the switch to still be able to turn it when driving in that direction. Other then that I cant help you for now.

 

[TheIlkestonFlyer]

Yes the screenshot link is going to be a great help, thanks. Just got to get around to posting them now. I have been spending all of my time trying to get this junction to switch. For now I am going to have to switch it by hand until I find out later down the line what I am doing wrong. Hopefully by cracking on with the session I will discover the cause. I discovered the 'Switch Junction' rule by accident earlier so I am playing around with that now. No luck so far.

 

[Bill69]

snip I have been spending all of my time trying to get this junction to switch. For now I am going to have to switch it by hand until I find out later down the line what I am doing wrong. Hopefully by cracking on with the session I will discover the cause. I discovered the 'Switch Junction' rule by accident earlier so I am playing around with that now. No luck so far.

You don't have to switch the junction by hand when in driver. Set the offending junction to the direction you want in surveyor then when you go into driver the junction will be as you set it.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[TheIlkestonFlyer]

The problem is Bill that the junction needs to be switched twice. I switch from one line to the other and then that junction needs to be switched again so I can reverse without switching back to the line I have just come from. I am new to this and no doubt I am doing things all wrong but I suppose using the surveyor to build a session will teach me things.

Thanks for the responses people. This seems a nice forum to be involved with.

 

[TheIlkestonFlyer]

Bill69, thank you.

I took your advice and switched the junction direction in Surveyor and the junction I was having the problem with now has 1 'Switch Junction' rule which is triggered by an existing Trigger on the line (the AWS thingymajig in centre of track).

It is now switching correctly and I have been able to slim down all the triggers I was using. One thing bothers me though. When I start adding the AI trains and they pass the junctions that I set in Surveyor, will they change back to the direction I set them or stay as the AI set them?

Oh yes, its been a good thing for me trying out all different combinations to get the triggers, signals and junctions working. I am beginning to understand how it all works I think.

 

[trev999]

When I start adding the AI trains and they pass the junctions that I set in Surveyor, will they change back to the direction I set them or stay as the AI set them?

Sometimes they do and sometimes not. If you find that a junction is not resetting, there is an old rule (build 2.0) that you can use to ensure that junctions revert to their original positions. It is called "Junction Normal" <kuid2:44272:90012:2>. You can specify which junctions are to be monitored by the rule. It works in TS2010 but I don't know what will happen in TS12.

While you are experimenting, try out "Check Trackside" rule (which is built in to TS2010) as an alternative to Trigger Check.

Regards

Trevor

 

[TheIlkestonFlyer]

Thanks trev, I will have a bash with that.

Pleased to say I can now tootle along part of the route, pick up my wagons and get diverted while AI trains whizz by. What a smashing simulator this is.

 

[Bill69]

Bill69, thank you.

I took your advice and switched the junction direction in Surveyor and the junction I was having the problem with now has 1 'Switch Junction' rule which is triggered by an existing Trigger on the line (the AWS thingymajig in centre of track).

It is now switching correctly and I have been able to slim down all the triggers I was using. One thing bothers me though. When I start adding the AI trains and they pass the junctions that I set in Surveyor, will they change back to the direction I set them or stay as the AI set them?

Oh yes, its been a good thing for me trying out all different combinations to get the triggers, signals and junctions working. I am beginning to understand how it all works I think.

Hi IF,

Glad you got it working ok. Yes when the AI moves a junction it should always revert to the surveyor default setting, provided your train stops far enough from the junction to free it. Wherever possible I try to set my junctions so that, in a cluster of junctions which are close together, the AI only has to switch one junction for a particular path.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[llebrez]

This is an interesting subject: When AI changes a junction, it reverts, after passing the junction to the original position. What about when it changes it still when the last car is still over the junction? and it de-rails? There has been a number of people with this problem at one time or another, and it has been posted somewhere here time ago. I still have this problem and the only way to solve it was to change the last car, or revert the direction, or just use a railcar intead of a train with cars (a draconian solution...). Anyone has a comment?