TransDEM

[ccowan2126]

What is the easiest and fastest way to make a route with TransDEM? I have been reading the manual to try to figure this thing out, but I must be the dumbest SOB in the world, because I cannot understand how to get started. There is a lot of info in the manual, but no tutorial that goes from start to finish using one of the methods described. Can I build a route just using Google Earth images? I can't seem to find the answer to that question. What is the SIMPLEST method? I cannot even figure out how to find, download and import a map to get started!

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[JCitron]

Hi Connel,

First congratulations on getting the program!

Now how to start the easiest way. I have never used the Google Map method of setting up tiles, however, here's the way to download data from the National Map server. Once you bring this down, follow the directions in the manual on importing the data. It's pretty easy once you do it.

1) Go here:

http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

2) Pick the area you want.
Zoom in as much as needed to get the details you want. You can change from topo map view to satellite if you want.

3) Click on Download Data, located in the upper right corner.
4) Click on Download Map extent.
5) Click on Elevation
6) Click Next
7) Choose 1/3 arc second resolution, .img or arc-grid
There are two other resolutions. 1-arc second which is too low and 1/9 which is higher detailed, but can be burden on the computer. You can try them if you want.

8) Click Next
9) Put in your email address twice.
10) Check email for your links and download the very, very large zip file(s).

You can also choose Orthographic (satellite) images if you wish too for overlays in TransDem.

11) Open up the very large zip files. Choose the large .img or .adf file. This is your image data which will be imported into TransDem.
12) In TransDEM, choose open DEM and you can bring this in.

 

[geophil]

What is the easiest and fastest way to make a route with TransDEM? I have been reading the manual to try to figure this thing out, but I must be the dumbest SOB in the world, because I cannot understand how to get started. There is a lot of info in the manual, but no tutorial that goes from start to finish using one of the methods described.

There is the Quick Start Guide, from page 11 in the TransDEM Trainz manual. My delivery email will have mentioned it. I would definitely follow it from start to finish, to get the hang of things.

The Quick Start Guide suggests SRTM DEM data for your very first TransDEM route project. The NED DEMs, which John is referring to, via the National Map Viewer, are superior in quality, and for a proper project I would go for them as well.

 

[BlackDiamond1964]

I used Google Earth for making routes but I never used Google Earth imagery. I just used transferred paths. I do recall seeing that someone did try this but I can't remember were I seen the information at. Try the Transdem forums.

 

[ccowan2126]

Ok, John. Now I have a DEM, is that right? I still need a Raster map and a vector map, is that right?

 

[JCitron]

Ok, John. Now I have a DEM, is that right? I still need a Raster map and a vector map, is that right?

Yup. You need those as well. You can also download ortho images from the National Server as well. Read the quick start guide that Geophil has mentioned. It really is helpful.

You can also use the Map Tile services to download a base map. I use the MS Virtual Earth as my source, trace a path, then use a map server to download the individual maps. Again read the quick-start guid on this as it's easier than typing in the directions here. It's pretty easy once you get all the parts.

John

 

[steamboateng]

In general, a minimum of three elements are required to complete a TransDEM generated Trainz map. These elements are all generated/processed within the TransDEM program. These elements are:
(note: You can generate a Trainz map using only the DEM data, or just the Dem data and a map overlay.)
A TransDEM generated DEM map;
A series of georeferenced map overlays or UTM tiles (USGS maps, WMS maps, or Google Earth images);
A TransDEM generated vector map (route map) overlayed on the georeferenced map overlay:
all of these elements are then processes within the TrainzDEM program.
The TrainzDEM program will generate the complete Trainz map, which will then be automatically imported into Trainz.
The DEM will be exported as height data, generating the terrain map in Trainz. The georeferenced map data will be exported as an overlay (or underplayed UTM tiles) on the terrain map. The vector map determines not only the route, but may be used as a guide, within TrainzDEM, to generate the extents on either side of the route, of the Trainz map. You have an option to show or not show the route overlayed on the Trainz map.
Your TransDEM Manual describes the steps for generating georeferenced USGS maps, as well as a section describing how to generate Google Earth overlay maps.

 

[cascaderailroad]

I have been reading the manual to try to figure this thing out, but I must be the dumbest SOB in the world, because I cannot understand how to get started.

You are not ... but I am ... and If I can do it ... anyone else can too

You can PM me, and I can help to confuse you :hehe:

 

[Vern]

Just remember that getting a DEM'ed and mapped route is only the start of it. There's still much work to be done - Transdem gives you an easy and excellent start but after that your technical skill and imagination must provide the rest.

 

[steamboateng]

I will vouch for Cascaderailroad's comments.
Having suffered trough some of his TransDEM pains, I can assure you...................he speaks the truth!:'o

 

[BlackDiamond1964]

People like myself seem to make a these programs like Transdem over complicated. Once you take the time to figure it out, you find it far easier to use then you ever thought possible. I had the same experience with learning Blender.

 

[ccowan2126]

I'm gettin' it now!! I have made a vector route (?) using the Map Tile Server function in TransDEM. I have the hang of that. I did however just run into an error message when trying to do a second one to connect to the first one I did. (This is a long route from Rural Hall, NC to Wilkesboro, NC). The error reads: Path too complex. Anyone know how to get around this error? Not sure what is "too complex" about it.

I did a vector route of the eastern 1/3 of the distance. When I went to make the central 1/3 of the route, TransDEM merged the completed eastern 1/3 with the "first phase" of the central 1/3. Once I roughly traced the rail line of the central 1/3 and wanted to get the "Map images along the path", I got the error message.

 

[ccowan2126]

The DEM will be exported as height data, generating the terrain map in Trainz. The georeferenced map data will be exported as an overlay (or underplayed UTM tiles) on the terrain map. The vector map determines not only the route, but may be used as a guide, within TrainzDEM, to generate the extents on either side of the route, of the Trainz map. You have an option to show or not show the route overlayed on the Trainz map.
Your TransDEM Manual describes the steps for generating georeferenced USGS maps, as well as a section describing how to generate Google Earth overlay maps.

I get that DEM data determines the height/contour of the terrain and basically that the vector data is the actual route of the RR tracks. What I don't understand is what exactly is a UTM tile and what does it actually do? When you mention "overlay" is this something that will show where streets, building and waterways, etc. are located? A UTM tile sounds like an "asset" that can be manipulated in Surveyor somehow (at least that is what I think I understand from the TransDEM manual), but I do not know what is really is, what is does and why do I need it.

Thanks, to everyone who has offered info and support. I really appreciate it.

 

[steamboateng]

There are only two ways you can apply map data to a Trainz route within TrainzDEM. Each has its pros and cons. Neither is better or worse but more a subjective decision fitting your route development style and hardware capabilities.
Probably more common is the 'Ground Texture' method, where your georeferenced maps are applied to the terrain map as an overlay, actually as a 'texture' in the 'Surveyor' sense. The cons: these maps are permanent and add to the overall memory load of your route; they are also somewhat distorted (generally acceptable) along elevations and depressions. The pros: as an overlay, you can place buildings, roads, streams, etc. directly on the map; painting in and applying scenery items as you go. Also Google Earth (and similar) maps may actually be used as your 'finish' texture; thus reducing the effort in making routes.
The UTM method is similar in that georeferenced maps are applied (in 1000 meter^2 tiles) for your reference; but they are applied beneath the terrain grade. Pros: they are not permanent and may be removed once an area is 'textured' in Surveyor, thus lightening the memory load as the route progresses. They also introduce less map distortion. On the con side: the map tiles cannot be recalled once deleted, and a parallax error can be introduced if you work at angle to the grid;i.e. it's best to work the area from directly above. For Google Earth (and the like) fans, this method will not apply textures directly to the terrain.
Roland diligently updates and improves TransDEM as time goes on and new software/formats are developed and implemented, so I don't consider myself qualified to comment on all the pros and cons of either method, but you can consider this a general overview of the differences in each.

 

[ccowan2126]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a UTM tile? What does it look like? How is it a "reference"? What does it mean that they are "applied beneath the terrain grade"? What do I do with them? Why would I want them?

Sorry to be so dense.

 

[ccowan2126]

Hey, can anyone tell me what they think might have happened??

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[SharkNose]

Looks fine to me...

Those little square blotches of terrain are the baseboard showing through the 3D UTM Tile. Pressing F9 to toggle wireframe mode on and off will eliminate them when in wireframe mode. Similarly, you could also raise the 3D UTM tile up a little either in TransDEM (eg.: 10cm to 15 cm) or in Surveyor itself just like you would a building or tree.

The reason that you do not have full coverage of the baseboard with the 3D UTM tiles is that the baseboard size is 720 x 720 meters and UTM tiles are either 500 x 500 meters or 1000 x 1000 meters. Since a UTM tile cannot originate outside of the baseboard area, you are usually going to get more baseboard coverage than UTM tile coverage. Extending your baseboard coverage to one board past where you want can cause more UTM tiles to be created and ensure the area you are interested in is covered.

Good start so far! Are you having fun? (that's the main thing)

Andrew

 

[ccowan2126]

Is it possible to generate a route WITHOUT UTM tiles? I played around with them on the route and see, now, where they can be raised or lowered. But, they cannot be textured (painted) over, so what good are they? I would just as soon skip the UTM tiles and just texture the terrain like normally. Also, is there a way by playing around with the TransDEM settings to have the track actually follow (with cuts and fills) the terrain? I have the 3D mesh importer installed and would like the track to be placed better so I don't have to tweak it as much.

 

[martinvk]

http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/[/URL]

...

For those who want to model other areas of the world, is there a list of equivalent sources that have similar data?

 

[cascaderailroad]

As far as I know, a georeferenced map on a Transdem route can be painted over with textures ... But a Google Earth Map Image is permanent, and should be avoided, as it can not be painted over ... And Transdem does not lay track by magic, and all the gradients need to be ironed out, as trees and buildings throw off the cuts and fills heights to a certain degree ... It does create a pretty darn good exact terrain +/-10m ... but a DEM will control you ... and it takes allot of manual track placement/adjustment to get gradients correct.

Most of the time my gradients are 0.10% to 0.30% and are always much less than 1.75% ... if you just slap track on an ungraded DEM you will have rediculous rollercoaster gradients of uphill 7.5% and downhill of 6.5%.

I have learned how to adjust gradients on a DEM, and it takes meticulous practice, even on the most detailed quality DEM's