Trainz / Radius / Elevation Height / Metric / Imperial

[cascaderailroad]

Measuring Distance:

1000 Meters = 0.62137 Miles = 3281 Feet
1609 Meters = 1 Mile = 5280 Feet
720 Meters = 0.44739 Miles = 2362 Feet

============================================================================================================================

Measuring Elevation Height:

Common knowlege about Topo maps, every line drawn on a topo map is set in 20 foot incriments.

It seems the magic number to divide by, is @ 3.28
Numbers rounded off to simplify things.
Imperial height elevation (ft) above sea level = Metric in Trainz (m):

2200' = 671 m
2180' = 665 m
2160' = 659 m
2140' = 652 m
2120' = 646 m
2100' = 640 m
2080' = 634 m
2060' = 628 m
2040' = 622 m
2020' = 616 m
2000' = 610 m
1980' = 604 m
1960' = 598 m
1940' = 591 m
1920' = 585 m
1900' = 579 m
1880' = 573 m
1860' = 567 m
1840' = 561 m
1820' = 555 m
1800' = 549 m
1780' = 543 m
1760' = 537 m
1740' = 530 m
1720' = 524 m
1700' = 518 m
1680' = 512 m
1660' = 506 m
1640' = 500 m
1620' = 494 m
1600' = 488 m
1580' = 482 m
1560' = 476 m
1540' = 469 m
1520' = 462 m
1500' = 457 m
1480' = 451 m
1460' = 445 m
1440' = 439 m
1420' = 433 m
1400' = 427 m
1380' = 420 m
1360' = 415 m
1340' = 408 m
1320' = 402 m
1300' = 396 m
1280' = 390 m
1260' = 384 m
1240' = 378 m
1220' = 372 m
1200' = 366 m
1180' = 360 m
1160' = 354 m
1140' = 347 m
1120' = 341 m
1100' = 335 m
1080' = 329 m
1060' = 323 m
1040' = 317 m
1020' = 311 m
1000' = 305 m
980' = 299 m
960' = 293 m
940' = 286 m
920' = 280 m
900' = 274 m
880' = 268 m
860' = 262 m
840' = 256 m
820' = 250 m
800' = 244 m
780' = 236 m
760' = 232 m
740' = 226 m
720' = 220 m
700' = 213 m
680' = 207 m
660' = 201 m
640' = 195 m
620' = 189 m
600' = 183 m
580' = 177 m
560' = 171 m
540' = 165 m
520' = 159 m
500' = 152 m
480' = 146 m
460' = 140 m
440' = 134 m
420' = 128 m
400' = 122 m
380' = 116 m
360' = 110 m
340' = 104 m
320' = 98 m
300' = 91 m
280' = 65 m
260' = 79 m
240' = 73 m
220' = 67 m
200' = 61 m
180' = 55 m
160' = 49 m
140' = 43 m
120' = 37 m
100' = 30 m
95' = 28.96 m
90' = 27.44 m
85' = 25.91 m
80' = 24.39 m
75' = 22.87 m
70' = 21.34 m
65' = 10.82 m
60' = 18.29 m
55' = 17.77 m
50' = 15.24 m
45' = 13.72 m
40' = 12.20 m
35' = 10.67 m
30' = 9.15 m
25' = 7.62 m
20' = 6.10 m
15' = 4.57 m
10' = 3.04 m
9' = 2.74 m
8' = 2.43 m
7' = 2.13 m
6' = 1.82 m
5' = 1.52 m
4' = 1.22 m
3' = 0.91 m
2' = 0.61 m
1' = 0.30 m
6" = 0.15 m
3" = 0.91 m

No matter if I select Metric or Imperial, the elevation height in Trainz always shows the same...Why is this ? I am using TRS2006

 

[cascaderailroad]

Track Height

I believe that Trainz tracks are set to lay above the 0.00 m baseboard height, and are floating at +0.25 m.

If you apply a track height of -0.25 m, the track railhead should be just slightly visible, and the ties will be sunk in the baseboard.

I believe that if you alter the tracks height in the config file, you can adjust the height so that track does not float.
===================================================================================================================================
If you alter a tunnel height to show -1, then it will no longer snap to the grid, but this also disables the dighole feature.

 

[Vern]

I thought elevations were always shown in metres, regardless of whether you select imperial or a model railway scale for measuring linear distances in the route properties.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Yes...metric is allways displayed. So to figure a metric track height of 5 m (x the magic number 3.28) equals 16.6 foot above sea level.

Or in order to set a track height of 1500', devide that by 3.28...and the metric height to apply to the track should be 457 m.

I am finding this especially handy when laying track height elevations, and cut and pasting baseboard heights on DEM's.

You can highlight a height (in blue) and type in your desired height, and apply that height.

The same goes with gradients, type in the desired numeral.

 

[cascaderailroad]

I am experimenting with building a route, without using a DEM. The Bellefonte Central, in Centre County Pa. http://historical.mytopo.com/quadlist.cfm?stateabr=PA&town= Maptech topo maps show the area has a lowest point spot at Milesburg, which is an elevation of 700' above sea level, so I am extending my baseboards normally, which is the default height of (0.00m), and am cut and pasting and am applying an absolute terrain height of 213m (700' above sea level) to all the baseboards.

I will be applying track gradients beginning from Milesburg, and creating terrain using this method:
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-3.jpg

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002-2.jpg

 

[cascaderailroad]

Tracklaying Club

I propose that we make a "Tracklaying Club" thread, where we can all get together and point out suggstions for tracklaying, and give each other tips and techniques of exactly how to lay track and switch's. The thread "Tips and Tricks" in Operators and Engineers seems like the most probable place to post threads.

The more time I spend laying track in Trainz...the more mistakes I see that I am making...an the more I learn. I am starting to get the big picture now...most tracks are simply: just really long straight track sections, interconnected with a single curve, and then again on to the next really long straight section of track...etc...

On topo maps every tick mark is 1/10 of a mile...and I layed thousands and thousands of track segments, as such, every 1/10 of a mile...when in fact the many, many redundant straight sections of short track can simply be eliminated, and replaced with just a single long piece of rigid straight track like "MB Quad Line" spline. Then connect the ridged straight track sections, using curvable track.

After all the trackwork and curves have be adjusted an repositioned, at a much later date, the MB Quad Line straight track can be replaced, with curvable track that has been straightened.

 

[Measure_Twice]

The more time I spend laying track in Trainz...the more mistakes I see that I am making...an the more I learn. I am starting to get the big picture now...most tracks are simply: just really long straight track sections, interconnected with a single curve, and then again on to the next really long straight section of track...etc... .

== Yes Sir !

Tracklaying is the inverse of the ratio of MURPHY's LAW /number of attempts X frustration level. If you invert that, divide it by 2 you get TrackLaying Satisfaction. It just keeps getting better and better.

Thank you for the link from my original thread about the height. MeThinks me got the picture now.

I'm doing the Van Nuys, California to Simi Valley run and heading up the grade to the Santa Su tunnel challenged my recogning of how to interpret elevation data.

Measure_Twice

 

[bl4882]

I propose that we make a "Tracklaying Club" thread, where we can all get together and point out suggstions for tracklaying, and give each other tips and techniques of exactly how to lay track and switch's. The thread "Tips and Tricks" in Operators and Engineers seems like the most probable place to post threads.

I think this is an excellent idea.

Bernie

 

[nicky9499]

I'll start.

Before smoothing terrain, raise all affected spline points by 0.2. After smoothing, lower them all by 0.2 again to remove the 'floating effect'.

IMPORTANT: (see example)

A (50)--------------------B (51.2)------C (51.7)-----------------D (53)

Assuming I'm smoothing B to C.
If B to C is a curve and AB, CD are straightened splines, A and D must be raised to 50.2 and 53.2 respectively or the middle of BC will be floating.

Non-straightened splines are affected by straightened ones not only in terms or curvature but also in elevation.

This takes practice, but a good rule of thumb is always to do such 'smoothing operations' which start and end at straightened splines. This way, the probability of you forgetting which ones you've smoothed/raised is lesser.

Edit--
Likewise, if I'm to continue laying track and now need to smooth to F, the raising should start from C. (see diagram). Then lower CDEF when I'm done.

A (50)--------------------B (51)------C (51.7)-----------------D (53.2)-------E (53.7)-----------------F (55.2)
Cheerio,
Nicholas.

 

[Mick_Berg]

==

I'm doing the Van Nuys, California to Simi Valley run and heading up the grade to the Santa Su tunnel challenged my recogning of how to interpret elevation data.

Measure_Twice

I thought of doing that line, and then the Chatsworth accident happened and I didn't feel comfortable with it. But I guess enough time has passed. Do you plan to upload your route?
Mick Berg (from Van Nuys)

 

[cascaderailroad]

A DEM's Roller Coaster Terrain

I had the Horseshoe Curve line from Altoona to Galitzin finished about a year ago. I used the merge of Fishlipsatwork and DC Fox Horseshoe Curve DEM's, which proved to be inaccurate, and it lacked alot of the prototype areas that I also wanted to include on my route. I had all the gradients ironed out (as I thought). I laid the gradients at a steady 1.25% all the way up the mountain for 11 miles, and adjusted the terrain using the smooth spline tool (big mistake). I canned that route as the DEM was all deformed, out of wack, and corrupted with using he smooth spline tool.

Now that I have my new 5 county Horseshoe Curve monsterous DEM, I have learned to read trackcharts. And I have learned that the roller coaster, up and down gradients on a DEM, are what the real track does. Prototype RR tracks are not entirely an even semetrical gradient. I have now laid my tracks on an average between 0.10% and 0.50%, with the steepest gradient of 1.47% at Galitzin tunnel. Of course on a DEM you do have to adjust the terrain heights somewhat, and use the smooth spline tool, as the raw DEM gradients can be severly off, quite a bit, far exceeding the recommended prototype mainline maximum of 2%. And too the x-y-z heights on a DEM are oftentimes =/- 20' off in all dirrections, driving me absolutely lividly wild....ARRRRG !!!! But my point is that a RR gradient does in fact have quite alot up gradients and down gradients, over the hills and peaks.

Topo's: http://historical.mytopo.com/quadlist.cfm?stateabr=PA&town=

Trackcharts:http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/prrtrkch.html#210 - See: MP 210-Warrior Ridge to Spruce Creek

My big question for everyone: Why are we all so excessively compulsively compelled to re-create a route in foot by foot accuracy, with exact precise details ? Few people would even notice the minor mistakes, if we did make them !

IM me if you need help decyphering Topos or Trackcharts, and help with laying gradients and curves.

 

[nicky9499]

Looking at the real thing I guess. It sort of grows on you because the real thing just looks so, real. And you want to put that in Trainz. I know how it is while looking at pictures of Barstow to get a feel of the surroundings. So in the end, I got the landscape done and stopped looking at them altogether. :hehe:

Cheerio,
Nicholas.

 

[Measure_Twice]

I thought of doing that line, and then the Chatsworth accident happened and I didn't feel comfortable with it. But I guess enough time has passed. Do you plan to upload your route?
Mick Berg (from Van Nuys)

Well, as far as uploading goes, I have no idea. I'm a non RTFM kinda guy and have always done things the hard way, figuring as I go. I'm pretty adept at that and have not suffered much more than the RTFM guy. Short answer - I would have no idea YET how to upload, use the DLS, obtain and use/configure third party assets ... but time will change that.

I'll get back to you as soon as I re-register my FTP program (I'm on new computer now) with those shots. If your familiar with the areas and you see some glaring mistakes (that can be corrected on TRAINZ that is), let me know.

Measure_Twice

 

[Mick_Berg]

Well, as far as uploading goes, I have no idea. I'm a non RTFM kinda guy and have always done things the hard way, figuring as I go. I'm pretty adept at that and have not suffered much more than the RTFM guy. Short answer - I would have no idea YET how to upload, use the DLS, obtain and use/configure third party assets ... but time will change that.

I'll get back to you as soon as I re-register my FTP program (I'm on new computer now) with those shots. If your familiar with the areas and you see some glaring mistakes (that can be corrected on TRAINZ that is), let me know.

Measure_Twice

I haven't uploaded anything either, my route is so full of half-assed custom content. I have made some nice looking tunnel entrances though. Have a look at my screenshots on www.mickberg.com. Couldn't be more different than the Simi line!
I've replied to your PM.
Mick Berg.

 

[clam1952]

I'll start.

Before smoothing terrain, raise all affected spline points by 0.2. After smoothing, lower them all by 0.2 again to remove the 'floating effect'.

IMPORTANT: (see example)

A (50)--------------------B (51.2)------C (51.7)-----------------D (53)

Assuming I'm smoothing B to C.
If B to C is a curve and AB, CD are straightened splines, A and D must be raised to 50.2 and 53.2 respectively or the middle of BC will be floating.

Non-straightened splines are affected by straightened ones not only in terms or curvature but also in elevation.

This takes practice, but a good rule of thumb is always to do such 'smoothing operations' which start and end at straightened splines. This way, the probability of you forgetting which ones you've smoothed/raised is lesser.

Edit--
Likewise, if I'm to continue laying track and now need to smooth to F, the raising should start from C. (see diagram). Then lower CDEF when I'm done.

A (50)--------------------B (51)------C (51.7)-----------------D (53.2)-------E (53.7)-----------------F (55.2)
Cheerio,
Nicholas.

I do similar except when height is critical, I set the height 0.2 higher than it should be to start with, other than that the same procedure, it's second nature now so that I don't even think about it.

Malc

 

[Mick_Berg]

Van Nuys - Simi Valley Line

I thought of doing that line, and then the Chatsworth accident happened and I didn't feel comfortable with it. But I guess enough time has passed. Do you plan to upload your route?
Mick Berg (from Van Nuys)

Any progress on this route? The lack of any rolling stock seems to be a problem.
Mick Berg.