Trains ( worldwide ) equipped with bogies type Bo'Bo' or Co'Co'?

[belgian46]

Hello,

A lot of Belgian diesel locomotives ( for example HLD51 to 55 ) are or were equipped with a bogey type Co'Co'. Others ( like the HLD 59 to 65 ) are or were equipped with a bogey type Bo'Bo'.

Some Belgian electric locomotives ( like the HLE 11 to 17, HLE 18 Siemens, HLE 19 Siemens, HLE21 to 25, HLE28 to 29 ) are equipped with a bogey type Bo'Bo'

I have done some research about locomotives worldwide equipped with bogies type Bo'Bo' or Co'Co, but found not much information.

Do you know,apart from Belgium, if there are other locomotives ( worldwide ) equipped with a bogey of the type Bo'Bo' or Co'Co'?

Kind regards

Kurt

 

[PortLineParker]

Just a quick Google search will show that many hundreds of locos were built to these designs. British Railways had plenty and the list is far too long to type here but I don't think BoBo or CoCo locos were unusual at all. One, the BR Class 28 was even a CoBo as it had a different bogie on each end.

Cheers,

PLP

 

[belgian46]

Hello PortlineParker,

Thank you for your reply. Well this is odd.

Then it must be my search request that is not good enough, because I don't get any of those sites presenting me with those hundreds of locos with bogeys type Bo'Bo' and Co'Co'.

For the UK, I only found the class 43 and 67.

Kind regards

Kurt

 

[pfx]

Here you go Kurt, a site listing UK diesel and electric bogie configurations.

http://www.clag.org.uk/wheelbase.html

Also, here are all the bogie locos in Ireland, north and south. Easy to list as there haven't been many.

Irish Rail/Iarnród Éireann locos are as follows:
001 Class - Co Co
071 Class - Co Co
101 Class - A1A A1A
113 Class - Bo Bo
121 Class - Bo Bo
141 Class - Bo Bo
181 Class - Bo Bo
201 Class (Metro Vic) - Bo Bo
201 Class (GM) - Co Co

Northern Ireland Railways
101 Class - Bo Bo
104 Class - Bo Bo (same as Irish Rail 201 Class MV)
110 Class - Co Co (same as Irish Rail 071 Class)
201 Class - Co Co (same as Irish Rail 201 Class)

Cheers,
Innis

 

[belgian46]

Here you go Kurt, a site listing UK diesel and electric bogie configurations.

http://www.clag.org.uk/wheelbase.html

Cheers,
Innis

Hello Innis,

Thank you very much for the link

And the extra information about bogie locos in Ireland.

Cheers,

Kurt

 

[PortLineParker]

Hello PortlineParker,

Thank you for your reply. Well this is odd.

Then it must be my search request that is not good enough, because I don't get any of those sites presenting me with those hundreds of locos with bogeys type Bo'Bo' and Co'Co'.

For the UK, I only found the class 43 and 67.

Kind regards

Kurt

Hi Kurt,

I'm aware that Wikipedia isn't usually considered a reputable source, however they have a page on both topics - the lists, from what I can see, are quite comprehensive and also include the companies that were nationalised to create British Railways in 1948.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bo-Bo_locomotives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Co-Co_locomotives

Cheers,

PLP

 

[hedleigh]

Hi All,

It has been a while since I've looked into this but from memory Bo-Bo = 4 wheel bogie traction motors on each axle. Co Co = 6 wheel bogie traction motors on each axle and AIA AIA are 6 wheel bogies but no traction motors on the middle axles. I am not sure if this is correct but it's what I can remember.

Cheers,
John

 

[belgian46]

Hi Kurt,

I'm aware that Wikipedia isn't usually considered a reputable source, however they have a page on both topics - the lists, from what I can see, are quite comprehensive and also include the companies that were nationalised to create British Railways in 1948.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bo-Bo_locomotives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Co-Co_locomotives

Cheers,

PLP

Hello PLP,

Thank you very much for those links.

Now, I can start to compare. Nevertheless, comparing is rather difficult, because I can't see all details on images of locomotives equipped with the Bo'Bo' or Co'Co' bogeys.

Cheers

Kurt

 

[belgian46]

Hi All,

It has been a while since I've looked into this but from memory Bo-Bo = 4 wheel bogie traction motors on each axle. Co Co = 6 wheel bogie traction motors on each axle and AIA AIA are 6 wheel bogies but no traction motors on the middle axles. I am not sure if this is correct but it's what I can remember.

Cheers,
John

Hello John,

Thank you for your information.

Cheers,

Kurt

 

[on30gn15]

locomotives worldwide equipped with bogies type Bo'Bo' or Co'Co, but found not much information.

Not going to find much from here in the US listed using those designations because we dropped the 'o' and just use B-B and C-C since monomotor bogies have never really been a thing here, so sort of by definition each axle is individually driven on mainline style diesel-electrics and straight electric bogie locomotives.

There have been a number of 6-axle locomotives use the A1A bogies which hedleigh mentioned.

Now true, small B-B industrial locomotives of 45 tons and under have used one motor to drive both axles via chain or siderod, and the PCC style streetcars/trams had one motor per bogie, but even so, common US practice is to write B-B instead of Bo-Bo no matter whether each axle is individually driven or not.

And then we also use the term truck instead of bogie, so that may be a factor in search results.

 

[on30gn15]

and AIA AIA are 6 wheel bogies but no traction motors on the middle axles. I am not sure if this is correct but it's what I can remember.

You have remembered correctly, and here's a reference from the US, https://www.american-rails.com/es44c4.html

GE "ES44C4" Locomotives​

Last revised: March 10, 2023
By: Adam Burns
After Baldwin and American Locomotive stopped production of A1A-A1A road-switchers in the 1950s, no one suspected they would ever return.
Few railroads had shown interest at the time and the advantages of six-motored locomotives largely outweighed any advantage of the A1A-A1A design.
However, thanks to microprocessors and computers which now monitor and control almost all aspects of diesel locomotive operation, the concept made a comeback.
In 2009 General Electric unveiled the ES44C4 as part of its Evolution Series locomotives which were equipped with the company's latest prime mover to meet the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) Tier II emissions standards.

...

A1A-A1A Trucks​

Some railroads found interest in the arrangement but overall it was a poor seller. Fast forward nearly 70 years and the A1A-A1A design had returned thanks to General Electric.
It was a radical departure, however, from the original concept. What GE dubbed the ES44C4 was in no way intended for light branch line service.
This was a heavy haul power plant designed for the daily grind of main line freight service. It was more than 60% heavier and could produce a continuous tractive effort more than twice that of either an RSC-2 or DRS-6-4-1500.
As Greg McDonnell notes in his book, "Locomotives, The Modern Diesel & Electric Reference: 2nd Edition," GE's purpose behind the ES44C4 was predominantly an effort to eliminate production of the less-efficient DC traction road-switchers.
The locomotive was equipped with AC traction motors but only on the lead and trail axles. The center axle was unpowered, and thus an A1A-A1A wheel arrangement.

 

[on30gn15]

Here's a bit of a history on US locomotive trucks/bogies, https://utahrails.net/loconotes/loconotes-trucks.php

Here's a text sample which illustrates the dropping of the o,

On page 75, while describing the features of the newly designed 1000 horsepower road switcher later known as the RS1, Kirkland writes:

To provide improved riding characteristics (so as to impose minimum stress on lightly constructed track) these locomotives were built with a B-B wheel arrangement, using drop side equalizer, swing bolster trucks. These trucks had a rigid wheelbase of 9' 4", compared to 8' 0" for the standard switcher. This longer wheelbase truck distributed the weight over a longer rail distance (involving more tie support) which benefited operation over branch line track maintained to substandard conditions.

On page 118, while describing the features of what later became known as Alco's FA/FB locomotives, Kirkland calls the four-wheel freight truck, "Conventional two axle swing bolster, drop side equalizer trucks with 9'4" wheel base and 40" wheels". Also calling them "B-B drop side equalizer rigid bolster trucks with 9'4" wheel base".

Kirkland makes no mention of the three-axle truck used under the DL series, or the PA/PB series locomotives, other than to describe them as either 15'4" or 15'6", ridgid wheelbase A1A trucks.

 

[DARTrider]

Hello,

A lot of Belgian diesel locomotives ( for example HLD51 to 55 ) are or were equipped with a bogey type Co'Co'. Others ( like the HLD 59 to 65 ) are or were equipped with a bogey type Bo'Bo'.

Some Belgian electric locomotives ( like the HLE 11 to 17, HLE 18 Siemens, HLE 19 Siemens, HLE21 to 25, HLE28 to 29 ) are equipped with a bogey type Bo'Bo'

I have done some research about locomotives worldwide equipped with bogies type Bo'Bo' or Co'Co, but found not much information.

Do you know,apart from Belgium, if there are other locomotives ( worldwide ) equipped with a bogey of the type Bo'Bo' or Co'Co'?

Kind regards

Kurt

Just about every American locomotive is equipped with type Bo'Bo' (B-B in AAR classification) or Co'Co' (C-C in AAR classification).

Example for B-Bs include the EMD General Purpose (GP series), the GE UXXB, BXX-7 and BXX-8 series (replace "XX" with 23, 30, 36 or 40), the ALCo RS, S and Century series and many other types.
Examples for C-Cs include the EMD Special Duty (SD series), the GE UXXC, CXX-7, CXX-8, Dash-9, AC series and the GEVO series (replace XX with really any number of your choosing), the ALCo RSD and Century series among other types.

B-B Locomotive:

C-C Locomotive:

Here are some more modern examples:

B-B Locomotive:

C-C Locomotive:

 

[belgian46]

Hello on30gn15, Dartrider,

Thank you very much for all your information and link

Allthough Bo'Bo' and Co'Co' type bogeys are being used worldwide, one can say, the technique remains the same. However, the looks are sometimes different.

Kind regards

Kurt

 

[Paulsw2]

Bo-Bo and Co-Co are probably the most common bogies arrangements for diesel and electric locomotives all over the world; ie. two or three individually powered axles. From memory, in the UK, class 35 ('Hymek) locos were unusual with a B-B arrangement, class 31 with A1A-A1A and, most unusual of all, the Metrovick class 28 Co-Bo. The latter loco is available in Trainz as kuid:84609:50080 BR Class 28 D5701.

Paul

 

[belgian46]

Hello Paul,

Thank you for your information . I will have a closer look at the Metrovick class 28 on the DLS.

Kind regards

Kurt

 

[on30gn15]

UK, class 35 ('Hymek) locos were unusual with a B-B arrangement

Those were/are diesel-hydraulic transmission which is a bit of a different ballgame from diesel-electric power.

 

[Paulsw2]

Those were/are diesel-hydraulic transmission which is a bit of a different ballgame from diesel-electric power.

Indeed and you remind me that the class 52 'Westerns' (also diesel hydraulic) had a C-C wheel arrangement. Is it a feature of diesel hydraulic that the axles are not independently powered?

Paul

 

[on30gn15]

Is it a feature of diesel hydraulic that the axles are not independently powered?

Correct in that the DH types have a series of shafts connecting the transmission and the bogie axles where with electric transmission there is the option of either one motor on the bogie driving all axles, often termed a monomotor bogie, which would in Europe be a B-B or C-C bogie, or the option of each axle having its own independent electric motor, which is meant by the Bo-Bo and Co-Co designations.

And speaking of the Western class, this illustrates their transmission and driveline,

https://westernlocomotives.com/westerns/technical/

This has nice cutaway art of the Western class' transmission, and other good information,

Diesel Traction Group - D1015 Western Champion, Western Technical

Diesel traction group website - proud owners of D1015 Western Champion and many other fine locomotives

www.westernchampion.co.uk

This has a good image of a Bo electric bogie with parts labeled,

Bogies | The Railway Technical Website | PRC Rail Consulting Ltd

This has some good general information on the locomotive bogie topic,

Bogie of a Railway Locomotive: Design Principle, Wheelsets, Suspension System & Drive System

What is a Railway Bogie ? Just like the chassis of your passenger car, the bogie of a Locomotive is an essential part of the train. However, bogie has much more function to perform than a normal au…

theengineeringblog.com

 

[on30gn15]

Hey, a nice general interest technical article about locomotive and bogie design and construction,

Design and Simulation of Heavy Haul Locomotives and Trains

With the increasing demands for safer freight trains operating with higher speed and higher loads, it is necessary to implement methods for controlling longer, heavier trains. This requires a full understanding of the factors that affect their dynamic performance. Simulation techniques allow...

www.routledgehandbooks.com