Trains through American mountains are often slow.

JonMyrlennBailey

Well-known member
This is something I have come to realize after riding the California Zephyr ("Amwreck') through the Rocky Mountains and having played a number of Trainz routes based on various mountain roads of the American West. This includes Mojave Subdivision, West of Denver and Milwaukee Road Avery-Drexel. Speeds can be as low as 10-25 MPH quite often. Many mountain lines in the American West are single-track systems with only occasional sidings to allow two-way traffic to pass. Red signals can entail long waits for oncoming trains.

Is mountain railroading as slow in any other parts of the world outside the mountains of the American West?
 
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The slow speeds are generally due to grade and tonnage. Above 20 mph it becomes difficult to stop a heavy train on a 2+ percent grade. Curves further limit the speed those trains can travel.
Tracks are expensive to build in mountainous areas. Space is limited and adding sidings or a second track requires large rock-works or tunnels. So it is an economical balance between costs, traffic volume and required transit time that determine where sidings are needed.
 
Most western American railroads were surveyed in the 1850's to very... lenient specs, shall we say. Steep grades, tight curves, the whole nine yards. The alignment also very rarely changes. Europe having most of its rail network destroyed during WW2 meant they got better alignments, but it's still not much faster.
 
Did the steep grades play any role in why a number of lines (e.g. BCR, MILW, VGN) were electrified, or was it exclusively concern over the smoke in tunnels?
 
Did the steep grades play any role in why a number of lines (e.g. BCR, MILW, VGN) were electrified, or was it exclusively concern over the smoke in tunnels?
It was usually smoke in tunnels. Articulated steam engines were more than enough to handle steep grades when the lines were constructed, although even then some weren't enough. There are some interesting pictures of three or more large locomotives handling a simple passenger train on the Rio Grande's mainline in Utah
 
Suffice is to say, and whatever the reasons, trains are still slow and sometimes late in America. If you need to get from LA to Denver in a hurry, there are jet airplanes. Unless the TSA jerks will slow you down.


I still prefer my automobile for Interstate travel.
 
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Suffice is to say, and whatever the reasons, trains are still slow and sometimes late in America. If you need to get from LA to Denver in a hurry, there are jet airplanes. Unless the TSA jerks will slow you down.


I still prefer my automobile for Interstate travel.
The schedules take into account the mountainous route between LA and Denver. The biggest culprit for late running is the Union Pacific putting slow freights ahead of Amtrak passenger trains. CSX does the same thing back east and has gotten fined for doing that. The Lake Shore Limited was so late on every trip between Boston and Chicago that it garnered a new name and became known as the Late Shore Limited.
 
The biggest culprit for late running is the Union Pacific putting slow freights ahead of Amtrak passenger trains.
I used Amtrak once and we did end up following a freight train at 25mph. Not certain if it was UP or SP at that point. It really messed up my connections at the destination. I've never chosen Amtrak again for transportation. I'm still game for tourist/excursion trains.
 
I used Amtrak once and we did end up following a freight train at 25mph. Not certain if it was UP or SP at that point. It really messed up my connections at the destination. I've never chosen Amtrak again for transportation. I'm still game for tourist/excursion trains.
I've had good luck with Amtrak on the NEC between Boston and Philadelphia. They were fun trips with great rail fanning opportunities due to the mixed traffic all the way.

My best trip from Boston to Back Bay station to Penn Station, NYC was back in 1975 when I took the UNAC Turbo Train. Back then, there were GG1s, New Haven electrics, early Bombardier CDOT electrics, and all kinds of peddler freights out and about.

When pulling into Penn Station, I could see Southern Railroad passenger trainsets in the Sunny Side coach yards. The Southern was still running their own passenger trains back then.
 
Taking the Amtrak California Zephyr round trip from/to Oakland, CA to Denver, CO in the summer of 1986. There were mixed feelings. Two FP40H locomotives pulled the train. The GM/EMD plate on one engine said it was built in 1977. There was a privately-owned old passenger car on back of the train. Looked like an old Pullman Heavyweight. I saw the lovely Rocky Mountains. I stopped at an interesting Colorado town called Granby. It was cool to see a big yellow UP engine up front as a helper somewhere near Provo, UT. Or was it HELPER, UT? One of the cab drivers at the train station taxi stand in Denver was crabby while another driver of the same company, Yellow Cab, two mornings later was nice.

The train was dirty. The observation windows were dirty. The train smelled of mold. My train was held up in Salt Lake City, Denver-bound, for 5 hours due to a freight train derailment ahead. There, while the train was held up, a man operating a UP switcher yelled at me as I was wandering around the platform area. I actually wandered off the platform and walked over his track. I complained to the man of color serving me a meal on the train about its running late but he just gave a smirk and said nothing. I also traveled coach and the seat was not very comfortable to sleep on overnight in lieu of a bed in a private compartment. I vowed never to take a coach trip that long again. Originally, I did not want to spend too much money on a first-class ticket. The train took about 32 hours each way not counting the 5 hour hold-up in Salt Lake City. There is about 1,500 miles of rugged American Wild West real estate between Oakland and Denver (the Sierra Nevada, deserts, canyons, the Rockies) so I estimate the train speed averaged about 45 MPH. Coming back during the evening, before entering Utah, a dry state, I had a complimentary Bailey's Irish Creme on the train. It was Amtrak Happy Hour or something. A lady on the train said those Mormons won't allow booze to be served in their state. The return trip home to California seemed much faster and I didn't seem to mind coach so much on the return trip. I was so tuckered out, the coach seat didn't seem to bother me then. I was age 22 then. I'm 61 now. Back then, car rental places would not rent a car to a person under 25 without a major plastic card or a cosigner. If you were 18, you could buy an automobile if you paid cash for it.
 
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Taking the Amtrak California Zephyr round trip from/to Oakland, CA to Denver, CO in the summer of 1986. There were mixed feelings. Two FP40H locomotives pulled the train. The GM/EMD plate on one engine said it was built in 1977. There was a privately-owned old passenger car on back of the train. Looked like an old Pullman Heavyweight. I saw the lovely Rocky Mountains. I stopped at an interesting Colorado town called Granby. It was cool to see a big yellow UP engine up front as a helper somewhere near Provo, UT. Or was it HELPER, UT? One of the cab drivers at the train station taxi stand in Denver was crabby while another driver of the same company, Yellow Cab, two mornings later was nice.

The train was dirty. The observation windows were dirty. The train smelled of mold. My train was held up in Salt Lake City, Denver-bound, for 5 hours due to a freight train derailment ahead. There, while the train was held up, a man operating a UP switcher yelled at me as I was wandering around the platform area. I actually wandered off the platform and walked over his track. I complained to the man of color serving me a meal on the train about its running late but he just gave a smirk and said nothing. I also traveled coach and the seat was not very comfortable to sleep on overnight in lieu of a bed in a private compartment. I vowed never to take a coach trip that long again. Originally, I did not want to spend too much money on a first-class ticket. The train took about 32 hours each way not counting the 5 hour hold-up in Salt Lake City. There is about 1,500 miles of rugged American Wild West real estate between Oakland and Denver (the Sierra Nevada, deserts, canyons, the Rockies) so I estimate the train speed averaged about 45 MPH. Coming back during the evening, before entering Utah, a dry state, I had a complimentary Bailey's Irish Creme on the train. It was Amtrak Happy Hour or something. A lady on the train said those Mormons won't allow booze to be served in their state. The return trip home to California seemed much faster and I didn't seem to mind coach so much on the return trip. I was so tuckered out, the coach seat didn't seem to bother me then. I was age 22 then. I'm 61 now. Back then, car rental places would not rent a car to a person under 25 without a major plastic card or a cosigner. If you were 18, you could buy an automobile if you paid cash for it.
In 1986, much like the 1970s, Amtrak was running OP's equipment that was refurbished and repainted with a lick and a promise to with bits of duct tape holding the bogies on the bottom. Much later, they finally were able to purchase new locomotives and passenger cars.

In 1979 I took a trip to Florida with my brother to visit an aunt and uncle. We took Amtrak from Back Bay to Deland Florida. This trip entailed two trains each way. Boston to New York Penn Station then we switched to the Meteor for the rest of our trip to Florida.

The trip to New York was in standard coaches pulled by a former Pennsylvania, now painted Amtrak red front and silver F-unit until we reached New Haven where we were coupled on to an electric locomotive for the rest of our trip to Penn Station. We arrived with time to spare and we hung around as close as we could be to our possible arrival track because the announcement was absolutely impossible to understand.

Our train came in and we left. Again, these were older passenger cars and we had coach seats all the way. I took the window side and my brother the aisle because he didn't care to look out the window. Just a bit past the Delaware line, dinner was announced and we walked a few cars to the dining car.

The waitstaff were polite and we ordered the red snapper which came with a baked potato and string beans. The fish was delicious, although I remember the bones stabbing me, the string beans were garden fresh as if someone had picked them that morning, and the baked potato. Oh, that baked potato was the best I've ever had and never had one like it since. The skin was crisp and charcoal black on the outside. Inside, the potato was light and fluffy and melted in my mouth. It's been 45 years since I took the trip and I've never forgotten that.

The next day, we had breakfast which was eggs and bacon, with orange juice (our choice) and coffee. The bacon and eggs were fresh, and the eggs weren't that generic scrambled stuff from a carton. We skipped lunch because we had some snacks, besides we were arriving soon in Deland.

On the trip south, we passed through New Jersey and I remember the old washboard sided electrics, still lettered for Pennsylvania Railroad, and MP54s for commuter service. I don't remember what we had for an engine but it was electric all the way to Washington.

That night was interesting. I didn't sleep a wink because I spent my time looking out the window, and we had some visitors... Cockroaches were crawling all over the window frame! I alerted the car attendant, who came back with a can of RAID and sprayed. He said he'd notify his supervisor. We were safe for the rest of the trip down.

Going back, we had coach seats again but without the extra company. There was a lounge car on this train with an upright piano which I played. I was too young to drink but socialized with other passengers with a coke. My brother got bored and went back to our seats.

The meal was interesting. We had roast beef with baked potatoes and some fresh summer squash. The meal really was nice and well done. Like the first meal, we ate on China plates and had glassware to drink from.

Breakfast again was our choice of bacon and eggs with orange juice and coffee and we skipped lunch because we had our own food packed this time.

As we were getting close to New York City, I remember seeing the old Lackawanna Electric trains running across the Meadowlands to their various destinations. We went through the tunnel under the Hudson to Penn Station where we swapped for our train to Boston. This was one of those AEM-7 hauled trains up to New Haven where the diesel was put on for the trip home. For part of the trip, I remember standing at the back window of our coach, since we were in the last car on the train and watching the tracks behind me.

Thinking about this, Amtrak was trying hard with limited resources as usual to provide the best trip for the passengers they can. Today, dining cars have been replaced with snack cars and boxed meals. Gone is the restaurant like service with fresh food served on China plates. The seats are more comfortable, I'm sure. I haven't been on an Amtrak train since 1990 when I took my last trip to Philadelphia to visit my dad's sister.
 
I took a round trip from central Iowa (Des Moines metro) to Richmond, Kentucky this early June to pick up a new German Shepherd puppy. It was about 1500 miles of driving in my automobile. I went through Illinois, Indiana, a corner of Ohio out of Cincinnati. I stuck to Interstate routes as much as possible. I had Garmin GPS navigation on board. The trip covered 4 calendar days. There were three overnight hotel stays. One hotel cost me $173 per night with my new puppy in his carrier. My reliable air-conditioned automatic 1995 Toyota Corolla DX sedan still gets about 31 MPG highway. Combined gasoline and lodging costs for this trip were close to $600. I had some stuff packed in my cooler and there were a few meals at Culver's ButterBurgers and Frozen Custard to boot.

I don't know what mode of transportation would have been more practical if not cheaper for this special puppy-transporting trip. Certainly not airlines, Greyhound or Amtrak. With my car, I could stop and potty my puppy and give him breaks along the way at rest stops and at my leisure. Getting a hotel room above roach-motel/flea bag quality these days can be killer on the wallet. Even renting a truck for DIY moves these days is deplorable for Interstate rent rates.

Depending upon where you move to and from, a stupid U-Haul or Penske large van can cost $5, $6 or $7K for the rental rates alone!! I moved from Oklahoma to Iowa (700 miles one way) two years ago and the Penske International 26' diesel truck was only about $1,400 with a car carrier trailer (one way, out of state) and my Vet's discount for just vehicle rent costs. It's still not too bad moving from one non-major flyover state to another as in the mid-west. The truck was lucky if it could top 13 MPG, but I digress.

Here is my new black Sheppie boy, Gustav, at 5 months now. Handsome devil!

 
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Puppy is so cute! We lost our dog in June 2023 and now we have a few cats. At the time, the pound was out of dogs and a cat suckered us in. She's a brat! We went to the MSPCA again and no dogs and came home with another cat. Then in January this year, my sister passed away and we took one of her cats. We do miss a dog, though and keep looking.

Anyway, last year I looked into moving a friend of mine back east from Grand Island, NE to live here in Haverhill. Amtrak was only $250 one way to Hastings where I would need to rent a car up to go up to Grand Island to pick up a U-Haul. After checking around, I found out there was no other rental service available, besides we have a U-Haul rental agent located a mile from my house. The rental car was $250, plus gas, etc. Not bad and I got a discount too through AARP, making the rate even less.

The U-Haul truck, to carry all her crap back east, was $5400 plus gas. Hotels added up another $600, and meals yet another couple of hundred bucks.

The cost was way beyond what my Social Security budget can afford and we ended up scrapping the plan altogether.
 
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