throttle-power in enginespec

R

radionut44

Member
II have opened an Enginespec config file to edit. Under throttle-power I see which I think are sections for 0 (idle I assume) and 1-8 which I assume are notch positions. Under each notch, I see 2 colums of from 6 up to 11 lines of (I assume) parameters. Would someone explain what these parameters are? I hope to be able to set a max MPH desired for each notch. If I need to use KPH instead that is just a mile to kilometer correction so that pasrt would be easy if needed. Thanks for all education you will share!
 
Many years ago a member wrote an excel spreadsheet to generate those numbers by inputting several basic values. At that time, the results could be exported as text to create an enginespec.
I have no idea if one could find a copy, nor if it could be used for today's enginespecs.

I tried editing the run level data once. I wasn't careful enough and the result was not an improvement.

I have edited the maximum speed on a cloned engine spec a couple of times. And yes, everything is in metric values.

(The original Union Pacific Big Boy locomotive was rated for a higher maximum speed than the now restored version is rated at. I cloned the loco and the enginespec then edited the enginespec to the original speed. It doesn't make much difference as it usually gets a heavy train and neither top speed is acheived.)
 
I am making a layout based on a friends HO model, he uses a ProtoTrottle and in his DCC controller he has set maximum speeds for each speed step for prototypical freight operations. He is a working Engineer for Norfolk Southern and for his layout he has set max speed on notch 8 as 18 mph. The put on the box in Trainz does not work well for low speeds. His notch 1, 2 and 3 are set for 2.5,5, and 8 and then each notch adds 2 up to 18. Any idea what would happen if I only put one pair of values for each notch 1-8? I don’t understand why they use 6 pair or more for each notch. I don’t have space, money, or years left for an HO layout so this is my idea of how to pretend I have one.
 
those are speed (m/s) and force (kn) entries per notch respectively.

You could use the built-in test track to view and tweak engine specs as well:

TRS22_NRaGgJaZ4h.png
 
Last edited:
But the problem is I cannot control by notch settings without switching to realistic controls and I can not see a way to switch control method. I can convert mph to meters per second. Do I leave the force values alone or how do I set them to go with my m/s value and if I only set 1 pair per notch, which one of 6 (or11) do I use?
 
Your request doesn't make a lot of sense. These numbers inside the containers (brackets) are to produce a power curve, just as the one seen in the image. Without defining the range of speed and power within a certain notch there is no way to do this.

let's look at one notch container, in N1 you could have:
Code: 
1 
{ 
   0.00    79.51
   1.94    72.59
   5.81    38.13
   7.75    10.74
   9.69    0.00
}

this means that when you put the locomotive to throttle 1 going 0 m/s, the spec generates 79.51 kN. going 1.94 m/s it makes 72.59 and so on and so on until there is no more power generated at that speed/notch. so going 9.69 m/s there wont be any power left in N1 to produce any pull (so this is max speed in N1). In this case there are 5 data points - that makes the red line on the graph in the image above for what it is worth. So for example the top greenish power curve in the image (max throttle N8) is made by:

Code: 
8 
{ 
0.00    636.10
1.94    608.30
5.81    469.91
7.75    359.92
9.69    287.94
11.62    239.95
13.56    205.67
15.50    179.96
17.43    159.96
19.37    143.97
21.31    130.88
23.24    119.97
25.18    110.74
27.12    102.83
29.06    95.98
30.99    89.98
32.93    0.00
}

so you can see here it tries to apply 636.1 kN if the loco is in N8 and not moving - this is applying full power at a standstill and would most likely cause wheelslip (certainly if this value is above the max-tractive-effort tag in the engine config). At 32.93 m/s, which is the max speed at max throttle, no more power is available. This is fast as you can go as hard as you can go.

You would need at least 2 items in every notch container to move at all, and your power graph would just be a series of linear plots between them. So only using the first and last values is possible but not very useful.
 
Last edited:
Now I think I better understand how the spec works. So, taking the 2.5 mph I want to get at notch 1, the 2.5 x 0.44704 converts that to 1.1176 m/s. So, after the maximum force in notch 1, the speed is 9.69 m/s. 9,69/1.1176 x 2.5=21.7 mph. I only want 2.5 mph. So can I reduce the initial kn in notch 1, to get the speed to only the desired 2.5 mph? If so, how do I calculate and where do I make the change?
 
Radionut44, you need to first talk about the end result you want to achieve. What you envision and how. Only then can you think about how to implement it in training. Right now, you don't have a clearly defined goal. What you're trying to do now likely won't lead to the expected result, especially in cabin mode. You should first get what you want in DSS mode.
 
You can increase the forward throttle a notch in driver by pressing the w key. Decrease by pressing x key. This works in realistic mode and easy mode.
Trainz has a long list of keyboard shortcuts.
 
I want to be able to control SW1500 or a pair of GP38-2 for yard and local switching using Cab control. I want engine spec to set max speed in each of notch 1-8 positions, range from approx 2.5 mph @ n1, 5 @ n2, 8 @n3, then increase by 2 each notch up to 18 mph @ n8. I want to set deceleration for a large value to allow switching to idle, usually from n3 at most, to allow coasting and using amount of brake to come to a smooth stop where desired for spotting cars, etc. As said earlier, I’m using Trainz to emulate a real HO layout of a friend who uses DCC and ProtoThrottle to operate in a prototypical manner as much as possible.
 
Yeah I do not think you will get that here. This is not a speed table it is a power curve; your max speed will be your power output against resistance of whatever you are pulling.

You cant make Cab mode into DCC mode. I really like using the ProtoThrottle to operate model trains as well, but I can't think of a way to do what you are trying to do.
 
norfolksouthern37 said:
but I can't think of a way to do what you are trying to do.
Click to expand...
It's surprising to hear this from someone who's developed so many traction characteristics for such superb models. Well, then you should join the testing.

I propose to try to implement the "technical assignment" according to the above conditions. The DCC mode is also configured.

For radionut44: Your steps
- Add the KUID to the provided config,
- Place the config in a folder and add an image named art_icon,
- Install the folder with the config and image in the content manager,
- Open the desired locomotive for editing, and in its config, in the enginespec tag, enter the KUID you entered in the provided traction characteristic, duplicate this same KUID in the kuid-table, replacing the KUID of the previous traction characteristic,
- Again, in the locomotive config, enter 120,000 in the mass tag,
- Confirm the changes in the locomotive config.

Well, now you can go into the game, place the locomotive on the map, and try it out. Finally, give feedback on what you liked and what you'd like to change or redo.

Let me remind you: after any changes to locomotives, cars, or their traction characteristics, you MUST reinstall all units for which changes were applied.. Otherwise, glitches will occur, especially with air brakes.

Code: 
kuid                                    <                  >
username                                "ProtoThrottle HO loco engine"
kind                                    "engine"
category-class                          "ZE"
trainz-build                            "3.7"
autopilot-stop-distance                 5
autopilot-crawl-distance                50
autopilot-caution-speed-multiplier      0.5
throttle-adjustment-rate                0.5


thumbnails
{
  0
  {
    width                               240
    height                              180
    image                               "art_icon.jpg"
  }
}

flowsize
{
  trainbrakepipe                        170000
  trainbrakepipe_reservoir              0.8
  trainbrakepipevent                    0.5
  compressor                            0.75
  auxreservoirvent                      0.35
  auxreservoir_no3                      0.11
  auxreservoir_trainbrakepipe           0.03
  autobrakecylindervent                 0.03
  auxreservoir_autobrakecylinder        0.45
  equaliser_mainreservoir               0.029
  equaliservent                         0.0205
  equaliserventhandleoff                0.0025
  equaliserventemergency                0.8
  no3pipe_mainreservoir                 0.15
  no3pipe                               5
  no3pipevent                           4.5
  no3pipe_autobrakecylinder             0.15
  no4pipe                               5
  epreservoirpipe                       0
  epreservoirpipe_autobrakecylinder     0
  mainreservoir_ep                      0
  vacuumbrakepipe                       0
  vacuumbrakepipereleasevent            0
  vacuumbrakepipevent                   0
  vacuumbrakereservoir_vacuumbrakepipe  0
  vacuumbrakecylinder_vacuumbrakepipe   0
  highspeedexhauster_vacuumbrakepipe    0
}

volume
{
  scale                                 1
  trainbrakepipe                        0.2
  epreservoirpipe                       0
  no3pipe                               0.2
  no4pipe                               0.2
  auxreservoir                          0.0385
  autobrakecylinder                     0.012
  vacuumbrakepipe                       0
  vacuumbrakereservoir                  0
  vacuumbrakecylinder                   0
  mainreservoir                         11
  equaliser                             0.2
  independantbrakecylinder              0.008
}

pressure
{
  scale                                 1
  compressor                            0.0135
  mainreservoir                         0.0134
  highspeedexhauster                    0
  brakepipe                             0.00736
  brakeinitial                          0.00693
  brakefull                             0.00512
  indbrakefull                          0.0062
  trainbrakepipe_start                  0.00105
  epreservoirpipe_start                 0
  no3pipe_start                         0.00105
  no4pipe_start                         0.00105
  auxreservoir_start                    0.0055
  autobrakecylinder_start               0.0055
  vacuumbrakepipe_start                 0
  vacuumbrakereservoir_start            0
  vacuumbrakecylinder_start             0
  mainreservoir_start                   0.01027
  equaliser_start                       0.00105
  independantbrakecylinder_start        0.00105
}

mass
{
  scale                                 1
  fuel                                  "6.2156e+006"
}

motor
{
  resistance                            0.2
  adhesion                              1
  maxvoltage                            450
  maxspeed                              8.2
  brakeratio                            60000
  max-accel                             35000
  max-decel                             120000
  axle-count                            4
  surface-area                          100
  moving-friction-coefficient           0.02
  air-drag-coefficient                  0.0005
  throttle-notches                      8
}

throttle-power
{
  0
  {
    0                                   0
  }
 
  1
  {
    0                                   48
    0.5                                 40
    1                                   30
    1.1                                 0
  }
 
  2
  {
    0                                   94.5
    0.4                                 87.5
    0.7                                 78.2
    1.1                                 64.2
    1.4                                 53.7
    1.8                                 40.8
    2.2                                 32
    2.3                                 0
  }
 
  3
  {
    0                                   135.3
    0.3                                 129.5
    0.7                                 121.3
    1.2                                 102.7
    1.7                                 81.7
    2.3                                 60.7
    2.8                                 45
    3.5                                 33
    3.6                                 0
  }
 
  4
  {
    0                                   177.3
    0.4                                 173.8
    0.8                                 161
    1.3                                 138.8
    1.9                                 110.8
    2.3                                 89.8
    2.8                                 73.5
    3.3                                 57.2
    3.9                                 43.2
    4.4                                 34
    4.5                                 0
  }
 
  5
  {
    0                                   217
    0.3                                 213.5
    0.8                                 204.2
    1.3                                 180.8
    1.8                                 151.7
    2.3                                 120.2
    2.8                                 100.3
    3.3                                 78.2
    4.1                                 54.8
    4.6                                 42
    5.3                                 36
    5.4                                 0
  }
 
  6
  {
    0                                   267.2
    0.4                                 262.5
    0.8                                 252
    1.2                                 232.2
    1.6                                 211.2
    2                                   182
    2.4                                 155.2
    2.9                                 124.8
    3.4                                 98
    4                                   78.2
    4.7                                 58.3
    5.4                                 46.7
    6.2                                 40
    6.3                                 0
  }
 
  7
  {
    0                                   313.8
    0.7                                 305.7
    1.1                                 294
    1.6                                 270.7
    2                                   241.5
    2.4                                 203
    2.9                                 164.5
    3.5                                 130.7
    4.1                                 101.5
    4.9                                 79.3
    5.5                                 63
    6.3                                 52.5
    7.1                                 46
    7.2                                 0
  }
 
  8
  {
    0                                   350
    0.5                                 348.8
    1.1                                 339.5
    1.6                                 323.2
    2                                   297.5
    2.3                                 273
    2.6                                 242.7
    2.9                                 212.3
    3.3                                 175
    3.7                                 149.3
    4.3                                 120.2
    5                                   95.7
    5.7                                 79.3
    6.4                                 66.5
    7.2                                 59.5
    8                                   58
    8.1                                 0
  }
}

kuid-table
{
}
 
Last edited:
SHEPRom, thank you for your directions and the attached config! I may not get to do much on this between now and Monday, but I am exited to try as soon as possible. Please tell me how I should RESET all the units on the map.
 
radionut44 said:
SHEPRom, thank you for your directions and the attached config! I may not get to do much on this between now and Monday, but I am exited to try as soon as possible. Please tell me how I should RESET all the units on the map.
Click to expand...
Most likely a translation error. Don't reset the units, but reinstall them. Simply delete the locomotive, then reinstall it in the editor, save the session, and then switch to driver mode.

PS: made corrections and clarifications to the post.
 
Last edited:
SHEPRom said:
It's surprising to hear this from someone who's developed so many traction characteristics for such superb models. Well, then you should join the testing.
Click to expand...

I didn't say I couldn't generate the config, I said I can't think of a way to do what he wants to do. I thought at first to do what you have posted here but I do not think this is what he meant. 🤷‍♂️

SHEPRom said:
Let me remind you: after any changes to locomotives, cars, or their traction characteristics, you MUST reinstall all units for which changes were applied.. Otherwise, glitches will occur, especially with air brakes.
Click to expand...

He means remove and replace them again in the session, not delete and reinstall the asset.
 
I have cloned 3 different Sw1500, one that was built-in on TRS22, and 2 others downloaded from DLS. I have changed the enginespec to <kuid:342923:100125> for each of them, but all the cloned versions show as modified, faulty. There must be at least one part of the process that I am not doing correctly. I want to make this work somehow!
 
Found a clue, but I don't know where/how to give a path.
In errors & warnings:
; <kuid:342923:100125> : Loading asset <kuid:342923:100125>
- <kuid:342923:100125> : TADGetSpecFromAsset> asset <kuid:342923:100125> is not available for use
; <kuid:342923:100125> : AssetIndexRec: DebugLogCompatibility> no local or original filepath
Where do I need to place my config.txt file? I placed it in a folder with the kuid number and put it in the same folder as assets I clone.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Tweaking braking for an enginespec - guidance needed.
Replies
7
Views
1K
PortLineParker
P
J
A story about deleted track markers (and I hope you had a Happy Halloween the other night!)
Replies
0
Views
145
JonMyrlennBailey
J
W
Engine Specs: What is realistic?
Replies
2
Views
2K
weevil
W
J
Cab view Boston North Station to Haverhill, MA
Replies
2
Views
984
JCitron
J
M
Tutorial: How to use my SAP Hump Yard Kit for TRS19 or later
2
Replies
30
Views
7K
MSGSapper
M
Back
Top