The three most powerful locomotives on your trainz versions

[jjanmarine3]

Hi guys.
Some stats talk - speaking trainz wise.
I made up a load of 20000 tons in TR10 on the Avery-Drexel route consisting of 140 loaded NOD's and a guards van, coupled ( what I think so far ) the three most powerful locomotives available in my version - steam, diesel and Electric units respectively and took them for a spin up Avery Hill , setting my cut-off point at the 2.1 mile mark by the 1st tunnel. I did not gippo any physics and it was DCC mode. ( got no bucks to dl new tyres from the dls to try in cab mode )

Sweat(r)ing profusely in third place from a max of 7 MPH down to 2 MPH and slowly losing more speed around the 1.2 mile mark is the UPDD40X diesel

Puffing pityfully in a dissappointing second place around the 1.9 mile mark from a max of 8 MPH down to 2 MPH and stalling at the 2 mile mark is MR Big Boy :'(
I won't forgive him

and surprisingly in first place and still humming faithfully and smoothly from a max of 12 MPH at the tunnel entrance is PRRGG1 1

It would be cool and interesting if you guys would tell me what you have found on your available traction units .

Cheers

Jan

 

[kws4000]

For this sort of slow-speed slugging, I would think that an accurate set up of an Erie/VGN Triplex or VGN AE-class 2-10-10-2 would do better than a 4000, they were designed for this stuff.
Any modern NA 6-axle diesel w/ AC motors would do better than a DD40, lot more traction/ ability to put the power to the rail.
Electrics?????

FWIW, all locos you just tried were designed more or less for highspeed ops. Big Boy could hit 83mph w/ 69 inch wheels, the DDs were originally geared for about 90MPH, and GG1s were set for 100.

 

[rweber95]

DCC uses the max-accel parameter in the enginespec motor container. Here are those values for your locos:
UPDD40X - 25000
Big Boy - 30000
PRRGG1 - 45000
So the order in your power test matches the max-accel order.
As Philskene says, DCC is for wimps. CAB mode has more realistic physics so should be a better test.

Bob Weber

 

[llewelyn]

This ties in with something I've been working on, I modified the Avery-Drexel route by the addition of a coal mine near Mullan, then I have a coal train which is the standard "US coal 3000T" set of hoppers plus the Big Boy on the front. Using cheat mode (i.e. DCC) the loco and loaded train (about 2261T in tow, according to the game) charges off up the Lookout pass, easily running at the 30 mph limit. Now, as we know, DCC is a fix. So having used it to test the scenario rules, I go into cab mode... and the train hardly goes up the damn' grade at all.

Now, I'm not an expert steam engine driver but I do know how it works, more or less. Except the the Big Boy in the game just plain don't seem to produce as much steam as I reckon it should. Bearing in mind that the locos (in real life) were designed to haul 3600 tons unassisted (or so I read), albeit on a steep grade this train should be within the ability of the loco, without it keeps on running low on pressure and dropping down to about 4mph.

Anyone got any suggestions as to settings? especially, how does the coal % figure relate to rate of steam production? seems to me that to climb a grade like that you'd want to be shovelling coal like a madman, and have the cutoff and regulator pretty wide open, and in that case the steam blast in the chimney would make a BIG draft in the fire. But trying that just makes the thing grind to a halt.

 

[jjanmarine3]

I have also noticed that different steam locos react differently when in cab mode and using the space bar to open the firedoors and add coal, Some keep up to the session and some lose steam pressure so that it drops to around the 80's.I ran out of steam and coal in TR12 on the Radfield to Bluefield run but I was belting along at around 90MPH with no regard to cut off.
I will be watching with interest to see if someone knows how to change those ratings you mention.Overall I think the ratings are reasonably accurate though.A good test of ones drivability skills is in TR2006 getting Big Boy up the hill in the Big Steam Grade session in Tidewater North . No chance at all with 100% cut off setting....Perhaps you should use those settings if you can find them as they seem quite realistic. One can play with the physics in 'edit session' but that would be cheating
I am not sure about the relation of coal % to rate of steam you mention.
I have not tried Cab Mode on the Avery run with Big Boy, but I am going to . I will also try the Mountain Type, that loco has amazing power.

 

[jjanmarine3]

This ties in with something I've been working on, I modified the Avery-Drexel route by the addition of a coal mine near Mullan, then I have a coal train which is the standard "US coal 3000T" set of hoppers plus the Big Boy on the front. Using cheat mode (i.e. DCC) the loco and loaded train (about 2261T in tow, according to the game) charges off up the Lookout pass, easily running at the 30 mph limit. Now, as we know, DCC is a fix. So having used it to test the scenario rules, I go into cab mode... and the train hardly goes up the damn' grade at all.

Now, I'm not an expert steam engine driver but I do know how it works, more or less. Except the the Big Boy in the game just plain don't seem to produce as much steam as I reckon it should. Bearing in mind that the locos (in real life) were designed to haul 3600 tons unassisted (or so I read), albeit on a steep grade this train should be within the ability of the loco, without it keeps on running low on pressure and dropping down to about 4mph.

Anyone got any suggestions as to settings? especially, how does the coal % figure relate to rate of steam production? seems to me that to climb a grade like that you'd want to be shovelling coal like a madman, and have the cutoff and regulator pretty wide open, and in that case the steam blast in the chimney would make a BIG draft in the fire. But trying that just makes the thing grind to a halt.

This thing is not easy to do ! Maybe there is a veteran steam driver or someone skillfull somewhere on the forum who can give us some tips on how to fire and conserve energy correctly..The blower and space bar is important here too I guess. I did time on steam as a fitter not a driver .
I took Big Boy for a spin up Avery in Cab Mode lugging 2000 tons. We must not forget that this is a very long hill ( unlike in the Big Steam grade ) and the gradient gets steeper . I made it to a mile or two from Falcon running at between 10 and 24 MPH , treating her like a baby ..but I came to a stop with no coal in the tender and 72 PSI steam left in the boiler.One will have to place a Steam Filling Station around Big Dick Creek I think..Meanwhile I let the steam build up again to around 125 PSI ( last gasp ? ) and gave the driver instruction then to carry on to Falcon, and the train did move again , but then I was tired of shovelling coal ...I checked and had polluted the air with 200 ton of coal smoke...the train weight was down to around 1875 tons.
Cheers
Jan

 

[llewelyn]

(apologies to any that know all the following, also feel free to correct me on any errors!)
Well, on a real steam loco, you have more draft when you either put the blower on or when it's running. When running, you don't use the blower, mostly, as the steam exhaust goes up the chimney and creates draft anyway. the more steam used, the more draft, and the more coal you can feed, making a hotter fire and more steam. Obviously, there's a limit for any given loco how much steam it can create. 75% cutoff is commonly maximum, and roughly that means you feed live steam into the cylinders via the regulator for 75% of the piston stroke. This gives the maximum tractive effort but uses a lot of steam, typically, it's only used to get it rolling. Once on the move move the cutoff (also known as a reverser because it also does that job) back so that the live steam feed into the cylinders is cut off at anything down to 25% or less, then the steam expands in the cylinder, still putting pressure on the piston, and using much less steam. The regulator limits the amount of steam going from the boiler into the steam chest (which in turn supplies the cylinders, when the valves open) and hence affects (indirectly) the pressure in the steam chest. So generally, it's a balance between the regulator and the cutoff. Initially, you have to go steady on the regulator or you get wheel slip, but once the train's rolling you would tend to open up the regulator more and back off the cutoff, thereby controlling the speed. When you come to a steep grade, you'd have the regulator quite wide so as to get good pressure in the cylinders, and increase the cutoff to gain more power - but if you overdo it, you lose boiler pressure and the train slows down and, if you really screw up, may even stall. Then you have to put the brakes on, and rebuild the boiler pressure. What seems to be going on with the Big Boy is that it's not making as much steam as I'd expect. I do expect it to slow down - notwithstanding that the Big Boy was capable of pretty high speed for a freight loco, most of the time it'd be doing more like 20 mph. However, having it slow down to 4mph is bit much.

 

[llewelyn]

This thing is not easy to do ! Maybe there is a veteran steam driver or someone skillfull somewhere on the forum who can give us some tips on how to fire and conserve energy correctly..The blower and space bar is important here too I guess. I did time on steam as a fitter not a driver .
I took Big Boy for a spin up Avery in Cab Mode lugging 2000 tons. We must not forget that this is a very long hill ( unlike in the Big Steam grade ) and the gradient gets steeper . I made it to a mile or two from Falcon running at between 10 and 24 MPH , treating her like a baby ..but I came to a stop with no coal in the tender and 72 PSI steam left in the boiler.One will have to place a Steam Filling Station around Big Dick Creek I think..Meanwhile I let the steam build up again to around 125 PSI ( last gasp ? ) and gave the driver instruction then to carry on to Falcon, and the train did move again , but then I was tired of shovelling coal ...I checked and had polluted the air with 200 ton of coal smoke...the train weight was down to around 1875 tons.
Cheers
Jan

I've yet to get it to run out of coal, maybe I haven't enabled that in the scenario! I did wonder whether to install water towers I'm aiming for 60s era with this one, also hunted out some early milwaukee road electric locos to put on an AI train, and another train with MR GP9s. The session is getting there, got the switching for running around the train and turning the loco in the wye at Haugan automated now

 

[llewelyn]

Further study suggests that the Big Boy was designed to haul 3600 tons on a 1.14% grade, unaided. so maybe I'm a bit ambitious in expecting it to do 2200 tons on a grade that is over 3% in places. As for the water/coal thing, the water and coal % figures are, I trust you know, the water in the boiler and the coal in the fire. You want to try to maintain the water figure somewhere around 60-75% I think, using the injector. Notice there are 2 injectors, that's not because you need them both, but so that either the fireman or the driver can inject water (also, in my experience, injectors don't always work, so it's handy having a backup!) The injectors on the in-game model appear to be able to work at variable rates (which I never really got the hang of, myself, it was more of an on-off thing) although I guess if you're good enough, that's prototypical.

There's another challenge and that's to reduce the steam production to next-to-zero at the summit of the pass, since you hardly need any steam on the descent, except for example to run the brake pump.

Today's effort had the loco stalled on the grade up from Mullen, then after building the steam back up to 300 psi, she took off like a good'un. however, you can't maintain that rate of progress for long...

 

[jjanmarine3]

I see there is a 'steam chest' reading too which must play a part too. What really gets tricky is when you are pulling with multiple Big Boys each one of them requires individual attention on the run...:'( I used 6 once on 20000 ton up the hill and flew up at over 80 MPH in places - but - using DCC mode . The trains get too long though and the crossing places are too short to let the signals work and the red lights catch you.
One of the pop-ups on the way up states that there was a steam facility up there on the hill long ago , ( FYI in the session you are building ) they probably banked the loads too ( helped at the back ) too like they do here on our coal line where 6 or 7 11E electric units haul the 200 truck coal trains , failures etc, especially when the 'up' line is closed for a reason/s somewhere and they then use the 'down' line which has steeper gradients and used for the empty returns.They place 37000 class GM diesels in strategic places to bank.
I noticed that the water seemed to last so not sure if towers are needed in between up to the facility but I don't think so.