The good old days

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JCitron said:
I've never seen you as a gimme pig, but one who has asked some great questions. Like how do you go about building a route! That was one of the biggest questions that people ask all the time, but you got the creative juices going and suggestions from lots of "old timers" here.
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John - Well, I can clearly tell that route building is completely diffrent from MSTS to Trainz with the little fooling around that I have done in the RE (Surveryor). While I havent had Trainz for 2 weeks as of yet. I am very curious about building some kind of fantasy route at some point. Right now, I am just downloading a number of routes and enjoying them. While some of them are great and some of them that are not that great. Atleast, Those route builders brought something to the community which a number of people have never done. As for me when it comes to routes. If I start a route and am not satisfied with the route itself. The release will not happen until I feel that I am satisfied with the route itself. Thats just how I am.
 
The internet is a natural magnet for weenies, they quickly run out of people in their home towns that will pay any attention to them, and after the internet was invented they found a whole new bunch of people to annoy. The other problem is clash of cultures, you're going to meet a lot of people who were not raised the way you were or with the same values and standards of behavior, so if you're easily offended you really should stay off the internet. WWW stands for World Wide Web, it's a big world with many different types of people in it. Including Australians, who are so weird they don't seem to mind living upside down on the bottom of the world. ;)

People also come and go, and quite frankly I find most of these "this forum is going to the dogs" threads to be much ado about nothing.

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=62576

Turns out that one was talking about a single incident, many are like that;

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?203108-A-sorry-state-of-affairs...

"A sickening trend" which turned out to be an isolated problem with one individual that wasn't even on that forum, oh no, trainsim.com is DOOMED! :'( Somehow we managed to survive another seven years despite someone posting a new "this forum is getting worse every day" thread every couple of months, and that one wasn't the first.
 
sniper297 said:
The internet is a natural magnet for weenies, they quickly run out of people in their home towns that will pay any attention to them, and after the internet was invented they found a whole new bunch of people to annoy. The other problem is clash of cultures, you're going to meet a lot of people who were not raised the way you were or with the same values and standards of behavior, so if you're easily offended you really should stay off the internet. WWW stands for World Wide Web, it's a big world with many different types of people in it. Including Australians, who are so weird they don't seem to mind living upside down on the bottom of the world. ;)

People also come and go, and quite frankly I find most of these "this forum is going to the dogs" threads to be much ado about nothing.

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=62576

Turns out that one was talking about a single incident, many are like that;

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?203108-A-sorry-state-of-affairs...

"A sickening trend" which turned out to be an isolated problem with one individual that wasn't even on that forum, oh no, trainsim.com is DOOMED! :'( Somehow we managed to survive another seven years despite someone posting a new "this forum is getting worse every day" thread every couple of months, and that one wasn't the first.
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Excellent points sniper. Another thing to consider is the nature of this type of message board is predominantly for those that are needing help, seeking advice, and often stuck trying to figure out some problem. In many of these cases the poster is at the point of frustration and may or may not have been trying to resolve their issue for hours or days. So they come to the board in a somwewhat heated attitude. I'm not saying that's right but it is human nature.

Though it does occur, it is less often that people come here to express delight and satisfaction with something about the progrram because during those times they are having too much enjoyment to stop and post the pleasantries. I think that's part of human nature too.

I've worked in a technical support role before and the only calls you get are from unsatisfied customers. You rarely if ever get the calls saying hey, your product is great. This board, in the nature of it's support role, is much like that. And you are right on sniper when you point out that we should not let ourself be offended easily here and we shouldn't take any of it personally. I never take anything personally on any message board because, with a few exceptions, I don't personally know anyone on the message board and they don't know me. So they nor I have enough data on each other to make any offensive comments about each other that could be meaningful.

I may post about issues that I believe should be addressed but I usually point out that this is indeed a great program and I don't think anyone can ever take that away from it.
 
What's worse...

:cool: Back in TRS2004 dayz, there were so many people that would start a project, everyone would get excited & post encouragement & then the content creator would loose interest....

The moderators came up with a rule than unless you were an "accomplished content creator" to not post a new project until it was done, penalty being removal of the thread & possible disciplinary action!

It is quite natural for anyone to ask for an asset to be made, but replying with a snide attitude that they 'should do it themselves,' or not be a 'gimmie-pig' does not do any good, because it is a recurring topic with about 30% of new users.

These posts are the one's to avoid if you feel your blood pressure rising. Back then gmax was a primary source of mesh creation, but today mentioning gmax signals Blender users to come out in force...:hehe: or starts an argument about 3dsMax...:sleep:

And by the way, I have realized that the name "Auran" is a legacy reference...it is now NV3 Games Proprietary Limited all the way or not at all. Trainz is a significant party because of the faithful following, but just a part of the big picture...however that is good, because there is a heavyweight backing the program. Key persons from the past are still present, if only in the background that are here for us.

I think the greatest advantage we have is that running a train is a slow process of learning & HSR not withstanding, many people would loose interest & go away if no one paid attention to their petty argumentative attitude..."you can't fix stupid!"
 
PerRock said:
Where have all the good old days in Trainz gone? I remember back when folks helped each other out in their creations. Just about anything was considered a "good" screenshot. People joked, people laughed, it was a fun place to hang out with a fun community and a fun game.

However these days it seems that most people are here to accuse people of doing things (namely stealing), make a dime off from anything, poke fun at the new guys, chew people out, and argue over which simulator is better.

What happened? I used to enjoy coming over here to talk with people, have a few laughs and enjoy Trainz. Now a days I spend very little time in the community, I breeze in look at some screenshots (maybe post a few) and leave.

peter
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Thats exactly what I asked a while ago.
I used trainz 2004 for 2-3 years, got TRS06 and was very let down by it.
I had a year off, accessed the forum to find that everything had changed and now its barely used.

It's kinda scary how poor the forum is nowadays compared to the good old black TRS2004 forum.

Also, i dont think that doing anything with trainz takes an age now compared to anything else helps. It takes less time to format my computer and reinstall everything than it does to reinstall trainz and in some cases just the TRS2010:EE SP1
 
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Very good point

some people might have nothing better to do than complain to other members and be jerks. I hav found that forums are still a great way to get answers and communicate. Ps. Peter i loved your content mostly the Viewliners:)
 
No surprise really, but it still amazes me how each person has their own perception of events. It reminds me of the studies done to demonstrate the unreliability of witness testimony to a crime. Personally I see the forum as improving all the time. We all have posted unfortunate things in the past, but usually members mature, improve, or move on. I like to see controversial threads now and again, because it would be quite boring here without the occasional spice thrown in.
 
Perhaps the whole Trainz culture has changed not only by the ever increasing age range of users (and corresponding range of interests), but also by the ongoing churning out of the "latest and greatest" which has effectively fragmented the Trainzers. I too can remember a different culture around TRS2004 and the closest I can get to that now is the smaller user base of TC3. I recall an excellent job of support and assistance by both the TC3 crew and the users ............. but then it was replaced by another "latest and greatest", and so the cycle will no doubt continue.

Regards to all Trainzers..... whatever version your are using!

Colin.
 
I'm of the humble opinion that the forum is a sign of the success of Trainz in that is is now a far larger community of users than that of the halcyon days. The 'downside' is that this also means a still larger amount of differing opinions, manners, attitudes, etc. and all the apparent dischord that can on occassions ensue.

I have only been aboard since TS06 but didn't really start posting here until I got TS09 due to various issues I had then. I was wary of posting, being a newbie to the forum, so I ensured that my posts were polite and did my utmost to search for a solution before posting. I found that the experienced members were exceedingly helpful and there was someone with a solution to my problems 99.9% of the time.

I think that even in the short amount of time that has since passed, a great number of new members don't bother to try finding anything out for themselves and make constant demands with rarely a word of thanks but even though, I still know there are a great number of users who will provide an answer. I would like to think I could count myself among them in my limited ability to be able to help.

Some of these 'upstarts' will quickly loose interest and never be seen again, while others will come to realise the best way to get help is by asking in the right way and one day, hopefully, become seasoned and valued members of the community.

I would like to think there are some out there who recognise me as I do them and want you all to know that I am very happy to be a member of the forum (don't quote any of my previous rants here!!!) and genuinely feel the sense of belonging to a community of like minded individuals here.
 
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sniper297 said:
WWW stands for World Wide Web, it's a big world with many different types of people in it. Including Australians, who are so weird they don't seem to mind living upside down on the bottom of the world. ;)

G'day sniper, owyagoinmatealright. You do realise that we "downunders" keep the world balanced. if we all moved uptop then the world would tip over and everyone would be living upside down. May your chooks turn into emus and kick your dunny down. Avagoodaymate.

Doug
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Peter, very good post !

I remember being here from DAY 1. We were all waiting (without a single notion of what is "patience") for Trainz CE.

Every single day, we spent time on Auran's forum, trying to get some infos of what it'll be.

And, we were all dreaming. Dreaming of doing superb layouts or (in my case) some real routes.

When we received our parcels, we were (1st) really glad and (2nd) somewhere disapointed. But the fun of the adventure remained.

Service Pack 1 arrived and it fixed many minor or even major bugs. So, those were the days !

Now, i beleive that Auran's staff is no longer what it was. Greg, John, Chuck, Bruce aren't here any more.

Things are going fast ! From Trainz CE, we're living now the Trainz 2012 edition ... Wow ! Even Apple computers can run the simulator, and to mention it, some cell phones (i believe) are able to do so !

Signs of the times wich are changing.

We can reheat a souffle (if i spell it right) It was just what it was, unfortunatly, we can't go back in time except if there's one Marty Mc Bride here.

Cheers,

André.
 
Well I haven't been here since day 1. Good grief!!!!! That would make you as old as Methuselah:D . I'm only 61. I have been here for quite a while though. And I will confess I am guilty of leaving here and Trainz for MSTS more than a couple of times. And also guilty of posting some rather rude posts. I think most of the rude stuff comes from frustration that Trainz doesn't do what people think it's supposed to do or what it's advertised to do. Since recently returning I have made an interesting observation. People posting here can be divided into different groups. You have the newbs. Lots of those guys and I like to help them any way I can. I recently posted about a program called "EndItAll" that automatically shuts down background programs to free up resources on your comp. It's freeware, and while not perfect, does pretty good. May help make Trainz run smoother.

Then there are the "veterans" with thousands of posts and a huge knowledge of the game. Sheesh!!! Thousands of posts boggles the mind. Most of them are very helpful and are patient. A few that are a bit "testy", but I try and give them the respect they are due and have earned.

And finally, there are....well....I can only describe them as "Kool-Aid drinkers", as in the Jim Jones/Guiana variety. They think and act like Trainz is the ultimate incarnation of a railroad sim. They are like religious followers and fanatics. Say one disparaging word or constructive criticism about Trainz and they come out of the woodwork to slap you down and sentence you to hellfire and brimstone for eternity. I mostly find these folks amusing. Although I am glad they aren't my next-door neighbors :D

The "good old days" for me is more concerend with the immense enjoyment I got out of TRS2004 and downloading assets and driving the trains. Unfortunately, that has disappeared for some reason. A simple loop of track in the training session of 2004 stands out in my mind more than anything else. It had industries to be supplied and it was a blast to keep everything working. The closest I have come to that in TS2010 was a session with a very short strip of track where you had to drop off freight cars at certain locations. Sometimes simple can be more fun than ultra-complex. At least, for me. :)
BTW...I never even knew there was an ignore list and I would never make use of it.
 
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I remember when I first got started in Trainz back in 2007, it was really nice! Now it sucks that a lot of content developers are gone and there is almost no content available for TRS 2006. I may actually consider quitting this game altogether....
 
xero said:
I remember when I first got started in Trainz back in 2007, it was really nice! Now it sucks that a lot of content developers are gone and there is almost no content available for TRS 2006. I may actually consider quitting this game altogether....
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I agree. I've got tons of content of 2006, but nowhere to upload it all since it's not allowed here. If I save my allowance I might host a website but that's not in the near future.
 
JimDep said:
I agree. I've got tons of content of 2006, but nowhere to upload it all since it's not allowed here. If I save my allowance I might host a website but that's not in the near future.
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In the telecommunications industry, the easiest way to force customers to abandon their existing system to upgrade or purchase the newest systems is to simply stop supporting the older systems. Maybe some of that is going on in a lot of other industries. I see no reason why they don't want 2006 content uploads. Heck, they even have the check marks to search by release type already built into the DLS.

Hey Dep, your comment, "I can only describe them as "Kool-Aid drinkers", that's priceless. LOL! :)
 
Apollo43 said:
In the telecommunications industry, the easiest way to force customers to abandon their existing system to upgrade or purchase the newest systems is to simply stop supporting the older systems. Maybe some of that is going on in a lot of other industries. I see no reason why they don't want 2006 content uploads. Heck, they even have the check marks to search by release type already built into the DLS.

Hey Dep, your comment, "I can only describe them as "Kool-Aid drinkers", that's priceless. LOL! :)
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This happens in a lot of industries, besides the TELCO. The graphics industry is filled with many forced upgrades. Adobe, for example comes up with new versions that sort of support their older products, and people are forced to go to the new version of whatever to be compatible with everyone else. There are other companies that do the same such as ProEngineer, among others. Their Cad products are a real pain. If a company needs to upgrade, they have to export their data to the new version then import it into the new one. There's no open and save new, or at least there wasn't a few years ago when I used to support the platform.

TRS2006, as good as it was in its day, is no picnic compared to the current versions. TS2010 and TS12 have no where the number of crashes as TRS2006 ever had. These are not perfect applications, but they're a lot better, and show the direction the program is going in. I remember CMP taking a snit way too often, particularly if there were lots of downloads. The program its self would run out of memory and crash right to the desktop even under Vista, which was/is no picnic either.

Anyway dropping the support for the older products, yes is a forced upgrade, but also helped N3V streamline their support operation and make everything else go smoother as a result. Remember. Many of the people that supported TRS2006 are no longer at Auran. They've since been let go, and this makes supporting the applications more difficult because that knowledge base isn't there anymore. Yes, stuff might be written down, but it's the undocumented knowledge that is lost when help is let go. I've seen this firsthand quite a number of times. My old company, a former Polaroid spin-off, went into a downward spiral very similar to Auran's. As people left, it became very difficult supporting the older products because that knowledge bank was no longer there.

By supported what is most current, this gives the limited staff an opportunity to focus on making the current products better, and to come out with future products instead of focusing their limited resources and efforts on older products.

John
 
ct_krogen said:
why don't you upload itto trainzpro routes web site
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I probably should see if they'd take it. It is kind of a let down for me as I was one of the people that was trying to get all the content to stay at one central location, the DLS, so that users wouldn't have to spend so much time searching for missing KUIDS, which has always been a major complaint.

Right at the time I was beginning to upload to the DLS. After getting everything properly categorized and fine tuned, Auran (N3V) made the announcement about dropping Trainz Classics, 2006 and previous content from the DLS. Even though the deadline was a few months away, it didn't make much sense to upload over 1000 KUIDS just to have them get scrapped in the near future.

Short story long, I need to make a decision on hosting a website or uploading it elsewhere. There's a lot of content that I didn't want to burden one site with, but I also didn't want it spread around, being that it also correlates with a route I've been working on for over 5 years. What was once a fun addiction turned into a disappointing mess. I've had enough snide comments i.e. "get over it" that I find the inspiration less than what it used to be.
 
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JimDep said:
I probably should see if they'd take it. It is kind of a let down for me as I was one of the people that was trying to get all the content to stay at one central location, the DLS, so that users wouldn't have to spend so much time searching for missing KUIDS, which has always been a major complaint.

Right at the time I was beginning to upload to the DLS. After getting everything properly categorized and fine tuned, Auran (N3V) made the announcement about dropping Trainz Classics, 2006 and previous content from the DLS. Even though the deadline was a few months away, it didn't make much sense to upload over 1000 KUIDS just to have them get scrapped in the near future.

Short story long, I need to make a decision on hosting a website or uploading it elsewhere. There's a lot of content that I didn't want to burden once site with, but I also didn't want it spread around, being that it also correlates with a route I've been working on for over 5 years. What was once a fun addiction turned into a disappointing mess. I've had enough snide comments i.e. "get over it" that I find the inspiration less than what it used to be.
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Jim,

I'm sure the folks over at TPR would welcome your content. :) They're great guys over there - Ed, Meridous, and others I can't remember offhand because my brains have become flatlined!

Don't let the buggers get you down. They do that to make their own misery bigger than yours. Sadly in some ways, people can be like birds, dogs and cats. I own all three types and I see that happen all the time amongst the species!

John
 
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