The future

[7121239]

I read through postings daily as I have done for many years - ticking over is how I would describe it. New generations taking over with all the same problems to solve as we had................again and again - the driving force has gone - it's just not there. The characters have gone, there're just not there.................
I tried to entice a few comments re Trainz Newsletter being simply a sales pitch but nobody re-acted, simply confirming my view. A Trainz Newsletter should contain news.....come-on.........or don't we care anymore!!
I really enjoy scenarios as an interactive part of the software but feel the whole process of accessing these is far too elaborate with extra payments for this and that, and should be much more accessable. I'm starting to yawn at the whole thing.
I have always tried to fully enjoy each stage in the Trainz process, currently at 2009, but wonder if there is any point in moving on.
I want to move on, whatever!.

Regards to all,

Ian
7121239

 

[rjhowie]

There is an old saying that one man's meat is another man's poison (!). The more emotional enthusiast will go hammers and tongs and expect everyone else in the hobby to be of the same mould. Others who are more perhaps sedate in their attitude will see such as too near being over the top and so on. We are mixed bunch here and a broad spectrum of attitudes and opinions.

I started with 2004 then moved on to 2006. I still have 2006 on my pc where my Trainz is based but trying out 2009 on my laptop to get used to it. Over this period I have had times of great effort and other times I am not in the mood. However the underlying thing for me is that it keeps my grey cells from, well, being too grey! It is relaxing and enjoyable and I can disappear into my world of achievement. My extremely now long gone large city tramway is a practical appreciation of what was once the second largest in the whole of Gt Britain. My second project is a little awkward as I am building the whole of a rail system not in my country and I have to fly over or take a ship to do some recce. So Trainz encourages me to save from being too routine and I intend going over for a third visit as an excuse to get away!

For me I keep Trainz in perspective as a valuable hobby and when I am sometimes not well it encourages me to stop navel gazing and get off my backside and get on with it! Perhaps if things seem quiet then that may be a phase but whether it is as negative as thought could be open to discussion?

 

[narrowgauge]

7121239

I can understand your point, the forum now is not the same as it was, there seems to be a greater number of younger members which has an effect on the level of comment. Before you take the final step, have a go at content creation, GMax is still available, it is perfectly satisfactory for TS2010 or TS2009, or if you want an alternative, I am told that Blender is also suitable.

I will admit that if it had not been possible to create content for Trainz I would have left long ago.

Peter

 

[7121239]

Thanks for your speedy responses guys. You give me the encouragement to keep going. I suppose I am searching for something that has long gone and should perhaps, re-focus. I can't get away from the fact that this software and some others, actually fulfilled what I had been looking for and totally amazed me. Today, these kind of things seem to happen all the time and are just accepted as normal.
I suppose it's onwards and upwards.

Cheers,

Ian
7121239

 

[angelah]

What people expect...

When I found the program Trainz it was called just that, the first version, and I was quite amazed. Then Henke suggested I get UTC which I did and 2004 followed that and each time I was still amazed at the progress and extra things that could be done.
Now it seems advances are expected rather than welcomed and admired (just my view). Each time a new version comes out it gets hammered with 'This is wrong' or 'That is wrong' and the disc is hardly out of the packaging. Many of these problems are caused by the way individual computers are set up, not the Trainz program, so work to get it running is going to be necessary and blaming Auran for everything will not solve your problems.
The early versions had faults as well but they were worked on and from those corrections came our latest offerings.
One problem is that people expect more and more each time so there are new problems that come with the new disc that need solving exactly the same way as with previous discs. Patience is a virtue....

What I have noticed is the seemingless endless questions on the forum about the same subject. The program has a problem and everybody that buys it seems to want to post instead of looking through other posts first.
I find the forum boring now so only look at certain sections.
Some posts are incomprehensible either through appalling spelling or this text talk or whatever it's called, or lack of punctuation. Good English is vital in all walks of life, not just the Trainz forum.

And when I stopped building routes gmax came to the rescue and I love it. So if anybody gets bored with Trainz itself why not give content creation a go either in gmax or Blender, both are free to go and get and both work well. I have found making assets fascinating, annoying, frustrating, satisfying and amazing all at once, not to mention difficult at times. I have had a 'helper' who has had unending patience with a sea of questions from me and you will need help, no doubt about it. If in doubt post in the Content Creation section, there are many willing helpers and much advice in there.

But in the end there is a feeling of great satisfaction and achievement. So if you are getting dull in Trainz give making things a shot.

Angela

 

[pfx]

@ angelah.

My personal view is that Trainz is a great and versatile program. I guess that for every negative comment on the forums, there are hundreds of others who don't have such problems. I am one of those lucky ones so my posts generally offer help or seek information from other members.

Periodically, I need to take a break from route building so I don't get bored. Depending on the amount of work you're willing to put in, it can take a great deal of time (current route is onto board 3 after over 6 weeks worth of work). One thing I know is that I always come back, eventually.

Like yourself, I have resorted to only looking in 5 sections of the forum as I find the repetition unbelievable and language and content of so many posts are dreadful. Anyone recognise "DLS is down?" This will appear on 4 or 5 seperate posts everytime it happens. I really have to restrain myself from unleashing sarcasm on some posters who either can't be bothered doing a search or are unaware that the facility is there. Criticism is not permitted either according to some.

Rant over though. I'm a big fan of Trainz and will be for as long as I'm able to use it. One of these days I might even find the time to make a start on GMAX and produce some assets of my own. I'm satisfied with reskinning for the time being.

 

[ray_whiley]

I fully agree with Angela's comment that "some posts are incomprehensible either through appalling spelling or this text talk or whatever it's called, or lack of punctuation. Good English is vital in all walks of life, not just the Trainz forum."

One can understand errors in language being made by non-native speakers, but there can be no excuse for anyone whose mother-tongue (I hope that's not sexist!) is English. I have often felt that some contributors to the forums deliberately use poor grammar and/or spelling, perhaps in an attempt to make themselves appear "with it" (whatever "it" is!)

However, it is not only in English. After a working life in which the French language was important, I often look at the French forum. Unfortunately, there is much of it which is not in the French I understand! - and I thought that this was a nation which took pride in its own language, often attempting to exclude modern imports. The spelling is frequently atrocious and could be bettered by many a GCSE student!

Ray

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.
I think almost all of us posting on this thread come from an older generation where such things as correct spelling and explaining yourself clearly was an absolute must if you expected anyone to take you seriously. With that in mind whenever I am reading the postings on the forum I try to make allowances for the fact that the above disciplines are not considered priorities today.

However, leaving spelling to one side, what does annoy me is the number of "one line postings" where the member makes no attempt to explain the the situation or problem in any way that a reasonably intelligent person would understand.

2010 update not working, DLS not working, anyone making a GV 67. The foregoing are the kind of postings you often see. They are not the header but the actual line that everybody is expected to understand. I often think to myself, why should I try to understand what he is asking if he cannot make the effort to explain himself clearly in the first place.

Having said all that, I am sure that for many thousands of us Trainz has given many hours of pleasure and enjoyment that turns it into a great hobby. I have never learned to make content but content myself with route building often laughing at my own efforts when everything goes wrong.

It's a shame that the forum has lost its constructive comment and humor in only the couple of years that I have been a member. But let's remember the good side of our hobby and leave the negative side for others.

Earlier on this evening I posted on the John Lennon thread which had been hijacked by a lot of personal argument. I have posted on my memories of the Beatles and John Lennon that were perceived actually in the 60s. If anybody would like to comment on that I would be interested especially from those who actually remember him from his time.

Bill

 

[itareus]

......Now it seems advances are expected rather than welcomed and admired (just my view). Each time a new version comes out it gets hammered with 'This is wrong' or 'That is wrong' and the disc is hardly out of the packaging. Many of these problems are caused by the way individual computers are set up, not the Trainz program, so work to get it running is going to be necessary and blaming Auran for everything will not solve your problems......

Very true Angela - I especially agree with the "and the disc is hardly out of the packaging" and "problems are caused by the way individual computers are set up" parts!

I also agree that there are far too many repeat posts about the same old problems on the forum. In my opinion this is, at least in part, caused by the lack of documentation (online help) provided by Auran through the Helpdesk link or by other means. Auran would probably save themselves a lot of helpdesk time (= cost) by addressing this issue. That said some people would still post a question rather than doing a little research for themselves.

As for the "text speak": Nuff sed.....

(Just my view also ).

 

[sparky15]

Forums are what the users make them.

This used to be a cool place but that changed with the release of TS2010. No longer could you complain or praise anything. A staunch 2010 or nothing crowd took over, made worse after the support announcements. I saw creators bashed as incompetent and the name Luddite thrown around, and that wasn't the only one. What ever it took to quiet the people who weren't happy with the new release. Never seen that with any other release.

Same questions over and over. Well, there are new users. How do you search a problem when you aren't sure what it is? But, the usual will jump in and berate that poster for not searching. That will bring them back.

One line questions. What about the one line answers? Mine works fine, now there's some help. Must be you, another treasure.

Text speak, agree totally. But, how do you know who is actually typing that post? Is English their native language? How old are they, have a disability? A two page bash fest on a user to find out he was Autistic. More beat downs for someone's spelling, only to find out they have a hearing problem. I'll be more than happy to find those if you like. If you can't bring yourself to answer a post for spelling, you need to look somewhere else for the real problem.

I never considered Trainz a game. It's more of a hobby for the space challenged. I have been lucky to have been involved in hobbies where I made great friends of all ages. Sadly, this isn't one of them. I have never seen such a group so willing to jump on anyone and everything. Don't like the new version, move along. Have a spelling problem, take it someplace else.

Euphod summed it up best a while back. "In a few years there will only be a few here talking to themselves." Looks like he's right. This is no longer a place to come and share ideas or learn. It has turned into a user moderated forum more concerned with spelling or which version you use rather than a place to promote a fun and interesting hobby where all are welcome. More of a snake pit.

NOT singling anyone in this thread at all. For the most part you are all pretty level headed. Just an observation of the majority that seems to be taking over here.

Dave......

 

[Ernest2d6]

I'm new, I still find the forum useful. Ive been copy n pasting opinions and helpful factoids as I go along. This forum is still my second site on my browsing list. It would be nice if we had a search for the forum.

Playing sessions that came with 10 when I have time, and digging through the layout seeking ideas and making notes.

I notice that the steam engines I downloaded don't show on 10 so that's another project to fix them.

I like Trainz 2010 for one big reason, the putter factor, its never ending learning and doing, like an good MMOG. futzing around just doing stuff and leaning thing I would have never learn if i didn't bother down loading the game.

Too bad its not easy to start and too bad auto update doesn't work, too bad the patching doesn't have clear warnings, its the little things that sell.

 

[narrowgauge]

I can understand Sparky's concerns but nevertheless I agree with Angela, in fact I am surprised that there is not more angst about the points she raises, on the whole, the forum is very restrained and polite. The point has to be made that we can only judge people by the posts they make, and too many are just carelessly written without any concern for spelling or grammar.

There is a potential problem that some may be challenged in some way with Autism or deafness, we can only learn that if they tell us, if we don't know, they will be treated as we would expect to be treated ourselves.

Our educators have forgotten that in the real world, written comunication is important, letters written by some of our posters would be ignored completely. What should we do, ignore them? Perhaps by pointing out their errors we would be doing them a service. Posting on the forum is not time constrained, posters have ample time to check their spelling. My typing skills are practically non-existent but I do take care to ensure that my many errors are corrected. Any that do get through I will correct using the edit facility, something that seems to be ignored.

A side point on this, as computers become more and more part of our life, typing is generally the method of interaction and computers do not tolerate bad spelling, how would some of our posters fare? I refer here to data entry and programming, I know that they will accept any old garbage for correspondence.

I have visited this forum almost on a daily basis since 2001 and it has changed and not for the better but as this is my one and only hobby I still keep coming back. About the discussions regarding TS2009 and TS2010, the loudest voices were those reluctant to move forward, if every anti-TS20XX post had been answered by a pro-TS20XX post, post counts would have risen sharply.

That is enough, Angela, you have my vote.

Peter

 

[narrowgauge]

Ernest2d6

we had a search for the forum

We do have a search function, top menu bar, the basic one is reasonable, the Advanced search is much more effective.

Peter

 

[HiBaller]

This is one thread I feel I must respond to also. Everyone who has posted here in this thread do tend to be long-term Trainzers. This is a good thing, and, if emulated by some of the more recent members of the Trainz community would certainly make things easier.

There has been a great shift in the forum population, as Peter says, as it tends to be much younger now. Text-speak, whether we like it or not, will creep into posts. Some of it is completely inane and has no part of this community, but almost everyone uses it to some degree. AFAIK, for instance, appears even in very long term members vocabulary.

Trainz is a hobby, I read a few posts back. I agree with that sentiment but hasten to add that even as a hobby it can command quite a bit of your time. I do find myself allocating much less time to the forum than I did even two years ago. When the "old" forum crashed, so did a lot of what I'd term 'camaraderie'. We need to build that back up, but it seems as if most of the new members, being younger (and I am definitely NOT riffing on them for that), don't have the time to spend on their computers for 'just a hobby'. Schoolwork, career work, and other tasks overshadow Trainz now except for the ones, like myself, who are completely retired and simply have more time to work with it.

The forum is what we will make of it. I do get very dismayed at all the "DLS is down/not working/hung/dead/etc" posts and perhaps it would do all of us a favor (or favour) to create a special board where logging the current status of the DLS could be made almost in real time.

Bill

 

[LWVRR]

I've been with Trainz for just under 10 years. In those years I've been planning the "Big Project". I'm now working on the "Big Project" and I'm already thinking about shutting it down. I really wanted to get a group together to complete this project. I figured folks would gain interest with the updates I've been posting. But honestly, nobody shows any interests. Between that, and the fact that there is very few folks creating anymore, those few that do want to charge for it. I believe I'm a couple of days away from shutting down and going private with the project. Yes, this place has changed.

 

[Vern]

Like many others posting on this thread, I've followed Trainz since the beginning - in fact even back to the conceptual stage. Who recalls the little rotateable/viewable models that used to get posted up each week as work towards the release of 1.0 progressed? (I can't recall the name of the software though).

In many respects, the trend on this forum is no different to what has happened on other boards and with other sims. A certain other sim on a certain other forum is dominated by payware developers and their acolytes, thus that any attempt to have a more in depth or pragmatic discussion just gets slapped down and this is encouraged by the mods. The same can be said of our hobby in general. Back in 2001 when we got both MSTS and the first version of Trainz these were the first gaming level train sims in existence. Prior to that we made do with the rather primitive graphics of Railsim (the original German one), Train Driver 3, Mechanik or a complete absence of graphics in Simudrive and the SIAM driving sims. (Or the Ashley Green "Cab View Driver" with its use of shaky video clips).

So everyone embraced the "big two" and in general terms helped each other along. There were many larger than life characters - who remembers Barney who I'm sure cried genuine tears when he graduated from his beloved "Krokodil" avatar on reaching 500 posts! I think back then more people were purchasing Trainz (and MSTS) who were actually enthusiasts or at least interested in the subject matter rather than casual gamers trying something different. So far as Trainz was concerned, there was a close and fairly personal interest in the community by Greg Lane and John Banks and there always seemed to be an announcement of something new, even if none of it ever actually amounted to much.

Fast forward to the present day and straightaway my problem is that the two versions of Trainz that Auran/Neverfail tell me I must now use cannot be used productively on my development laptop. In trying to move forward and be "cutting edge", I and I suspect quite a few others have been left behind. Each re-release has been greeted with a little more cynicism than the last about emperor's new clothes. The raw enthusiasm of the early years has now faded. Those of us who have been producing content in not just TRS but the other sims for nigh on ten years are tired and burned out. I have loads of ideas for routes in TRS (and RW) but most often once the track is laid the motivation evaporates.

As to the forum, the gimmie-pig, semi-articulate and textspeak/twitter style posts do grate a bit and don't lend themselves to reply. Again not just in TRS but the other sims too, I often find myself thinking how can someone that can't even spell or write a coherent sentence expect to master the complexities of building a route or doing 3D modelling. That is probably arrogance on my part but I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking such thoughts.

Looking to the future, there hasn't been much from Auran lately as to what the next step for mainstream Trainz will be. Realistically if there's anything at all it's going to be another upgrade rather than an all new programme. Personally I still favour a streamlined version for 2011/2012, with a line drawn at TS2010 for unblinking support of the older content. If it can't be fixed or upgraded, then ditch it. Give the end users something which rekindles that original spirit and positive thoughts about Trainz. Get mods visible on the forums pro-actively weeding out the illiterate nonsense and pointless one-liners.

 

[sniper297]

"Get mods visible on the forums pro-actively weeding out the illiterate nonsense and pointless one-liners."

Frankly, I would suggest the ignore feature, that's what it's there for. Got one kid whose posting style chronically irritates you, put him on your ignore lists so you don't see his posts. Moderators can't be everywhere every minute, if you see a post that's actually a rule violation hit the alert button, and don't expect the moderators to make judgment calls the same way you would - most websites stupidity is not against the rules, flaming someone for being stupid IS against the rules, that's why they provide the ignore feature in the first place. I see one of these "OMFG HELP!!! HELP!!! MY GAME DONT WROK PLZ ANSWER ASAP!!! posts I add the posters name to my ignore list so I don't have to see any more by him. I'm a moderator at another trainsim forum (THE trainsim forum IMO! ) and from what I've seen that place wouldn't need any moderators if people would just USE the ignore feature.

 

[narrowgauge]

The ignore list suggestion is a good one, but adding a name is not easy to do. Clicking on the user name brings up an 'Add to buddy list' option but not 'Add to ignore list'. Am I missing something here?

Peter

 

[Puffingbilly]

The ignore list suggestion is a good one, but adding a name is not easy to do. Clicking on the user name brings up an 'Add to buddy list' option but not 'Add to ignore list'. Am I missing something here?

Peter

Peter, you beat me to the punch as I was about to ask the same question

Ron

 

[sniper297]

Don't click on his name, click on your own User CP (upper left) and scroll down to the Buddy/Ignore lists, type in "VERN" :hehe: or whatever the guy's username is.