amigacooke
Well-known member
I think you're making a barrel load of assumptions on a poor evidential basis.
Perhaps this link explains best what I'm trying to get at.*
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The Beginning of the End?
- Thread starter LWVRR
- Start date
Perhaps this link explains best what I'm trying to get at.*
No worries Bill, i am pleased you enjoyed the demo. I doubt it will achieve anything though mate.
This lot are just as bigotted as Thatcher and her stormtroopers.
Unemployment highest since 1994, inflation rising, prices shooting up with no corresponding rise in incomes.
I thought the 1980`s were crap the first time around. No need to re-live them again.
IKB.
This sounds like this side of the pond! The same groups are in control here. High taxes and less benefits for the poor and middle-class, and no taxes on the rich.
@Bill - I'm glad you made it to the march. I read about that today. It was quite a turn-out. I wish we would have more of them over here, but Americans are becoming too whimpy to do anything!
Back to topic...
I agree with much of what's been said here. Things have changed a lot, and so has the community, but still this is a fun place to visi, most of the time, and hang out in. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't.
There's another forum I used to go to, but the people got really testy about the time of Chopin's birthday. This is a music-related forum, as if you couldn't tell. I made a point of saying he was a demanding snot, and was shot down by the group because my opinion wasn't the same as their's. I left after being in that forum for over 7 years. To blazes with them, I figure. No loss even though few members have emailed me to find out how I was. I responded personally, but haven't set foot in that forum again.
Take care all.
John
cascaderailroad
New member
I have never seen such a thread ... take off like a bat outa' hades ... 10 pages in 48 hours ... much ado ... about nuttin' at all ... sorta like a Sienfeld season :hehe:
It's like ... a full body heave ...
Does YouTube ever get so chock full of videos ... that it purges itself ?
How many nonsencical syllables, characters, and opinions, can this forum actually hold, before it is full, and explodes (or implodes) ?
Lets go for the record of all times ... Blub,Blub,Blub,Blub,Blub ....
if we spent as much time creating assets, as we do typing ... we'd have a PRR K4 (That is prototypical)
It's like ... a full body heave ...
Does YouTube ever get so chock full of videos ... that it purges itself ?
How many nonsencical syllables, characters, and opinions, can this forum actually hold, before it is full, and explodes (or implodes) ?
Lets go for the record of all times ... Blub,Blub,Blub,Blub,Blub ....
if we spent as much time creating assets, as we do typing ... we'd have a PRR K4 (That is prototypical)
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I noticed that too, and no one has gotten nasty with each other yet either!
It' a nice thread just like we used to have in the old days, or at least it seems that way when viewed through those rose-colored glasses.
John
cascaderailroad
New member
I think it is Flooding (the forum); http://s525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/?action=view¤t=SouthForkDam.mp4
schweitzerdude
Active member
Other user forums have the same problems
I regularly participate in two software related user forums (this one, in which I am a noob, and another one (pertains to personal finance software whose name begins with a Q) in which I am grateful to be rated as a "superuser".
I am here to tell you that the same issues of whining, poor spelling and grammar, and failure of many users to do any searching in the forum for answers to their questions, exist in both.
I regularly participate in two software related user forums (this one, in which I am a noob, and another one (pertains to personal finance software whose name begins with a Q) in which I am grateful to be rated as a "superuser".
I am here to tell you that the same issues of whining, poor spelling and grammar, and failure of many users to do any searching in the forum for answers to their questions, exist in both.
The idea behind all this is to bring out some thoughts and ideas as well as some known issues. There is a problem here. It may not be has bad as I think it is, but I do believe there is less people then there used to be. I'd like to know why. Don't you?
I think it's a cyclic thing. Forums grow, level off and die just like living beings. John Banks, one of the founders of the original Auran did his graduate degree on online communities. I wonder what he'd say about the Trainz forums now.
As the older crowd leave due to various reasons, new people take their place. In some forums, the new crowd doesn't come as fast as the older ones leave.
John
Oh I realize all that, but it's more then just the forums. There is far less content being made then there used to be. Not only that, the little content that is being made never finds it's way on to the DL Station for some reason.
2010 content building has been slow to manifest, but has soared over the past few months, and that content is on the DLS.
These types of threads come about every so often, but really address the obvious changes and cycles a forum goes through over time. These issues that have been pointed out do not portend the end, they are recognized, taken in stride and familiar to all that have been here any length of time.
The (soon) release of 2012 will re-energize these dusty halls, and provide plenty of fodder for interesting threads.
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Retro00064
New member
Perhaps at least part of the reason that less content is being released on the DLS is due to the fact that are are some creators who want their content to be available to legacy users (i. e. users of unsupported versions of Trainz, such as TRS2006 and earlier). Since the Trainz Life-Cycle Policy has prohibited the uploading of content for such unsupported versions of Trainz to the DLS, these creators have turned elsewhere for places to release their content, or even given up entirely on content creation.
The wise way to go, in my opinion, is to follow in the footsteps of one of our users who is still creating content: bendorsey, by uploading a version of an asset for unsupported/legacy versions of Trainz to a third-party Web site (such as the T. P. R. Download Depot), and then uploading a version of that asset for supported versions of Trainz (such as TC3, TS2009, TS2010, etc.) to the DLS for users of those versions to enjoy. Again, this is the wise way, in my opinion, and would be the way that I would go once I upgrade to TS2010 or whatever, so that both categories of users could enjoy my content. 
Regards.
It seems to me that you keep coming back to the subject of content. Personally I don't begrudge any content creator if they bypass the DLS and release it themselves either as payware or freeware.
There's more content right now on the DLS than you'll ever need in your lifetime. You couldn't downloaded all, or use it all. There's really nothing you can't do or build with a built-in content. There's more built-in content than comes the rail works for Example.
They gave you CCP to modify and combine and change assets to your hearts content. Blender is free, if you're worried about the lack of content making it the DLS, there is your solution. Get blender, learn blender, and create all the assets that you think are lacking.
As someone who has provided content to the DLS, I choose not to anymore simply because of the hoops one has to jump through to get it posted, then the obligatory e-mails you're going to get from users when content manager doesn't download all the dependencies.
On the download station your somewhat obliged to answer, if I host it on my site I can say "you're responsible for getting all your dependencies, and I'm providing no support whatsoever" and I can get away with that…
I frankly think a lot of content creators look at it the same way especially when it comes to freeware.
And I see retro has made a very good point as well the older content creators are not putting updates on the DLS because they want legacy users have access… That's a very good point.
I've gotten Blender, I've built with Blender. There are a few buildings and an awsome set of streetlights on the DLStation under the LWVRR name.. There's more to come. Right now I'm in the trackwork building phase on my layout. When that's done it will be time to fire up Blender again and get back into more 3d creations.
Had to spend some time figuring the words to write for this given the subject matter and time I have. (plus reading this topic while interesting keeps kicking in the auto-logout.
)
I do not think Trainz is ending just yet. I cannot say when, if ever, it would. I do think if it did, it would still survive with support through other sites. Plenty of programs I used going back years have survived without the company that created it. Railroad Tycoon is one, Empire Deluxe is another, Mechcommander, Starfleet Command, on and on the list goes.
And given that I have experienced some of the worst things people can do to one another and lived through it in real life, I'm pretty sure Trainz will survive somehow. But I do not think I alone am qualified to say how and I have other stuff outside my Trainz time to deal with that I couldn't devote anything trying to figure out, by myself, exactly how it would go on.
As for the list posted on page two, my thoughts on it:
My list would be this:
1 - A whole bunch of attitudes beyond Gimmie Pig, deserves seperate discussion.
2 - Certain changes that could be made regarding content creation that could make things easier. Not heaps easier but not as hard as now.
3 - Auto-logout on the forums. There are interesting topics like this that come along but trying to keep up gets you logged out just reading one page. Trainz doesn't auto-logout when it connects but the forums keeps throwing people out when they try to keep up with what they find interesting. Isn't there some feature that could be activated to prevent this?
4 - Lack of an off-topic area. Not an easy call but it disappeared after the forum crash. There has been a time since then it would have been a bad idea but from some civil discussions I have seen lately, I think it could be done again though I do not have final say on it.
5 - The DLS Agreement. I remember when I came here and started reskinning, I di not know about it. I do not believe a bunch of others did either including some here longer than me. I remember when it became a big discussion and how many were unhappy with it despite it being around for some time.
Currently anything further falls under #1 on my list and I believe #1 and #2 are discussions with more depth and detail to them.
)I do not think Trainz is ending just yet. I cannot say when, if ever, it would. I do think if it did, it would still survive with support through other sites. Plenty of programs I used going back years have survived without the company that created it. Railroad Tycoon is one, Empire Deluxe is another, Mechcommander, Starfleet Command, on and on the list goes.
And given that I have experienced some of the worst things people can do to one another and lived through it in real life, I'm pretty sure Trainz will survive somehow. But I do not think I alone am qualified to say how and I have other stuff outside my Trainz time to deal with that I couldn't devote anything trying to figure out, by myself, exactly how it would go on.
As for the list posted on page two, my thoughts on it:
Maybe, maybe not. I think the big killer here was dropping gMax support and adding features that gMax cannot do. Not starting an arguement, this is actually a seperate discussion because certain things I discovered lately about modeling that could be done to make creating easier and all that would have to be part of the discussion. Plus some people who create do not do this professionally unlike others, the non-professionals have lives too that are assumed not to exist.
Well, that is the changing standards combined with how even going back to when I joined, some creators did not do certain things right including me. But creation of anything is like that, whether it is Trainz content, music, arts, etc. One thing they all have in common is a complexity combined with changes that makes it impossible to know everything and do it all. Learning this stuff at your own pace I believe is one of the primary things that keeps creators going.
There are other groups, it does not sit right with me to discuss one group without the others.
For all I know, this could just be a phase, partly created by #1, #2 and some other things. Various ways it could be resolved. Could actually make an interesting discussion on its own, I see this as similar to what model railroading has always gone through, they would call it Lack of Interest or Lack of Promotion, there are discussions about that all the time when I see model railroad forums.
It would be easy to say this as a Trainz user but because of my experience in the telecom field, I would now have to know more about the equipment before passing judgement. Since I am in no position to get that knowledge, I just live with it.
This along with some other stuff I believe should be bundled with #3.
If these words along with, "Please," mean that much, then there are certain things about life either being ignored or not known as far as I see. Three words are not that important to me for justifiable reasons thus I cannot bring myself to make them obscenely important to please someone.
Don't have TS2010 so no opinion.
Most people knew this was coming since TS2009. No matter how much someone may dislike it, this is the direction Trainz is going in. You can stay back in another version, not everything in life is constant and despite Auran dropping DLS support for earlier versions, there are still places that do, heck there is still support through these forums that even a pre-TRS2004 topic had discussion and there is a user posting here who only shows a pre-TRS2004 version registered.
Don't see it. I am not everywhere but I do not see a lack of it. It seems less than one time but it is there.
This also would be bundled with #3.
Bundled with #3.
My list would be this:
1 - A whole bunch of attitudes beyond Gimmie Pig, deserves seperate discussion.
2 - Certain changes that could be made regarding content creation that could make things easier. Not heaps easier but not as hard as now.
3 - Auto-logout on the forums. There are interesting topics like this that come along but trying to keep up gets you logged out just reading one page. Trainz doesn't auto-logout when it connects but the forums keeps throwing people out when they try to keep up with what they find interesting. Isn't there some feature that could be activated to prevent this?
4 - Lack of an off-topic area. Not an easy call but it disappeared after the forum crash. There has been a time since then it would have been a bad idea but from some civil discussions I have seen lately, I think it could be done again though I do not have final say on it.
5 - The DLS Agreement. I remember when I came here and started reskinning, I di not know about it. I do not believe a bunch of others did either including some here longer than me. I remember when it became a big discussion and how many were unhappy with it despite it being around for some time.
Currently anything further falls under #1 on my list and I believe #1 and #2 are discussions with more depth and detail to them.
johnwhelan
Well-known member
You can still create in GMAX and the new material stuff etc. is as far as I''m aware possible with other software.
There is a learning curve with Blender in general and its taking some time for all the kinks to get worked out, for example the :cull bug with the N3Vimporter. I personally think its less limiting than GMAX and easier to build more complex items.
I'm not certain that much could be made to make content creation that much easier. The big problem is "training" or people using the appropriate tutorial. Parts are very specialised and I don't honestly think we can expect every one to be able to follow every component of content creation. Scripts are still an area I avoid and I've been writing computer programs for more than forty years now.
Gimme pig actually aren't too bad, you can either ignore them or get them to do the research which is about 30% of model creation anyway.
I think we actually have more content creators now than before and some are doing interesting things. A US signal box turned up in my email in box today by someone who hasn't made scenery objects before but does know textures.
I think the level of detail on models has improved especially on the TS2010 by people who understand normal mapping etc and there are fewer experienced content creators who can create using these newer techniques.
We have lost Paintshed true but there are a wide number of models around these days you can reskin and reskinning isn't that much harder if at all than Paintshed ever was, especially with clone in TS2010.
Cheerio John
CaptEngland
Trainz Engineer
Hi StorkNest
Quote: `Auto-logout on the forums. There are interesting topics like this that come along but trying to keep up gets you logged out just reading one page. Trainz doesn't auto-logout when it connects but the forums keeps throwing people out when they try to keep up with what they find interesting. Isn't there some feature that could be activated to prevent this?`
What is this Auto-logout? I have never had this happen it me on the forums. Do I have special powers? :hehe: (que. someone saying `no, you have special needs!`).
A quick question for maybe P.E.V.
Did I see a post about some kind of new `Paintshed` type program being worked on? I have a useful program called FS Paint2 (link here to see what I am on about: http://www.abacuspub.com/_cart/fsd.htm ) that is used for plane re-skins.
Could someone out there make a program like this? As long as people use it for their own use (no skin trading allowed unless go ahead is given), then I could see this as a very useful tool. In the flight Sim world, no one seems to have any trouble with re-skinning issue's. Maybe trainz people are more picky?
Anyway, M.I.5 told me that they already keep a eye on this forum just in case a `suspect` tries to learn how to drive a train and asks for help on the rail network and layouts of stations.
Regards.
CaptEngland
Quote: `Auto-logout on the forums. There are interesting topics like this that come along but trying to keep up gets you logged out just reading one page. Trainz doesn't auto-logout when it connects but the forums keeps throwing people out when they try to keep up with what they find interesting. Isn't there some feature that could be activated to prevent this?`
What is this Auto-logout? I have never had this happen it me on the forums. Do I have special powers? :hehe: (que. someone saying `no, you have special needs!`).
A quick question for maybe P.E.V.
Did I see a post about some kind of new `Paintshed` type program being worked on? I have a useful program called FS Paint2 (link here to see what I am on about: http://www.abacuspub.com/_cart/fsd.htm ) that is used for plane re-skins.
Could someone out there make a program like this? As long as people use it for their own use (no skin trading allowed unless go ahead is given), then I could see this as a very useful tool. In the flight Sim world, no one seems to have any trouble with re-skinning issue's. Maybe trainz people are more picky?
Anyway, M.I.5 told me that they already keep a eye on this forum just in case a `suspect` tries to learn how to drive a train and asks for help on the rail network and layouts of stations.
Regards.
CaptEngland
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
There's too much invasion of privacy these days. However, I was pleased to see that the question, "Which version of Trainz do you use?", had been dropped from section 17 of the weekend national Census form in the UK!
Back on topic - I also get fed up with being timed out when connected.
It's particularly annoying when composing forum replies. Initially I was losing all my text and any attachments when refreshing.
I now compose everything, plus links, in Word and quickly drop it straight in to the posting box before it has time to get annihilated.
A question. Are all cookies still cleared when you have been booted out, because you haven't logged out normally?
I do seem to get quite a bit of cookie activity crunching my hard drive at times!
Cheers
Casper
I can agree with this statement 100%. And yes, the most stunning models I have are payware. I know that's going to rankle some people, but it's an absolute fact.
I'm proud to own the models I have, close-up, far away, in between it doesn't matter they are far and away the best looking virtual Trainz I've ever had on a computer.
Now is that strictly the model, or does 2010 have anything to do with it? I think a little of both is probably the correct answer. I've noticed a lot of things and older content look better to a certain extent in 2010. Not all older content mind you, but some.
I remember paint shed but even back then I don't think I used it, I've always been a Photoshop person.(and no I'm not rich, most of my experience over the years with Photoshop was company related, and then yes after I retired I bought a copy) but it's easy to re-skin anything in Photoshop.
The two things I'm really getting into this time around with 2010 would be TransDem and taking already created assets and using CCP to modify and/or combine assets I use a lot of into single drop items to cut down on placement clicking in surveyor.
Exploring CCP is actually quite fun, there's a lot there
steamboateng
New member
Well, some thing has been different lately. I've been able to log on and download from the DLS almost every day for a week. I don't have an FCT!.
I thought it was Trainzers just being considerate and letting me catch-up on TS2010 content. Maybe not!
I thought it was Trainzers just being considerate and letting me catch-up on TS2010 content. Maybe not!
johnwhelan
Well-known member
The interesting part of the freeware side is how things can be reused. I have a number of photo textures I've used that are only licensed for freeware. If you want to use them for payware you pay. I've worked with a lot of fellow creators begging sources from them some times providing sources at others and we've helped each other out on techniques. There is a place for payware but the thing that makes Trainz unique is the community and there is some very good content that has come from the community.
Cheerio John