The Beginning of the End?

[UP5521]

well,when I first joined the forum,I have caused some trouble,not just for the creators but other members as well which at that time was a respect issue and I regret that and as for the 'gimmepig',well I admit that I was one,I'm still guilty over that and I have learned that patience has its own reward,as for the beginning of the end of this great simulator,no I don't foresee that happening,trainz has came a long way,sure it can be frustrating at times when a problem develops, whether it is another member is having trouble getting the game started,locomotive textures and etc., but as always,another member will probably be there to solve it and that is why I am thankful for it!

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

Hi Rob
No the end is not nigh, I too have had a crashing problem with Firefox since I installed the latest version. I have now given up on it and have started using Google Chrome.

It is a shame really as I have been using Firefox for a couple of years now and had got to know it well.

Feels like losing an old friend.

Bill

Version 4 Bill ???

I installed it on thursday last and it has been nothing but trouble.

I have also used Firefox from almost it's first release.

Back to Opera for me, i think.

In regards the "March For Change", the media are only interested in sensationalised headlines and anything that makes the Tories look good.

IKB.

 

[leeferr]

I guess that I'll throw in my 2 cents worth to this debate.

I don't see the forums as really being any worse or better than they used to be. We all like to use our 'rose colored' glasses and see the 'good ole days' as something angelic with no problems. Our minds always tend to remember the good times more readily than the bad. The forums has simply evolved much as Trainz is evolving.

I have certainly had my moments here on the forums and have upset some and pleased some, but that's part of my evolvement too.

There are many reasons that creators are moving to payware or disappearing from the DLS and I could list them here, but it won't solve anything. It's all been argued way too much and wouldn't resolve anything by opening that old sore. I will say that N3V has made it very difficult with the wiki to find the creation information that I'm looking for and I think that this is one of the reasons that we get so many noobie creators asking seemingly innocent questions. They can't find the answers any better than I can and when they do the proper thing and actually search for the information, it often isn't there.

Additionally, someone posted about rivet counters possibly running off creators. This could be true to a point. Some people just can't take critisism, even if it's constructive critisism. That's just the way that it is. Rivet counters can go a little too far sometimes though and they need to learn to temper their enthusiasm for trains and accuracy with a little understanding for the creator and the process. My suggestion would be not to get into content creation unless you have a lot of patience and are open to a little construction critisism. Creation can be a very rewarding experience and is worth the effort. There are lots of members here willing to help.

Finally, I have to admit that at times, I have been very critical of N3V myself and at other times, I have been very supportive. It's just a matter of what they're doing with my beloved Trainz at the moment. Even with the difficult moments and my occasional disagreements with their policies, overall, I have to say a big "Thank You" to Auran/N3V for creating Trainz, developing it, and keeping this forum alive. They are very tolerent of dissenting opinions which isn't necessarily the case in most forums. They should be applauded for their efforts and I wish them great success because I'd like to see Trainz and these forums around for a long time to come.

Maybe that was more than 2 cents worth. Sorry

Mike

 

[aardvark1]

~~~~snip~~~~

Even with the difficult moments and my occasional disagreements with their policies, overall, I have to say a big "Thank You" to Auran/N3V for creating Trainz, developing it, and keeping this forum alive. They are very tolerant of dissenting opinions which isn't necessarily the case in most forums. They should be applauded for their efforts and I wish them great success because I'd like to see Trainz and these forums around for a long time to come.

Mike

Mike, I am in total agreement with what you said.

I know that I have been guilty of posting comments that have met with criticism.

I do apologize for those comments.

And thanks to N3V for being tollerant with all the negative comments about their products and busines decisions.

Also, thank you to all the content creators who created many superb assets for us to use and enjoy.

We must remember that Trainz is a game, an excellent game for many to enjoy going forward.

Long live the Trainz Forums.

Respectfully,
Ron

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody

DLR,

I still do the same thing as well. It's part of the communication process, and in particular within a public environment. If we were to speak the way many of the posters do here in the real world, we would be thrown out of work, and painted as total idiots, or worse, rude and crude characters. We have to be polite, and the written word is much more difficult to use than just speaking in front of people. There is no real inflection in writing, and the intention can be missing if the communication skills aren't there. This is where the thinking and proofing before the "Submit Reply" button is pressed comes in.

Every day, as I said before for me, I have to be polite and nice no matter who the person is, and no matter how many times I'm asked the same thing. I just do it, and go on. Some people feel bad asking me, others are extremely grateful, and then others take what I have to offer for granted, and expect what I have to give is just that; it's seems to parallel the forums here.

John

As usual John you hit the nail right on the head with your posting. Previous generations where always taught communication skills as a first priority both written and personal in their early school years.

However, today that seems to have taken a very much lower status in the learning curriculum with subjects that need less patience and care seemingly taking it's place.

Having said that, it is somewhat unsurprising in the era of "texting" when messages have to be sent quickly without the use of a QWERTY keyboard. The foregoing can be somewhat annoying to those of us on the forum who see that " text speak" as unnecessary when all computers are equipped with standard keyboards or you can use speech to text software as I am now.

But, let's not be too hard on the younger generation. It's not their fault if educational chiefs decide that less priority should be given to good communication skills. Also millions of text messages are sent by the younger generation to their friends each day and that therefore leads to a general acceptance of " text speak" in all communication.

On a different matter, I believe it was me that advised I would not upload a route I have spent over 18 months in the creation of to the DLS. This was because only a few weeks ago a very well respected content creator uploaded a steam locomotive and almost immediately the " rivet counters" where severely criticizing him for the boiler not being mounted correctly and the smoke stack not in the correct place.

Myself along with others went after these members on the forum in quite a big way. After that I vowed I would never uploaded anything while that sort of criticism was prevalent in these threads. Content which is created and uploaded freely is a gift to the members of this community. If anyone has criticism of that content they are always free to make any changes they wish themselves.

There is no need by any member to try to humiliate someone who has given freely of his time and effort for the benefit of others. However, that is unfortunately too often the case on these forums when new content is uploaded.

Bill

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

In the last couple on months this place as really changed. There seems to be lots of people complaining about anything and everything. People fighting, people leaving, long time creators have given up creating and disappearing. I'm seeing less and less people coming to these forums. One late night I found that there was like only 15 active members here...that was unheard of at one time. Even at peak times there seems to be far less people here then there use to be. What happened? Where did all the creators go? Is this the beginning of the end for Trainz?

You joined in august 2010, that is less than a year ago. So your judgement on how the forums "used to be" is a bit limited.

I have been a member here since june 2001, constantly. I would say that the ratio of fools, know it all's and good people. Has remained pretty constant over that whole period.

As for those griping about "txt speak", the english language is constantly evolving. No-one here would have a clue what was being said by someone speaking "english" in the 14th century.

IKB.

 

[wholbr]

Hi IKB And Everybody.

As for those griping about "txt speak", the english language is constantly evolving. No-one here would have a clue what was being said by someone speaking "english" in the 14th century.

IKB.

IKB your posting states the situation exactly as it is. Everything evolves which can be annoying to earlier generations, but each new generation has its own ideas and will try to push things forward as they see it. It is the way things are and have been since mankind first appeared in this world and will continue until mankind disappears from the world.

Apologies IKB I forgot to reply to your query regarding Firefox but it is version 4 that keeps crashing. As for the "March for the alternative" it was a great day and I am really glad I went. Have been "completely nact" all day today after spending over nine hours on my feet from the time we got out of the car until the time I got back in, but it was well worth it and I would not have missed it for the world.

Bill

 

[LWVRR]

You joined in august 2010, that is less than a year ago. So your judgement on how the forums "used to be" is a bit limited.

Ah, check usernames MrScott2006 and Lurganbr2005. These are also me which goes back to 2002. My original name was Ridgerunner but I changed it to Lurganbr2005.

 

[leeferr]

Ah, check usernames MrScott2006 and Lurganbr2005. These are also me which goes back to 2002. My original name was Ridgerunner but I changed it to Lurganbr2005.

Not trying to enter into this debate, but how exactly was he supposed to know that? I'm not sure why some members want to have several different usernames. How are we supposed to know who we're talking to? Do you work for one of those agencies that end with an ..A?

Mike

 

[LWVRR]

Not trying to enter into this debate, but how exactly was he supposed to know that? I'm not sure why some members want to have several different usernames. How are we supposed to know who we're talking to? Do you work for one of those agencies that end with an ..A?

Mike

He wasn't supposed to know that. That's why I told him. No biggy. I change my name because I got bored with the old names. I can say that if I get 2012 the name will stay LWVRR.

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

He wasn't supposed to know that. That's why I told him. No biggy. I change my name because I got bored with the old names. I can say that if I get 2012 the name will stay LWVRR.

So why only one version of Trainz and not untill 2009 ?

IKB.

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

No worries Bill, i am pleased you enjoyed the demo. I doubt it will achieve anything though mate.

This lot are just as bigotted as Thatcher and her stormtroopers.

Unemployment highest since 1994, inflation rising, prices shooting up with no corresponding rise in incomes.

I thought the 1980`s were crap the first time around. No need to re-live them again.

IKB.

 

[LWVRR]

So why only one version of Trainz and not untill 2009 ?

IKB.

I was a TRS2006 hold out. Then Auran cut off DLS support for TRS2006. I couldn't get TS2010 because my computer specs couldn't handle it so I bought TS2009. However, Just after buying TS2009 my computer died and I had to get a new computer. So now I have a computer that can run TS2010 but there is no point in getting it because of TS2012 is in the works.

Any other questions?

 

[amigacooke]

As for those griping about "txt speak", the english language is constantly evolving. No-one here would have a clue what was being said by someone speaking "english" in the 14th century.

You're right, but that's why I wouldn't use 14th century 'english' or "txt speak" if I am trying to make myself clear to the maximum number of people.

 

[pware]

So now I have a computer that can run TS2010 but there is no point in getting it because of TS2012 is in the works.

That's the perennial question - with cars, TVs, Apples "cult products" - do I buy now or wait for next years model? The problem with that philosophy is that you will never buy anything because there is always a newer and better model "just around the corner". I hear that Trainz 2010 is selling for as little as $10 a copy in some places (don't know where though).

 

[mezzoprezzo]

It is not insignificant, since the withdrawal of TRS2004/06 and earlier DLS uploading, that there has been a marked reduction in enthusiasm and input on the part of many current and ex contributors. It’s now seems more about mending what is “broken”, rather than pushing the boundaries of what is achievable in Trainz and raising the bar, and simply just enjoying it for what it is.

I rarely see much sharing of new ideas and Surveyor techniques these days, yet there is so much untapped potential in Trainz, not just within the excellent software, but also with the boundless skill, knowledge and creative talent in the community. The bar can be raised weekly, probably daily, with the right amount of enthusiasm and skills sharing.

I still spend a good deal of time here, although a little less than previously.

Here are two reasons why I now spend a little more time elsewhere:

1. I’ve spent two years and thousands of hours building routes in Surveyor which can no longer be uploaded to the DLS because I use an old version and the Life Cycle Policy now prevents it. I would have loved to have got at least one in before the door was closed. There simply wasn’t time between the announcement and enforcement. That is more than annoying. I do now check out other Forums and sites to perhaps find one which might be suitable and what the advantages/pitfall might be.
   
   
2. I confess to also spending more time exploring and downloading new assets from third party sites where many of the “lost” creators are now dispersing their fine work. The DLS + FCT may be good value, but for legacy users that value is lessened because no new assets can be uploaded/downloaded for TRS2006 or older, and even browsing access is now longer available if you don’t have an FCT!

I still like to contribute to the Forum and help out other Trainzer if I know the answer to an openly posted question, or if politely asked directly with a specific question.

In general, I find the Forum is still a very pleasant place to be and a very important part of the hobby.

I’d like to see more posts discussing creative and fresh ideas on route building techniques though, rather than the currently predominant (but I guess, necessary) software technical side. The latter tends to be specific to versions and for me, very hard to comprehend, whereas creativity spans all versions and is far more enjoyable. I do try to offer something creative as often as possible, but there does seem to be less of it generally.

I also think that approach helps to sell more versions of Trainz. How many versions you may have bought is only part of the equation.

What’s important is where we are now. Forget which version people have, or how long they’ve been members. It’s their positive contribution which matters.

Nicely presented, creative and helpful postings will attract far more new customers, regardless of version, than those which make it look technically difficult. The family arguments just make things worse.

I believe Auran understood that. N3V possibly do. Not every member gets it though.

Cheers
Casper

 

[mrscsi]

Why is everybody so worried?

The forum will either be here tomorrow or it won't…

Content creators will either be here tomorrow or they won't…

Auran/N3V will continue development on Trainz or they won't…

All of which are outside the purview have any user who posted in this thread. Now I don't want to sound negative, but to be completely truthful ever since the bankruptcy and merger I keep getting pleasantly surprised with a new version every year or so. I don't expect it, but I'm pleasantly surprised when it happens.

During the bankruptcy and merger I made up my mind that I would create for myself, run the simulation until I lost interest in doing so. I found that I could do that with or without Auran/N3V, the IRC chat, the DLS, or even this forum and any of its members.

So yes it's nice to have, but if it all went away tomorrow, I wouldn't commit suicide. Life would continue for me as I know it, and I would be able to do what I do with Trainz as long as I have electricity and a computer.

I think what I'm trying to say is yes, it's nice to have corporate support, it's nice to have content creators (and we should thank them each and everyday) it's nice to have payware creators (and yes we should thank them each and every) it's nice to have this forum, it's nice to have other members communicate via this forum, but it shouldn't be something that everybody EXPECTS…

Members who like to use the simulation should also start thinking about what they can do not only for the community, but for themselves. We should really stop worrying about whether all this going to be here tomorrow and start learning how to deal with it if it isn't…

 

[LWVRR]

Why is everybody so worried?

The forum will either be here tomorrow or it won't…

Content creators will either be here tomorrow or they won't…

Auran/N3V will continue development on Trainz or they won't…

All of which are outside the purview have any user who posted in this thread. Now I don't want to sound negative, but to be completely truthful ever since the bankruptcy and merger I keep getting pleasantly surprised with a new version every year or so. I don't expect it, but I'm pleasantly surprised when it happens.

During the bankruptcy and merger I made up my mind that I would create for myself, run the simulation until I lost interest in doing so. I found that I could do that with or without Auran/N3V, the IRC chat, the DLS, or even this forum and any of its members.

So yes it's nice to have, but if it all went away tomorrow, I wouldn't commit suicide. Life would continue for me as I know it, and I would be able to do what I do with Trainz as long as I have electricity and a computer.

I think what I'm trying to say is yes, it's nice to have corporate support, it's nice to have content creators (and we should thank them each and everyday) it's nice to have payware creators (and yes we should thank them each and every) it's nice to have this forum, it's nice to have other members communicate via this forum, but it shouldn't be something that everybody EXPECTS…

Members who like to use the simulation should also start thinking about what they can do not only for the community, but for themselves. We should really stop worrying about whether all this going to be here tomorrow and start learning how to deal with it if it isn't…

Interesting post.
The earth may be here tomorrow or it may not.
But if we can stop it from going away...would we? I think so.

 

[mrscsi]

Interesting post.
The earth may be here tomorrow or it may not.
But if we can stop it from going away...would we? I think so.

But you can't stop it, that's the entire point I was trying to make. Experience here has taught me one thing, since the merger the responsiveness to the users by Auran/N3V has diminished.

Now I am in no way faulting Auran/N3V for any of that diminishing responsiveness, I guess I could fault Auran originally for getting too close to its user base and thus allowing them to think that they actually had a stake in the products development. That could very easily be why instead of Auran it's now Auran/N3V.

I'm an old man but I'm one who believes in what I was taught as a young man, self-reliance. I know it may sound quaint and rather draconian to some of the younger socially conscious "we are the world" types, but it is something that has served me rather well all these years.

There's nothing that the users of this forum can do that is going to effect how Auran/N3V decides to do business, whether content creators create content or not, or whether the sun will come up in the morning, that's just an absolute fact.

My mother was an old Tennessee hillbilly, (raised during the depression and for all intents and purposes had a very hard upbringing compared to my upbringing) One thing that she told me has always stayed with me "if you need a hand, first look at the end of your own arm."

A simple statement yes, but one that would serve everybody in the world and the world would truly be a better place if it was the world motto. But alas that's not the case. I know it, I'm okay with it. Which is why I actually support many of the payware creators. It isn't because I'm rich (that certainly isn't the case) it's because I firmly believe if it's something I want, yet I do not want to create it for myself for whatever reason, I shouldn't expect somebody to create it for me, for free…

Now the operative word in that statement would be "expect." Am I entirely grateful when I find an asset created for free on the DLS that fits my needs? Absolutely…

I don't however EXPECT there to be free assets and people creating those assets for me to use. I've bought more software than I can ever remember (if I had to list it all during the course of my lifetime) when I buy a piece of software I EXPECT that it will install, load and run, and do what they say it will do. That's all my expectations are.

Having witnessed the various debates (if you want to call them that here in the forum especially over the last couple of months) I guess people's expectations of what they're going to get for life from a particular piece of software to me anyway seems a bit warped.

There are those on this forum who fully expect free assets until the world stops spinning, Hades freezes over, or Auran/N3V completely shuts down this operation.

I know there are people who think that way, because I've read their statements that they have written in this very forum. There have been people threatening lawsuits. I really find that mindset hard to comprehend.

My opinion (and it is my opinion) is that Trainz users really need to look at things rationally, in many cases they need to grow up, and start doing more for themselves instead of having expectations that everything is always going to be here for them.

Being self-reliant is not a bad thing, in today's world it might even be considered a sought after skill set:hehe:

 

[belkenn]

Hi all,:wave:
I fully agree with mrscsi. What would happen if Auran/N3V stopped the DLS and their support? Well as far as the support goes; the answer would be “Not a lot”, it has not existed for a very long time; now as for DLS going, I for one do not think it would be the end of the world. I will be over the next few weeks, do what a lot of creators seem to be doing, and I will put everything that I ever sent to the DLS on my website for free download. If you look around as I have done lately you find some beautiful stuff to download from creators own websites. I have just downloaded some of pofig, s trees and stuff and they are better than you will find from Auran/N3V.

The other point is if you are worried about not being able to get a particular asset; then why not have a go at building them for yourself?
Blender and G-Max or such; Do I admit have a very steep learning curve, but it is so worth the effort when you see your first efforts actually working in Trainz.

I am thinking of hoisting other Trainz creator’s free assets on my web site. This will be a totally free service and will have full credits to the relevant creator.
If you are interested then PM me or go to my site and go to the Home/contact me page (It drops down from the home button)


Belkenn

http://belkenn.com/