eventually, you'll have to work a function over your list, and that's like building a route. don't hold back, there's widgets to be hauled.
The Beginning of the End?
- Thread starter LWVRR
- Start date
Retro. This is part of the new generation. They don't like to be told about the problems. They only want compliments. I saw this when I was teaching piano. Yes, they were there to learn, and there is the good and then there are areas to improve. You take what's good, and take what's bad and try to make things better the next time around.
This is true with every artistic venture whether it's music or content. If someone points out to me some error in my piano performance, I'll sure work on fixing it later. Case in point: I was visiting the wonderful Frederick Collection - www.frederickcollection.org One of the owners came over to me and asked if I could play softer on one of the pianos. I was playing Mozart on a 1795 fortepiano, and it was quite loud with little dynamic change. I was actually having problems controlling the dynamics on the very, very light piano action. I didn't take offence to this. In fact I found the critique useful. The person didn't have to say anything to me, and could of just smiled at me attempt, but I found the lesson on playing the very old piano useful. The technique for playing on these pianos is quite different from a modern piano. I was amazed at what can be done with subtle finger and hand position changes!
The same with content creating. If the person takes the time to get the content up another notch, then they've learned from their errors. We know that nothing is perfect in this imperfect world we live in, but to give up and sulk because someone points out something that can be fixed, that's being childish. The creator will never learn a thing about making something better.
John
Retro00064
New member
Great information, John. Thanks. However, does the "new generation" include some retirees, including those in their 60s? for I have gotten that kind of anti-rivet-counting response from such people. 
Regards.
Regards.
Leigha_gunzel
New member
But a truth is only a truth if you believe in it, over wise its just another persons point of view.Well there is nothing in the COC that says I can not tell the truth...
That would just be your interpretation of it...
But a rule is clear and defined with no ambiguity.
As I told Retro, find the RULE that dictates that Auran/N3V has any power to define what I or anyone else writes or says on any other site, especially a site which I maintain and pay the bill for...
Just because I was rather critical of Retro's buddy, he decided that there was a clear and defined RULE against it...
Still haven't seen it written anywhere however...:hehe:
And that article has gotten 60 hits and not one complaint (save for Retro) so one could assume 59 believe it to be truth and 1 doesn't...
Last edited:
Leigha_gunzel
New member
Oh could you share the link to this please --- it seems I am only getting one side of this story.
Last edited:
sent it to you in a pm
amigacooke
Well-known member
I agree with your points Peter. The point of the forum is to communicate. If a poster makes it difficult for me with creative spelling and grammar I'll move on.
Last edited:
These forums are no worse than any and better than most. They really haven't changed much since the very beginning. There is a cycle that becomes evident over time that began with the first release. When a new release is announced there is intense speculation and suggestions for features, and a multitude of questions. After the release there is criticism and praise and new questions regarding the use of the new program. Everything in between the two previously noted situations falls into many diverse categories of posts including, but not limited to, complaints, praise, questions, comments, conversation and answers.
Those who post here display their own knowledge or lack of, and often either learn to assimilate, or never do and sometimes discontinue posting here entirely.
Those who post here display their own knowledge or lack of, and often either learn to assimilate, or never do and sometimes discontinue posting here entirely.
I think you've hit the nail on the head - there is a definite cycle at work.
Add to your list a lot of new users asking the same questions after every release, some creators leave, others replace them, and many of the old hand complain about how it was better in the old days.
I seem to remember some complaints about TRS04 when I first came on here - yes there were UTC holdouts too...
. Not as many, but perhaps that's because TRS04 was THE big leap forwards for many people.Paul
To quote Winston Churchill (who was at the time discussing a totally different matter in November 1942) ...
[put on Churchillian voice] "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
I think it indicates that Trainz has reached a level of maturity, perhaps even a critical mass.
The level (and quality) of criticisms that have appeared in these forums are mostly from the "new blood" some who have "issues" that other posters have elaborated on. This, to me, indicates that Trainz is no longer just a simulator for the "computer nerds". Yes there have been a few "oldies/nerds" who did not like Auran/N3V dropping their support for Trainz UTC, 2004, 2006 - but do these people still expect Microsoft (who have many more $$$$ and personnel) to continue to support MS-DOS, Windows 286 (who remembers that version - I actually owned a copy of it), Windows 3.1, Word 2, QBASIC, etc.
Likewise arguments over whether you should have to have an FCT to use the DLS have usually missed the point - bandwidth, storage, updates cost money and you will always get what you pay for, whether from Auran/N3V, Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc. A free service will only supply you with the basics. Is iTunes free (I don't know because I don't use it)? Why does Google offer both free and commercial versions of Sketchup and Google Earth?
These arguments indicate to me that there is a healthy (if sometimes annoying
) discourse of ideas going on in these forums - again a sign of maturity (even if some of the individual postings, IMHO, show the opposite).So some content creators have moved on to other things, other content creators have taken their place. This is a process of evolution.
Long Live Trainz
Peter Ware
To quote Winston Churchill (who was at the time discussing a totally different matter in November 1942) ...
[put on Churchillian voice] "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
I think it indicates that Trainz has reached a level of maturity, perhaps even a critical mass.
The level (and quality) of criticisms that have appeared in these forums are mostly from the "new blood" some who have "issues" that other posters have elaborated on. This, to me, indicates that Trainz is no longer just a simulator for the "computer nerds". Yes there have been a few "oldies/nerds" who did not like Auran/N3V dropping their support for Trainz UTC, 2004, 2006 - but do these people still expect Microsoft (who have many more $$$$ and personnel) to continue to support MS-DOS, Windows 286 (who remembers that version - I actually owned a copy of it), Windows 3.1, Word 2, QBASIC, etc.
Likewise arguments over whether you should have to have an FCT to use the DLS have usually missed the point - bandwidth, storage, updates cost money and you will always get what you pay for, whether from Auran/N3V, Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc. A free service will only supply you with the basics. Is iTunes free (I don't know because I don't use it)? Why does Google offer both free and commercial versions of Sketchup and Google Earth?
These arguments indicate to me that there is a healthy (if sometimes annoying
So some content creators have moved on to other things, other content creators have taken their place. This is a process of evolution.
Long Live Trainz
Peter Ware
I have a copy of windows 286 still shrink-wrapped
Hi Everybody.
It seems that young people in particular are being singled out for criticism in this thread as “gimmie pigs” and not wishing to learn from by their own Volition all the intricacies of this Trainz hobby. The foregoing could be the case but I feel perhaps we only see one element of the younger users of Trainz on the forum
Yesterday I went on the March for the Alternative in London along with what I would estimate to be close to half 1 million others. Many of the older generation on the March were very much surprised by how many young people had turned up to March in support of a different future to the one that faces many of them and other generations at present. With over one in five people under the age of 25 unemployed in Britain it was great to see so many of them prepared to get up off their butts and challenge current thinking with regard to their futures.
However, on returning home what do we see dominating the news channels, nothing else but coverage of the small minority of young people who wished to have nothing to do with the main march but only went to London to cause nothing but trouble and mayhem throughout the centre of the capital.
Perhaps it is very similar on these forums. There must be many young Trainzers who without coming on these forums sit quietly with their computers and work out for themselves the problems they encounter in learning Trainz. Having said that, as we all know there is also the ones that come on to the forum and seem to expect everything to be placed on a plate for them without having to do any learning themselves.
There is good and bad in all generations and each generation looks to bring about changes to standards set by other generations for better or for worse. So, let's not judge all young Trainz users by a minority who post on these forums.
Bill
It seems that young people in particular are being singled out for criticism in this thread as “gimmie pigs” and not wishing to learn from by their own Volition all the intricacies of this Trainz hobby. The foregoing could be the case but I feel perhaps we only see one element of the younger users of Trainz on the forum
Yesterday I went on the March for the Alternative in London along with what I would estimate to be close to half 1 million others. Many of the older generation on the March were very much surprised by how many young people had turned up to March in support of a different future to the one that faces many of them and other generations at present. With over one in five people under the age of 25 unemployed in Britain it was great to see so many of them prepared to get up off their butts and challenge current thinking with regard to their futures.
However, on returning home what do we see dominating the news channels, nothing else but coverage of the small minority of young people who wished to have nothing to do with the main march but only went to London to cause nothing but trouble and mayhem throughout the centre of the capital.
Perhaps it is very similar on these forums. There must be many young Trainzers who without coming on these forums sit quietly with their computers and work out for themselves the problems they encounter in learning Trainz. Having said that, as we all know there is also the ones that come on to the forum and seem to expect everything to be placed on a plate for them without having to do any learning themselves.
There is good and bad in all generations and each generation looks to bring about changes to standards set by other generations for better or for worse. So, let's not judge all young Trainz users by a minority who post on these forums.
Bill
Hmmm, very strange? Clicking on this link caused my browser ( Firefox 3.6.16 ) to crash to the desktop!!!
Could 'The End' be nigh?
Rob.
Hi Rob
No the end is not nigh, I too have had a crashing problem with Firefox since I installed the latest version. I have now given up on it and have started using Google Chrome.
It is a shame really as I have been using Firefox for a couple of years now and had got to know it well.
Feels like losing an old friend.
Bill
Nothing wrong with old threads as that is where much of the information is or was. I kept my maritime threads running for months and I think years. But depends what you want from the forum whether just chat or relevant information to the topic. My topics were maritime trainz and trainz canals. Many content creators probably no longer create because of the ever changing methods required. I think perhaps everybody should try content creation to be able to understand what it involves if they wish to post about content or comment about "free" content. Former Trainz content creator for maritime related content. B
Last edited:
The Forum , in my opinion , is simply a changing of the attitudes of the members
involved in Trainz today .
When I first came to the Forum years ago , I thought over each and every word
prior to posting . I did not want to offend the many great and knowledgeable
members . I wanted to appear intelligent and somewhat informed ? I listened to
what they had to say and tried to be courteous and thankful .
Many of the threads/posts lately do not seem to follow these old self imposed
rules .
The Forum is simply becoming a different group of members , it is likely an age
thing , perhaps not ?
As I have stated before , I hate the 1-2 months after Santa Clause has delivered
the first copy of Trainz to soon-to-be Forum members !
Simply my Thoughts --- ,DLR
involved in Trainz today .
When I first came to the Forum years ago , I thought over each and every word
prior to posting . I did not want to offend the many great and knowledgeable
members . I wanted to appear intelligent and somewhat informed ? I listened to
what they had to say and tried to be courteous and thankful .
Many of the threads/posts lately do not seem to follow these old self imposed
rules .
The Forum is simply becoming a different group of members , it is likely an age
thing , perhaps not ?
As I have stated before , I hate the 1-2 months after Santa Clause has delivered
the first copy of Trainz to soon-to-be Forum members !
Simply my Thoughts --- ,DLR
Last edited:
I have a copy of windows 286 still shrink-wrapped
So do I. I'm also one of those geeks that came from CP/M Plus. I still wish I had my V-1050 and WordStar. Life was so much easier then.
The only thing, there were no real games for the computer back then unless you had a Commodore or Atari 400! I had both in 1982 along with my V-1050.
John
zatovisualworks
Veteran but blossoming
Hi guys, all of you.
I confess that I was expecting this kind of thread, maybe needed or desired.
Someone typed this was a serious thread and no comical performance was desired... And that's the beginning of the end of my 'serious' thoughts (IMHO's) on this topic...
1. Lately these forums are lacking merriness, lightness and wishes of having a good smile or laughter. Talking about trains, Trainz, UFO's or lettuce needn't be a dull boring gloomy activity. Trainzy things can be explained, communicated or participated in a merry and kind way. No need to be a joker but also no need to be a
communicator. Seriousness and scholar communication isn't based on dullness, guys. Teaching seriously in my classes doesn't mean to be a boring bloke at all.
I do know that sense of humour is a very subjective matter -your sense could coincide with mine or maybe not- but there are common contact points for this subjectivity.
2. These forums are lacking tolerance and respect to opinions from others. 'Ridiculous' and 'rubbish' are used too often on these forums to reject humble well-intended comments from others. The principles of "Silence is golden" and "Public Forums need some hypocritical human behaviour" when tempted to massacre somebody are often forgotten. :hehe: I myself would sometimes like to
some posters but... I have my own load of hypocrisy on.
3. We old-timers over here observe how some (and I say some with no names) newcomers or almost newcomers (since a year or two on the forums is just nothing compared to almost a ten-year life over here
) think they know everything about Trainz despising the ones who can offer their experience after long hours dissecting this amusement (are you forgetting this is just but that? ) and that Trainz without the legacy of the past is lame and handicapped. Likewise we love and respect newcomers because they are the future, maybe some 'too-clever' only-T9/10 owners should respect and love the ones who have built up the past and the present of this amusement.
4. Talking about patience and tolerance, helping freshpeople to Trainz seems to be a heavy burden for an increasing number of trainzers. Some days ago I felt very happy to take care of the 'deliverance' of a couple of newborn trainzers over here. It was a pleasant refreshing job for me. I felt younger -well, every day I feel that at my job with my twenty-year-old students.
I know these newcomers to Trainz should have read more before asking for S.O.S.
but after regretting that fact just for second, a little help from friends (like Ringo Starr sang...) for not losing your hair costs nothing but some typing from your experienced trainzy side.
and 5. I wouldn't want to finish my beginning of the end of my joining in on this thread without mentioning the state of moderating practice and the showing off of apocryphal mods from time to time.
I do like the state of moderating practice now. Not too pushing and far-going and just intervening when really needed -and we all must be thankful to the owners of this home for that, even allowing respectful criticism to their products or policies; I myself have been critical as a loyal customer-. And I'm typing this from my side of admin at forums for more than ten years now.
What is sometimes a bit -just a little bit because I take it on one of my lightest sides- annoying and disturbing the pleasant going-on of these forums is the presence of uninvited apocryphal mods trying to give lessons of whoknowswhat... There is still this flamboyant
icon to report whateveroddthingsyouwanttoreport. The only thing that going public with apocryphal moderating yields is more
fighting, anger and disruption.
Have a nice Sunday, guys, old- and new-timers.
The bolding text old-timer side of Alberte :wave:
I confess that I was expecting this kind of thread, maybe needed or desired.
Someone typed this was a serious thread and no comical performance was desired... And that's the beginning of the end of my 'serious' thoughts (IMHO's) on this topic...
1. Lately these forums are lacking merriness, lightness and wishes of having a good smile or laughter. Talking about trains, Trainz, UFO's or lettuce needn't be a dull boring gloomy activity. Trainzy things can be explained, communicated or participated in a merry and kind way. No need to be a joker but also no need to be a
I do know that sense of humour is a very subjective matter -your sense could coincide with mine or maybe not- but there are common contact points for this subjectivity.
2. These forums are lacking tolerance and respect to opinions from others. 'Ridiculous' and 'rubbish' are used too often on these forums to reject humble well-intended comments from others. The principles of "Silence is golden" and "Public Forums need some hypocritical human behaviour" when tempted to massacre somebody are often forgotten. :hehe: I myself would sometimes like to
3. We old-timers over here observe how some (and I say some with no names) newcomers or almost newcomers (since a year or two on the forums is just nothing compared to almost a ten-year life over here
) think they know everything about Trainz despising the ones who can offer their experience after long hours dissecting this amusement (are you forgetting this is just but that? ) and that Trainz without the legacy of the past is lame and handicapped. Likewise we love and respect newcomers because they are the future, maybe some 'too-clever' only-T9/10 owners should respect and love the ones who have built up the past and the present of this amusement.4. Talking about patience and tolerance, helping freshpeople to Trainz seems to be a heavy burden for an increasing number of trainzers. Some days ago I felt very happy to take care of the 'deliverance' of a couple of newborn trainzers over here. It was a pleasant refreshing job for me. I felt younger -well, every day I feel that at my job with my twenty-year-old students
.I know these newcomers to Trainz should have read more before asking for S.O.S.
and 5. I wouldn't want to finish my beginning of the end of my joining in on this thread without mentioning the state of moderating practice and the showing off of apocryphal mods from time to time.
I do like the state of moderating practice now. Not too pushing and far-going and just intervening when really needed -and we all must be thankful to the owners of this home for that, even allowing respectful criticism to their products or policies; I myself have been critical as a loyal customer-. And I'm typing this from my side of admin at forums for more than ten years now.
What is sometimes a bit -just a little bit because I take it on one of my lightest sides- annoying and disturbing the pleasant going-on of these forums is the presence of uninvited apocryphal mods trying to give lessons of whoknowswhat... There is still this flamboyant
Code:
...and/or N3V appointed forum moderators...The bolding text old-timer side of Alberte :wave:
Last edited:
DLR,
I still do the same thing as well. It's part of the communication process, and in particular within a public environment. If we were to speak the way many of the posters do here in the real world, we would be thrown out of work, and painted as total idiots, or worse, rude and crude characters. We have to be polite, and the written word is much more difficult to use than just speaking in front of people. There is no real inflection in writing, and the intention can be missing if the communication skills aren't there. This is where the thinking and proofing before the "Submit Reply" button is pressed comes in.
Every day, as I said before for me, I have to be polite and nice no matter who the person is, and no matter how many times I'm asked the same thing. I just do it, and go on. Some people feel bad asking me, others are extremely grateful, and then others take what I have to offer for granted, and expect what I have to give is just that; it's seems to parallel the forums here.
John