The Angry 0.2m

M

Milaga

New member
I've noticed that, going back over previous track-work, some of my track seems to be floating 0.2m above the ground. I am pretty sure that this is track that I had set the spline height and used the smoothing tool on. I hadn't noticed it until recently since I use the MP-Wood track. The sides of the ballast are semi-transparent so it blends in with the ground well. I only became aware of this problem when I was going back and installing new signals. They are all, quite obviously, floating.

Last night I was evening trying out a few routes I found and I noticed that they had this problem too, even with many different tracks.

What is going on? I could have sworn that these track heights looked fine relative to the ground when I left them. Has anyone else had this trouble? How do I get around this?
 
The only Way I know of getting rid of the Floating space is using Fill Tracks. Problem is, Those are Typically of Narrow Gauge Variety, and There are few out there amongst the Hundreds of Track types... :o
 
Sampug394 said:
The only Way I know of getting rid of the Floating space is using Fill Tracks. Problem is, Those are Typically of Narrow Gauge Variety, and There are few out there amongst the Hundreds of Track types... :o
Click to expand...

Or drop the track splines by 0.2m after using the smooth spine tool. ;)
 
Sampug394 said:
That works too, but it's Unnecessarily Tedious on any Route...
Click to expand...

Another way is to clone the track and change or add a grounded entry in the config file to read grounded -0.2 or adjust to suit if needed.
That works as the track ballast is now lower than the ground by 0.2m, so when you smooth the spline the ground drops by 0.2m and the track is then flat to the ground or pretty damn close anyhow.

Effectively use the normal track where it is flat and the cloned where you are intending to use the smooth spline, or smooth all the track

Works on some of those hovering roads as well.

Bit of a pain if you are going to upload the route though as you are effectively altering an asset.
 
TRKAdjust utility

That's a great thread title, certainly got my attention!

There's a clever little utility by HiBaller called TRKAdjust which might be of interest. It certainly beats manually adjusting all those spline points one by one and it doesn't involve any changes to the track's config so you aren't changing the asset and don't need to clone it. Other users who download your 'adjusted' layout will not need to do anything, the spline heights will simply be at the setting you want.

Info and probably a download link to the program here:
http://dhrtrainz.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=56.0

Here is an excerpt from its Help file;

"Overview

TRKadjust was developed to allow changing the spline points of a track object in one operation. The TRK file associated with a route provides the source for this program. A preliminary backup of this file into a file marked as OLD is offered before any alteration of the TRK file is performed.​

The TRK file will contain ALL the splines that Trainz thinks are 'tracks'. If the individual KUID 'config.txt' file defines TYPE as "track", then it will be in this file. This means that TRKadjust can be used to adjust not only track splines but also some tunnels, bridges, fences, powerlines, platforms, roads, trees, and other spline-type objects.​

This version of TRKadjust has the ability to adjust individual tracks of one given KUID, a few selected KUIDs, or all kuids in the file. A screen list box is provided for KUID selection. Be advised though that TRKadjust will alter the height of ALL splines for a given KUID, not just those on one board or in a limited area.​

TRKadjust can be useful for several reasons, some of which are: ​

1) Joining modules of differing heights by adjusting the track on one module to fit the height of the attaching vertex on the other module. ​

2) Shifting the height of some tracks which appear to be 'floating' slightly above the terrain. In this instance, a slight negative value (near -0.30) would be about right.​

3) Shifting the height of a specific track-type object up or down. ​

It should also be noted that this program is designed for, and works with, TRS2004 and earlier versions. It has NOT been tested with TRS2006 or Trainz Classics. For anyone adventurous enough you could make a small test route in TRS2006, open it for editing, and direct TRKadjust to the resulting TRK file exposed in the Open for Edit folder. Then, commit the route again and try it. I will NOT support this use of TRKadjust however."​
 
Last edited:
clam1952 said:
Or drop the track splines by 0.2m after using the smooth spine tool. ;)
Click to expand...

As I was writing this I *knew* someone was going to say this. It seemed the obvious answer but it's certainly not very satisfactory.

Thanks for the responses, but I needed to test this all myself. So, I put five "MP-Track" tracks on a flat 0.0m baseboard. Sample 1 was a control that was not touched. Sample 2 I manually set both vertices to 0.0m. Samples 3 through 5 I set to -0.1m, -0.2m and +0.2m on each end manually.

I duplicated this set of five tracks and hit the "S" key to smooth the terrain under the spline. Interestingly enough, the terrain didn't change under Sample 1 but did under Sample 2. This was not expected at all. There was no difference in the height between the track and baseboard in samples 1 and 2. Since the height related to the terrain changed in Samples 3 through 5 the terrain also changed when I pressed the "S" key. It went down or up, which was no surprise.

I'm starting to feel kinda silly, now. Is *this* why I've hear people say that the "S" key is so evil? Because if it's this bugged then I'm never using it again, and suddenly mapping track to terrain has become overwhelmingly tedious. This is a showstopper for me. I may be fastidious when it comes to modelling, but I'm not obsessive compulsive.

My hunch is that this problem arises when you smooth a spline that has only one vertex set absolutely. Unfortunately the UI turns all vertices yellow so long as any of the vertices in a spline are set absolutely. It makes it hard to tell. I've observed situations when testing out my new YARN road splines in which I could dig tunnels into the ground by repeatedly smoothing the terrain under a spline.

I really don't know what's going on. But this is certainly not working as program predictably should. At worst there is a serious problem in the code that is altering height data.

In my test route where I placed these samples, despite the changes in height of the baseboard and several loading and saving sessions I did not experience any of the floating tracks. This has also been frustrating.

By the way, I'm running Trainz 2009.
 
Just noticed this thread.

Thanks very much for the plug Deane. My program will indeed work with any version of Trainz BUT for most of them you have to first put it in the Editing folder by opening it for edit. Once done, then you can locate it in the TRKAdjust program and move the vertex points however you wish. ALL of them will be moved thus keeping the gradient exactly as you had it before.

This will work with anything of a type=track (bus lines, shipping, etc)

Bill
 
HiBaller said:
Just noticed this thread.

Thanks very much for the plug Deane. My program will indeed work with any version of Trainz BUT for most of them you have to first put it in the Editing folder by opening it for edit. Once done, then you can locate it in the TRKAdjust program and move the vertex points however you wish. ALL of them will be moved thus keeping the gradient exactly as you had it before.

This will work with anything of a type=track (bus lines, shipping, etc)

Bill
Click to expand...

This will work with 2009? Well, that might solve my problem right there. On my next layout I'll remember to raise my track before smoothing.
 
I will have to create a test route in '09 to check, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. The format of the TRK file may be different for '09 so I may have to come out with a special version that can differentiate between, say, '04 and '06, and '09. In theory, however, putting the route in question into the Edit folder (Open for Edit) and applying TRKAdjust should work.

What I would to is to put a route into edit, then make a copy of the whole route in the edit folder BEFORE applying TRKAdjust. That way, if it messes up, you can open for edit again and past the backup copy right over the messed up route (again in Edit mode).

I will do a test route and report back here to this thread.

Bill
 
Milaga said:
My hunch is that this problem arises when you smooth a spline that has only one vertex set absolutely. Unfortunately the UI turns all vertices yellow so long as any of the vertices in a spline are set absolutely. It makes it hard to tell.
Click to expand...

If you 'set' the vertex height of one spline point, you also set the height of the two adjacent spline points, but that's all. So in effect you need to set the heights of every third vertex before using the 'smooth' tool. Then drop every vertex 0.20 meters and the result will be close to perfect. If you 'smooth' with non-fixed vertexes you accomplish nothing.

Andy ;)
 
I just did a test route with seven different tracks on it. I could adjust one, several, or all the tracks depending on which of the KUIDs I checked in my program. The whole operation took me 10 minutes from creation of the route to alteration of the heights on tracks.

This was done in TRS2009. I know TRS2006/2004 works fine so I can now say that it works in '09 also. Thanks for the opportunity to flail my software :hehe:

Just take the step to put the route into Edit mode in CMP/CM2 and THEN have TRKAdjust go do the tracks. Then, commit the Edited route.

PS: TRKAdjust runs on Vista and WIN7 just fine.

Bill
 
HiBaller said:
I just did a test route with seven different tracks on it. I could adjust one, several, or all the tracks depending on which of the KUIDs I checked in my program. The whole operation took me 10 minutes from creation of the route to alteration of the heights on tracks.

This was done in TRS2009. I know TRS2006/2004 works fine so I can now say that it works in '09 also. Thanks for the opportunity to flail my software :hehe:

Just take the step to put the route into Edit mode in CMP/CM2 and THEN have TRKAdjust go do the tracks. Then, commit the Edited route.

PS: TRKAdjust runs on Vista and WIN7 just fine.

Bill
Click to expand...

Well done Sir. :)
Wish I'd found out about this this a couple of weeks back as have just manually adjusted around 40 miles worth of 2 ft track, got quite quick at it in the end!
Still this will be an extremely useful addition for the next project,:) if I ever finish this one, just on 12 months so far.
 
Excellent! I'm going to go about my business as usual then and once I've gotten the track finalized I'll use the track adjust tool.
 
This would be great for my route.

I'm scared of damaging the route, so would it be wise to clone the route and do it then?
Might do that..

Sounds like a great tool!

David
 
If you lower the track (or do anything else to it) BEFORE you upload it, then everyone will get the lowered track just as if you had hand-lowered it vertex by vertex.

Same thing applies if you put it onto a CDP and send to to anyone - heights remain as they were when you CDP'ed it.

Bill
 
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