TANE Gremlin.

[ldowns]

For what its worth, on several occasions I've had to remove the track for several sections on either side of the disappearing segment and re-enter it. Usually the fix usually sticks after doing this. Its as if some underlying code for a track segment has gotten corrupted and keeps affecting the segment(s) connected to it.

--Lamont

 

[clam1952]

Due to the ancient Undo-bug, I have gotten in the habit of not using the undo-function unless I really, really have to. I never did see that during the earlier beta testing, but that doesn't mean it hasn't returned. Sometimes when fixing something in software older bugs rear their ugly selves again from the inside of the software.

I use undo quite a lot at the moment and never had a problem with it in TANE.

I've usually found that any problems with routes and track pre TANE were due to none related splines or ground textures in the area and not often the track. Not sure if that applies in TANE though.

Wonder if the compact route function in the main menu might fix some of these glitches? Try it on a clone though just in case it makes things worse!

 

[Sean_lee]

Interesting that,on my TS 12 route I removed the ground texture and replaced it, and then just removed anything in the problem area. And then put track thru.that stuck??? On my uploaded TS12 to T:ANE I am going to do the same thing and see what happens. My T:ANE route is still a problem moved track away from problem area,still vanishes. Now changing track and see what happens....Watch this space.

 

[Sean_lee]

Tried a few things, some on my TS12 route stuck. Maybe related to textures close by.??? My uploaded toT:ANE TS12 is still playing up. now trying different track types. So far not good. My T:ANE route has stuck with a different track in one spot, and vanished in another then changed track again and this one stuck. Definitely a deep seated coding problem, which comes out when a route gets large. I put in a bug report, and they asked me if a new route in edit route the problem occurred, Nope..I believe its size related. And so it goes on.

 

[JCitron]

Tried a few things, some on my TS12 route stuck. Maybe related to textures close by.??? My uploaded toT:ANE TS12 is still playing up. now trying different track types. So far not good. My T:ANE route has stuck with a different track in one spot, and vanished in another then changed track again and this one stuck. Definitely a deep seated coding problem, which comes out when a route gets large. I put in a bug report, and they asked me if a new route in edit route the problem occurred, Nope..I believe its size related. And so it goes on.

Nope. It's a layers problem still. You have stuff out of sync by placing stuff on one layer and stuff on another layer. Merging the layers together didn't work because some on the session layer was not there anymore, etc. If you want, I can check the route. Give me the kuid and name if it's on the DLS, or send me a PM with your email address and I'll give you access to a shared folder on my OneDrive. Just include any special dependencies which are not found in the usual places, or at least links to them.

To fix this I recommend creating a new route. It only has to be one baseboard.

When merging, attach your old route to the single baseboard.

When going through the layers:

Move all layers to the route layer including the session layer.

That should, hopefully, reset the problem you are having.

As we have discussed before, there are two causes we have found for the missing track and only the spline points.

1) Is some track does not render properly due to its age and poor design.
2) Layers.

The majority of the time it's layers. It's not size related. Two of my routes are huge with one being close to 200 miles (about 322 km) with parts dating back to December 28, 2003. My other route, which is 99% mergers, is a bit shorter at 160 miles (about 257.5 km). There are other routes which are about the same size if not bigger. Combined together they'd by 1,000 km(s) or more.

All of my routes make heavy use of Speed Trees, built-in, custom (modified), and third-party assets all without problem.

 

[Sean_lee]

Got this from Zec at Trainz, is this what you suggested.


1) Select your route in the Routes menu
2) Click on 'Edit route'
3) Once the route loads, click on 'main menu' on the top toolbar.
4) Click on 'Compact Route'.
5) You should see a window asking if you wish to continue, click on the checkmark.
6) Now save your route under a new name (do not overwrite the original).
7) Exit Surveyor
8) Now re-load the new copy of your route using the edit route button and try editing the route and see if these issues still occur.

Note, existing sessions will not be available to the route after following these steps.

Ill give it go in the meantime
Thanks

 

[Sean_lee]

Got this from Zec at Trainz, is this what you suggested.


1) Select your route in the Routes menu
2) Click on 'Edit route'
3) Once the route loads, click on 'main menu' on the top toolbar.
4) Click on 'Compact Route'.
5) You should see a window asking if you wish to continue, click on the checkmark.
6) Now save your route under a new name (do not overwrite the original).
7) Exit Surveyor
8) Now re-load the new copy of your route using the edit route button and try editing the route and see if these issues still occur.

Note, existing sessions will not be available to the route after following these steps.

Ill give it go in the meantime
Thanks

 

[Sean_lee]

Nope. It's a layers problem still. You have stuff out of sync by placing stuff on one layer and stuff on another layer. Merging the layers together didn't work because some on the session layer was not there anymore, etc. If you want, I can check the route. Give me the kuid and name if it's on the DLS, or send me a PM with your email address and I'll give you access to a shared folder on my OneDrive. Just include any special dependencies which are not found in the usual places, or at least links to them.

To fix this I recommend creating a new route. It only has to be one baseboard.

When merging, attach your old route to the single baseboard.

When going through the layers:

Move all layers to the route layer including the session layer.

That should, hopefully, reset the problem you are having.

As we have discussed before, there are two causes we have found for the missing track and only the spline points.

1) Is some track does not render properly due to its age and poor design.
2) Layers.

The majority of the time it's layers. It's not size related. Two of my routes are huge with one being close to 200 miles (about 322 km) with parts dating back to December 28, 2003. My other route, which is 99% mergers, is a bit shorter at 160 miles (about 257.5 km). There are other routes which are about the same size if not bigger. Combined together they'd by 1,000 km(s) or more.

All of my routes make heavy use of Speed Trees, built-in, custom (modified), and third-party assets all without problem.

Got this from Zec at Trainz, is this what you suggested.


1) Select your route in the Routes menu
2) Click on 'Edit route'
3) Once the route loads, click on 'main menu' on the top toolbar.
4) Click on 'Compact Route'.
5) You should see a window asking if you wish to continue, click on the checkmark.
6) Now save your route under a new name (do not overwrite the original).
7) Exit Surveyor
8) Now re-load the new copy of your route using the edit route button and try editing the route and see if these issues still occur.

Note, existing sessions will not be available to the route after following these steps.

Ill give it go in the meantime
Thanks

 

[JCitron]

Got this from Zec at Trainz, is this what you suggested.


1) Select your route in the Routes menu
2) Click on 'Edit route'
3) Once the route loads, click on 'main menu' on the top toolbar.
4) Click on 'Compact Route'.
5) You should see a window asking if you wish to continue, click on the checkmark.
6) Now save your route under a new name (do not overwrite the original).
7) Exit Surveyor
8) Now re-load the new copy of your route using the edit route button and try editing the route and see if these issues still occur.

Note, existing sessions will not be available to the route after following these steps.

Ill give it go in the meantime
Thanks

No. Just create a new single-baseboard route then merge your old route INTO the new one-baseboard route. After you've attached the old route on the new one, you'll see there are layer conflicts because the tab on the interface is red. Click on that tab and move all the route layers and session layers to the route layer.

 

[Sean_lee]

No. Just create a new single-baseboard route then merge your old route INTO the new one-baseboard route. After you've attached the old route on the new one, you'll see there are layer conflicts because the tab on the interface is red. Click on that tab and move all the route layers and session layers to the route layer.[/QUO

Tried that just ended up with a blank baseboard. the name I used to merge into is on my menu but no route. I must be missing a point somewhere. Never been to confident in doing this sort of stuff. Cant figure out Derps. Anyhow sorting a copy to you shortly.

 

[blueodessey]

Need a little more input on 1 Tile Spline Length limitations?

.
I hope this help you out and just remember to work within TANEs limitations eg. don't try to extend a spline longer than a baseboard.
Merry Christmas
cheers
Graeme.

I just read something in your response which I don't think I was aware of, in regards to T:ANE limitations.......

"don't try to extend a spline longer than a baseboard"

Are you saying that any type of Spline should not exceed a baseboard? Track-age Tree Splines, Bridges, the whole gambit?

I have a merged route of 10X or more layouts 60-70 combined Miles of Railroad, from different folks, and with that said, I need to go back and make sure I, and the original authors, haven't exceeded the the 1 tile limit for Splines!

Could also explain why Frame Drops and other weird things occur in some spots of RR collage.

I don't mind if it is true, I just don't recall this ever being mentioned.

 

[Sean_lee]

No. Just create a new single-baseboard route then merge your old route INTO the new one-baseboard route. After you've attached the old route on the new one, you'll see there are layer conflicts because the tab on the interface is red. Click on that tab and move all the route layers and session layers to the route layer.[/QUO

Tried that just ended up with a blank baseboard. the name I used to merge into is on my menu but no route. I must be missing a point somewhere. Never been to confident in doing this sort of stuff. Cant figure out Derps. Anyhow sorting a copy to you shortly.

OK.Just did an experiment with my old TS12 route moving that to the one baseboard.Using merge route. This again is where terminology in computers with me falls apart. I had the empty baseboard with this as well. What was not done was SAVE AS..new name for route. not just plain save and exit. SAVE AS the new one baseboard route,and all seems to be there. Hopefully I may have crossed another Rubicon. Confirm if thats what should have been done
Thanks.

 

[JCitron]

A save or save as should work.

Generally save is used to keep the existing files as-is but updated, where as, save as is used to create a new name and you can always overwrite the old files with the new save-as'ed ones.

 

[Sean_lee]

A save or save as should work.

Generally save is used to keep the existing files as-is but updated, where as, save as is used to create a new name and you can always overwrite the old files with the new save-as'ed ones.

Spent a frustrating afternoon using merge or compact route with my uploaded TS12 route to T:ANE So many different outcomes. Before something stuck. Putting route on one baseboard, then merging a multiple route layer and a session layer. Resulted in a crash to desktop about 3 times. Rebuild database fixed it for now. Ended up with multiple routes of varying names. I deleted and started again. Even then it took a number of merge route attempts to get something to stick. My son who is a gamer says why do I bother, Game coded by high school drop outs.???? So thats the story so far, I will move up the line to the next problem.

 

[grazlash]

I just read something in your response which I don't think I was aware of, in regards to T:ANE limitations.......

"don't try to extend a spline longer than a baseboard"

Are you saying that any type of Spline should not exceed a baseboard? Track-age Tree Splines, Bridges, the whole gambit?

I have a merged route of 10X or more layouts 60-70 combined Miles of Railroad, from different folks, and with that said, I need to go back and make sure I, and the original authors, haven't exceeded the the 1 tile limit for Splines!

Could also explain why Frame Drops and other weird things occur in some spots of RR collage.

I don't mind if it is true, I just don't recall this ever being mentioned.

The problems I have with splines is only while building my route, I can't recall it being an issue while in driver. It happens with track, roads and fences where if the spine is extended too far surveyor will hang. Save exit and re enter fixes the issue. On a particular portion of my DEM I believe it has also caused hanging while adjusting terrain height and rotating houses also and it just happens to be close to where I originally placed a very long bridge which exhibited the same behaviour.
I don't think you have anything to worry about with a route that is already built as it only displays this behaviour in surveyor.
Cheers
Graeme

 

[JCitron]

This spline issue was also apparent in TS12 where splines would most likely cause the program to freeze up and sometimes crash. At least in T:ANE we only get the spline points.

This issue is most likely related to how the splines are generated. The are after all many, many polygons all strung together in long strings. In the end these are quite large objects which need to be rendered. By inserting a point, it breaks up the loading of the model into smaller chunks which allows our video cards and CPUs to process the data.

 

[blueodessey]

Ah Gentleman, now after reading what has been added, I had to put on thinking cap, as my Parents and Grand Parents would have said: In TS-12 now I remember the Spline problem when I would do lots of extensions et all.

This was before I went from mechanical HD to SSD and increased my Ram from 12 to 16 Max allowed for this Laptop.

Usually these problems would rear their ugly heads when I had been working on a route for 45mins or more, and when I extended any and all type splines. The computer would freeze, or I couldn't make some make normal operations like adding a train, or deleting something.

I soon learned that when I saw the beginning of these issues, I needed to do a save/save-as operation if I could, however if it went to far south, I would loose my work and have to exit Trainz and then restart the program and eat 1-2hrs of production.

Occasionally I would have to delete Trainz completely and re-install it, fortunately I had backed up all my routes and inventory, but even with that, it took 2hrs or more to reload everything! I did this twice that I remember.

I figured out that two things occurred when I encountered said issues:

The Hard Drive was to slow at 4200Revs, and 12 Megs didn't cut it either, so if it wasn't the Hard Drive trying to play catch up, it was RAM losing the battle with Windows 7, 8, at the time and like the rest of you, my Computer would lockup, crash, requiring a reboot, needless to say you know what happens to unsaved files in Win Environment it will ultimately lead to corrupted files or worse.

My best solution, maxed my Ram to 16 Megs, add SSD over mechanical, and finally, I was holding my breath, upgrade to Win 10, because of implied better memory mgt......

Now I need to take some responsibility here, I should in the future, as others have suggested, spend more money for Gaming Computer Laptop than trying to go on the cheap like I did, because it cost me dearly, so in retrospect hard lessons well learned and experience is in the end the best teacher painful as it is.

I'm glad I upgraded the Computer for now, but I'm stuck with no upgrade for dedicated GPU on MOB, which sucks and always has, and it's ridiculous or impossible to make a MOB change out on Laptop, just plain to hard by design. So there you have it.

Now there is a ray of sunshine for ole Blue here, I do have a brand new HP Desktop, that I can work with later when I get some time, and it is somewhat portable in the sense everything is contained in a monitor, and I believe the GPU is upgrade-able , so will see when I get to that part. And I'll report back later in the year, as other pressing things, like a major roof leak need my attention first.