ray_whiley
Active member
That's what I was trying to remember earlier - thanks for the reminder.
Ray
Steepest railroad grade?
- Thread starter overkill650
- Start date
That's what I was trying to remember earlier - thanks for the reminder.
Ray
cascaderailroad
New member
Mt Washington Cog Rwy is rediculously steep !
Most Mainline grades are kept well below 2%, although there are many excptions.
My steepest gradient is 2.37% on the "Slide", and everwhere else 1.75% or less. My Wopsy RR NG line has @ 4.75% and is only for very short trains.
Most Mainline grades are kept well below 2%, although there are many excptions.
My steepest gradient is 2.37% on the "Slide", and everwhere else 1.75% or less. My Wopsy RR NG line has @ 4.75% and is only for very short trains.
Different expressions for the same thing, Europeans use some kind of wierd thing called mils which I never tried to figure out. Brits use 1 in XXX, Yankee Doodles use X%, amounts to the same thing. 1 in 100 is 1%, 1 in 50 is 2%, 1 foot in 100 feet is a 1% grade, 1 yard in 100 yards is 1%, 1 mile in 100 miles is 1%.
1% really isn't much, I've seen mainlines where 3% for short distances to get under or over something is common, and industrial spurs 6% is not unheard of. Main thing is you would prefer that the entire world was bulldozed flat, shove all the mountains into the valleys to level everything out, but that just ain't practical. So surveyors plot out a route that will give the widest curves and shallowest grades, using steep grades and tight curves only where the terrain doesn't allow a better choice - examples, Tehachapi Loop and Horseshoe Curve were unusual solutions to grades that would have been too steep. Another one;
That's looking east toward downtown Chicago, on the Douglas Park CTA L line. Picture was taken from the back car of the train, going around the curve from Paulina Street (1700 west) to the expressway median. It crosses over Ashland (1600 west) then has to descend some 40 or 50 feet (never measured it) to cross under Loomis (1400 west) in less than a quarter of a mile. Dunno what the grade is, but it looks like 8% to 10%. Why that works, this line runs only the L/subway trains, each car has four axles and four traction motors, with every wheel powered and no "trailers" to drag you can get away with steeper grades.
1% really isn't much, I've seen mainlines where 3% for short distances to get under or over something is common, and industrial spurs 6% is not unheard of. Main thing is you would prefer that the entire world was bulldozed flat, shove all the mountains into the valleys to level everything out, but that just ain't practical. So surveyors plot out a route that will give the widest curves and shallowest grades, using steep grades and tight curves only where the terrain doesn't allow a better choice - examples, Tehachapi Loop and Horseshoe Curve were unusual solutions to grades that would have been too steep. Another one;
That's looking east toward downtown Chicago, on the Douglas Park CTA L line. Picture was taken from the back car of the train, going around the curve from Paulina Street (1700 west) to the expressway median. It crosses over Ashland (1600 west) then has to descend some 40 or 50 feet (never measured it) to cross under Loomis (1400 west) in less than a quarter of a mile. Dunno what the grade is, but it looks like 8% to 10%. Why that works, this line runs only the L/subway trains, each car has four axles and four traction motors, with every wheel powered and no "trailers" to drag you can get away with steeper grades.
overkill650
New member
cool sniper, thats an interesting pic. if you look at the link i put in the original post, that spur had old rs-3s on it moving 5-8 coal hoppers. i could try to find a pic if you like
cascaderailroad
New member
Trainz uses % in Gradients ... and the metric system in baseboard height (no matter whether your route is set for metric or imperial) ... may as well comply and learn both systems ... either that or have conversion tables handy.
I absolutely love the metric system ... and I am a US person !
I absolutely love the metric system ... and I am a US person !
Katoomba Scenic Railway is fantastic fun! I can't wait to do it again sometime
Whatever happened to the proposed, (late 80's?) Cradle Rocker roller coaster I wonder?
Ooo! Orphan rocker.. it's all there in the wiki
ahem.. *shrinks o.o
There is a good account of the sad tale of the Katoomba Orphan Rocker roller coaster (at same location as the start of the Katoomba Scenic Railway) at http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...ng-nowhere-fast/2006/01/28/1138319491227.html
Basically, it started construction in the 1990s but has never been open for public operation. All sorts of rumours have been circulating about the ride - such as roller coaster cars going missing in test runs - all denied by the owners. For those who don't know the roller coaster is built on the edge of a 200m (600 ft) drop into a wilderness valley below (where the "missing cars" have allegedly gone) and would make a very spectacular and scary ride if it ever did start operating.
schweitzerdude
Active member
Thanks sniper297 for the Chicago pic
Your pic brings back memories, since I grew up in Chicago, and went to University of Illinois-Chicago (Chicago Circle back then), so I'm very familiar with the scene. On the right side of your pic is the UIC Admin building or whatever they called it which is one of the few buildings in the world which gets wider as you go up. When I took the "L" to school, I used the "Congress-Milwaukee" as it was known then since it was more convenient for me than the "Douglas Park-Milwaukee". Whew am I getting old or what?
Your pic brings back memories, since I grew up in Chicago, and went to University of Illinois-Chicago (Chicago Circle back then), so I'm very familiar with the scene. On the right side of your pic is the UIC Admin building or whatever they called it which is one of the few buildings in the world which gets wider as you go up. When I took the "L" to school, I used the "Congress-Milwaukee" as it was known then since it was more convenient for me than the "Douglas Park-Milwaukee". Whew am I getting old or what?
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Well there is at times 11% grade at Cass in West Virginia the engines can pull 5 to 6 passengers car up the grade.
overkill650
New member
wow. that is steep.
socalwb909
Photo Creator
-I would say for mainline U.S. freight, would be 3-3.5% grades!
-Joe
-Joe
UIC? Never heard of it. :hehe:
That's my youngest on a trip to the UIC Medical School of Dentistry, like most autistic kids he LOVES trains, so we always rode the L to the dentist which made him happy about going to the dentist.
One more L shot just for fun;
Pic from the Lake Street L, can't remember if it's "green line" or "pink line" these days. Building is downtown near Clark & Lake, interesting mirror treatment to the windows.
Another Lake Street L shot;
Crossing over the Belt Line in 2000, from what I've heard Brachs Candy is gone now. This is the west end of 40th Street yard, at Kenton (4600 west) it's at grade level, it starts a 1.5% grade climbing to about 20 feet at Laramie (5200 west). The north-south Belt has to be high enough to clear the east west C&NW (now UP Metra west line) and the east-west L has to climb higher still to clear the Belt Line. That grade is only about 2% since the L line has plenty of room between the Pulaski (4000 west) and Cicero (4800 west) stations.
Next pic;
Out in the 'burbs, River Forest station looking east. Crosses over Lathrop (7600 west) then has to cross under the SOO Line tracks (bridge in the background) a quarter mile west, 7800 west, then climb back up again to cross over Thatcher at 8000 west. So inside half a mile you got a 3% downgrade then 3% back up again.
That's my youngest on a trip to the UIC Medical School of Dentistry, like most autistic kids he LOVES trains, so we always rode the L to the dentist which made him happy about going to the dentist.
One more L shot just for fun;
Pic from the Lake Street L, can't remember if it's "green line" or "pink line" these days. Building is downtown near Clark & Lake, interesting mirror treatment to the windows.
Another Lake Street L shot;
Crossing over the Belt Line in 2000, from what I've heard Brachs Candy is gone now. This is the west end of 40th Street yard, at Kenton (4600 west) it's at grade level, it starts a 1.5% grade climbing to about 20 feet at Laramie (5200 west). The north-south Belt has to be high enough to clear the east west C&NW (now UP Metra west line) and the east-west L has to climb higher still to clear the Belt Line. That grade is only about 2% since the L line has plenty of room between the Pulaski (4000 west) and Cicero (4800 west) stations.
Next pic;
Out in the 'burbs, River Forest station looking east. Crosses over Lathrop (7600 west) then has to cross under the SOO Line tracks (bridge in the background) a quarter mile west, 7800 west, then climb back up again to cross over Thatcher at 8000 west. So inside half a mile you got a 3% downgrade then 3% back up again.
overkill650
New member
hey joe, if you look at the link in the OP, i found an elevation chart that shows a spur line to an old coal powerplant by me. one part is a 5% grade that 3 rs-3s would back down 5-8 coal hoppers. 
I'm a long time fan of short lines and logging roads, where they do things the bigger roads would never allow.
The steepest grade I ever heard of, used on a friction (normal) railroad, was 15%. and the only loco that could barely make that grade, was a Shay geared locomotive. A 2-trucker to be more specific, as there were switchbacks that limited maximum train length to just a couple cars at a time. Worse still, the grade could not be climbed in a pouring rain, as a lot of sand had to be thrown on the tracks, often by hand, and rain washed it off or made it too slick.
If memory serves, which I wouldn't bet the farm on, the railroad was in New Zealand or Australia. There is a term for the type of RR, that was somewhat common there, but I cant remember the term. Something about getting goods up and across steep terrain bordering the seacoast, where the coast and inland had more normal grades, but they had to get creative to get between one and the other.
In any case, that stretch was only in use for a short time, until a tunnel or bypass route was put in to get past that steep section.
Cog, or rack, railroads operate in a different way. They have some sort of rack or ladder as part of the track, and some sort of gearing on the locos that meshes with it. It works as a ratchet, to keep the train from sliding down the track, so they can have very steep grades. Grades far beyond anything any friction road could ever have. But such RRs can also be used for pulling heavy loads as well. The Panama Canal has, or did have, such a RR line, to pull ships thru the locks.
The steepest grade I ever heard of, used on a friction (normal) railroad, was 15%. and the only loco that could barely make that grade, was a Shay geared locomotive. A 2-trucker to be more specific, as there were switchbacks that limited maximum train length to just a couple cars at a time. Worse still, the grade could not be climbed in a pouring rain, as a lot of sand had to be thrown on the tracks, often by hand, and rain washed it off or made it too slick.
If memory serves, which I wouldn't bet the farm on, the railroad was in New Zealand or Australia. There is a term for the type of RR, that was somewhat common there, but I cant remember the term. Something about getting goods up and across steep terrain bordering the seacoast, where the coast and inland had more normal grades, but they had to get creative to get between one and the other.
In any case, that stretch was only in use for a short time, until a tunnel or bypass route was put in to get past that steep section.
Cog, or rack, railroads operate in a different way. They have some sort of rack or ladder as part of the track, and some sort of gearing on the locos that meshes with it. It works as a ratchet, to keep the train from sliding down the track, so they can have very steep grades. Grades far beyond anything any friction road could ever have. But such RRs can also be used for pulling heavy loads as well. The Panama Canal has, or did have, such a RR line, to pull ships thru the locks.
AussiePaul
New member
Rack Railways in Australia
My understanding is there were two Rack Railways in Australia. Mt Morgan and Mt Lyell.
I spent some time in a coal mining town about 3 hrs drive away from Rockhampton and Mt Morgan is 38 klm South of Rocky.
The track had a gradient of 1:16.5 according to this article...
http://www.mountmorgan.org.au/Railway.php
I read that as the overall gradient.
I wonder if that means the steepest part of it was a lot more... I suppose, if I understand what is written correctly, it does.
Some pictures of the Mt Morgan mechanism and a similar loco (From Mt Lyell) here ... http://www.australiansteam.com/QGR Abt.htm
Cheers,
Paul.
My understanding is there were two Rack Railways in Australia. Mt Morgan and Mt Lyell.
I spent some time in a coal mining town about 3 hrs drive away from Rockhampton and Mt Morgan is 38 klm South of Rocky.
The track had a gradient of 1:16.5 according to this article...
http://www.mountmorgan.org.au/Railway.php
I read that as the overall gradient.
I wonder if that means the steepest part of it was a lot more... I suppose, if I understand what is written correctly, it does.
Some pictures of the Mt Morgan mechanism and a similar loco (From Mt Lyell) here ... http://www.australiansteam.com/QGR Abt.htm
Cheers,
Paul.
To sniper297:
Here's what I say about being Autistic:
My brother from another mother
I'm autistic too. Did he get started off with Thomas the Tank Engine like I did?
I'm actually one of six autistic students who graduated in from high school in '08 and all of us graduated with Honors (for the smartest people attending high school).
How much does your son know about the trains that travel across the country everyday? I've been in love with trains since I was introduced to Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum's (Chattanooga, Tennessee) Ex-US Army Transportation Corps. 2-8-0 #610 when I was two. I've been researching trains for as long as I can remenber. I've moved from general knowledge about trains (i.e. the railroads that made the first transcontinental railroad), to the engine used in Electro-Motive Diesel's SD70ACe (16-710-G3c-T2).
Here's what I say about being Autistic:
My brother from another mother
I'm autistic too. Did he get started off with Thomas the Tank Engine like I did?
I'm actually one of six autistic students who graduated in from high school in '08 and all of us graduated with Honors (for the smartest people attending high school).
How much does your son know about the trains that travel across the country everyday? I've been in love with trains since I was introduced to Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum's (Chattanooga, Tennessee) Ex-US Army Transportation Corps. 2-8-0 #610 when I was two. I've been researching trains for as long as I can remenber. I've moved from general knowledge about trains (i.e. the railroads that made the first transcontinental railroad), to the engine used in Electro-Motive Diesel's SD70ACe (16-710-G3c-T2).
The Panama Canal still has a rack-and-pinion system. Worth noting about the locomoties used to move the boats thru the Panama Canal is that when they lead a boat into one of the locks, the locomotives must climb a 45 degree grade, or rising 1 foot for every 1 foot, 100 feet for every 100 feet, or a 100% grade! Norfolk Southern's (U.S.) Saluda Grade in North Carolina is the steepest mainline grade in the United States: a 4% grade (4 feet every 100 feet). However, it hasn't been used for years. The only mainline that comes to mind that has been abandoned (or unused for a long time) because of the grades is the former Denver and Rio Grande Western's (Now Union Pacific) Tennessee Pass mainline, with grades in excess of 3% (3 feet every 100 feet) on its climb over the continental divide at Tennessee Pass.
AussiePaul
New member
NON RACK LINES???
Excuse me??
As far as I can see the OP said nothing about non rack lines.
Look out!!! Here come the thought police!!!!
Excuse me??
As far as I can see the OP said nothing about non rack lines.
Look out!!! Here come the thought police!!!!