SP in San Fransico

[vonhammer_87]

Well I' m in the process of starting an HO layout ( about 9' x 13') and am planning on modeling Southern Pacific in the San Fransisco area during WW2. I got the idea after I acquired a Bachman Daylight loco at a train show.

Anyway, i was going to attempt to model it in trainz first ( i have 2010), and was looking for assistance with doing research into what SP's activity's were in that area, and also the was planning on doing a port secene featuring the SF Belt Line.

help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[SuperFudd]

I believe SP had ferry operation to San Francisco from Oakland as well as the run on the Penesula.
HO on "only" 9' x 13'? I have not had to think that "small" since I got Trainz and scraped my 5.5' x 10' Nscale layout, which I then built in Trainz using one full base board.
For what it is worth, I recomand putting the Bachman GS4 on display and building your layout only in Trainz.
Either way, allot of internet research would be in order.

 

[vonhammer_87]

I see, the car ferry operation would be interesting to try in trainz. I was actully planning on doing a double decker, and there's just something about running actual trains on a layout.

I've put a few books on SP on my Xmas list, and as far Internet research goes, it's difficult trying to find info from that era, especially related to time scheduals and the like.

 

[bl4882]

Hello,

Here are a few links you might find handy.

Wx4 Dome O Foam http://www.wx4.org/to/foam/a_rrcontents.html . This is one of my favorites. Lots of info on San Francisco, the Peninsula, and San Jose area, and other areas as well. Also valuable links to other Espee sites, many with a lot of information you are focusing on.

my Espee Modelers Home Page http://espee.railfan.net/espee.html . Tons of photos of locomotives, rolling stock, stations and depots, and much else, shown with a modeler's point of view in mind.

Also, the public library can be a great source of material. Check to see if yours is part of a network. Our county library here is, so I can get stuff from the collections of a dozen or so libraries, which increases your chances of finding what you are looking for.

Good luck and have fun.

Bernie

 

[1curmudgn]

SP ferries were commuter type rather than car ferries. Waterfront railroad was owned by city, not SP. Probably the largest SP footprint in San Fran was their downtown headquarters building.

East Bay locales would be better bet for that era, particularly Kaiser shipyards and Standard Oil refinery in Richmond. By the way, Santa Fe was also very active in East Bay.

Not much going in San Jose at that time. Mostly prune orchards, etc.

 

[vonhammer_87]

East Bay locales would be better bet for that era, particularly Kaiser shipyards and Standard Oil refinery in Richmond. By the way, Santa Fe was also very active in East Bay.

I see, I was thinking about having a port scene on my layout anyway.

Waterfront railroad was owned by city, not SP.

That would be the SF belt line wouldn't it? Cause I was thinking about including that or a portaion of it on my layout including an interchange with the other major railroads as well. And i did find a web site which somebody modeled the Belt Line and has some info as well.

Now as far Trainz content is concerned, I've already got most of the SP stuff from the DLS, including the SF route blank and the daylight loco. Anyone know where i can find some more? depots and other rr buildings would be nice also am looking for some military loads and troop cars WWII era.

 

[1curmudgn]

Santa Fe did run railroad car ferries from Oakland/Alameda to SF and Richmond.

Most military (army) supplies shipped from Port Chicago which was almost next door to Camp Stoneman in Pittsburg.

 

[bl4882]

Not much going in San Jose at that time. Mostly prune orchards, etc.[/quote]


I differ. San Jose was a division point between the Coast and Western divisions. At its height, Newhall/Santa Clara and College Park yards were switching something like 60,000 cars a month and originating a good number of trains. Cahill Street Station was host to a serious commuter operation to and from San Francisco. The coast division had the largest volume of passenger traffic on the Espee and all of the trains passed through Cahill Street Station. And there was more to the industries than prunes. It ran the gamut from machinery to chemicals to canneries and plenty more, and during the war there were the troop and equipment trains to the installations along the coast, in addition to the regular freight and passenger traffic.

I didn't mention it because the OP seemed settled on San Francisco or the East Bay, but a model railroader could do a lot worse than choose to model aspects of the Santa Clara Valley operation.

:wave:

Bernie

 

[vonhammer_87]

I differ. San Jose was a division point between the Coast and Western divisions. At its height, Newhall/Santa Clara and College Park yards were switching something like 60,000 cars a month and originating a good number of trains. Cahill Street Station was host to a serious commuter operation to and from San Francisco. The coast division had the largest volume of passenger traffic on the Espee and all of the trains passed through Cahill Street Station. And there was more to the industries than prunes. It ran the gamut from machinery to chemicals to canneries and plenty more, and during the war there were the troop and equipment trains to the installations along the coast, in addition to the regular freight and passenger traffic.

Hmm, with all that info that might make me consider that option also, if the San Fransisco area plan doesn't work.

What I'm really looking for is SP's depots in the SF area, specifically king st terminal. since I am looking to do the belt line.

 

[NormP]

vonhammer_87.

I'm not sure if the following info is of any help to you with your Map ?
There is a large 4Mb Dem/Hog map on the DLS of SF made be "Fishlipsatwork" (Paul) the Kuid is <59012:10128> Am not sure just how much of the Rail line you are doing is included ?
I used some of the Map to make my SF Cable car route and deleted quite a lot of boards not required.

NormP.

 

[vonhammer_87]

vonhammer_87.

I'm not sure if the following info is of any help to you with your Map ?
There is a large 4Mb Dem/Hog map on the DLS of SF made be "Fishlipsatwork" (Paul) the Kuid is <59012:10128> Am not sure just how much of the Rail line you are doing is included ?
I used some of the Map to make my SF Cable car route and deleted quite a lot of boards not required.

NormP.

yup got that actually, never really ventured into using Hog/DEM maps kinda confusing on trying to figure what the all the lines mean

 

[NormP]

Thats OK,just thought I'd mention it,I still have a small list of the main Hog colours used.

Norm.

 

[Timothetoolman]

vonhammer_87,

I suggest you have a look at the Pentrex film "Southern Pacfic-1941" It has a segment on SP workings in San Fran in the early 40's, including the Ferry opperation around Mission Bay.

Just thought it might help

Cheers
Timo

 

[SuperFudd]

It is my understanding that Sant Fe ran RR ferrys out of Richmond and Southern Pacific ran RR ferrys out of Oakland. Yes, SP had many non RR ferrys also. They even had a sea going steam ship line.

 

[vonhammer_87]

vonhammer_87,

I suggest you have a look at the Pentrex film "Southern Pacfic-1941" It has a segment on SP workings in San Fran in the early 40's, including the Ferry opperation around Mission Bay.

Just thought it might help

Cheers
Timo

Hmm, I definatley would check that out. I've been watch alot if the old rr films from the 40s and 50s on YouTube. Found one from 1937 on the daylight. It was a promotional that SP did tilted 'Daylighting the Padres Trail". Also if you check out the user PoathArchives, they got some great stuff, mostly old newsreels and the like.

 

[bl4882]

Thanks for the tip on PoathArchives.

Bernie

 

[vonhammer_87]

No problem, another valuable resource worth taking a look at. I may be 23, but I sure do like all that old footage. I even occasionally listen Jack Benny...

 

[1curmudgn]

It is my understanding that Sant Fe ran RR ferrys out of Richmond and Southern Pacific ran RR ferrys out of Oakland. Yes, SP had many non RR ferrys also. They even had a sea going steam ship line.

SP ran auto ferries from Oakland which were discontinued in '39 after Bay Bridge was completed. Having said that, they did run one occasionally from Oakland Mole to China Basin but that run ended in '34, I believe.

Only WWII rail car ferries were from NWP, WP, and Santa Fe to both China Basin and Pier 43 in S.F.

Hmmm, wasn't NWP owned by SP at that point in time?

 

[1curmudgn]

Yes, there were also cherry orchards.

Seriously, I stand corrected. I forgot about Bean/FMC and CalCan and I was unaware that the two freight yards processed that many cars. Pretty impressive.