Simulators - Low Retention Rate

[boleyd]

On the AVSIM site I read that simulators usually retain only 2% of the customers due to the complex operation of the program. I would guess that games generally have a much better retention rate. Because of the low initial customer interest, compared to games, it seem to be crucial that a program like Trainz takes steps to improve retention that in-turn results in addon revenue.

The apparent tactic is to add gaming elements to the simulator and to make it simpler to operate. A competitive product has already taken that approach in a major way. Will N3v be forced to place more focus on gaming - ease of use, points and accolades, multiplayer, more addons with related competitive levels?

 

[tariacuri]

I've been thinking of posting a long - non complaining - email about my struggle to learn to make what I consider to be quality content for the game. The Sketchup exporter makes a huge dent here but in short - I think more time is needed facilitating scripting, and car building for the game. IMO if folks were more easily able to make their own interactive content the audience would be made significantly broader. My suggestion for NV3 would be to let the game remain static at the current 2012 engine while their efforts were devoted to streamlining the content production process. I understand that they would fall behind in some aspects of the game but the payoff may be worth it??

 

[tariacuri]

And, in thinking about this, there is a significant art element. The Payware products all have subtle differences in their approach to weathering, details, etc. This is more like art then it is in recreating reality. This is also apparent - at least to me - in the differences between routes. Not sure how, but this aspect should be exploited in advertising, promotion, etc. The art in recreating landscapes, etc. Speaking for myself, I enjoy this aspect more then actually running the trains!

Recreating a virtual reality is an art I suppose - sorry, just had a very nice hand rolled product from an Island south of Miami, and a couple of glasses of nice white wine. After these events pontification will ensue (LOL).

 

[hminky]

If you want to "railroad" there is only one choice: Microsoft Train Simulator and making activities with Skyline Computing's "Activity Generator".

Neither Trainz or Railworks have any "railroad" playability. Once you play the available sessions the game is done. Writing your own sessions doesn't work because you know the ending. Running random AI trains and going "oo and ah" isn't railroading.

But since most people in the "train sim" community aren't interested in "railroading operation", lack of railroading playability doesn't matter.

Harold

 

[bl4882]

Hello Harold,

You can introduce aleatory elements to any session in the same way model railroaders have been doing it for three quarters of a century or more. Just make up a deck of index cards with contingent events written on them and draw one every half hour or hour, or make up a list of such events on a sheet of paper and number them, say, one to twelve. Then you can roll two dice and follow the event with a number that corresponds to the roll of the dice instead of drawing cards. Then sessions need not be the same.

Model railroaders have long been enthralled with prototypical operation, even without the introduction of gaming elements. But if you need them to keep interest, you can go for it with a little effort and virtually no expense.

Bernie

 

[Mouse84]

If you want to "railroad" there is only one choice: Microsoft Train Simulator and making activities with Skyline Computing's "Activity Generator".

Neither Trainz or Railworks have any "railroad" playability. Once you play the available sessions the game is done. Writing your own sessions doesn't work because you know the ending. Running random AI trains and going "oo and ah" isn't railroading.

But since most people in the "train sim" community aren't interested in "railroading operation", lack of railroading playability doesn't matter.

Harold

That's funny, I've been railroading for over 20 years and Trainz is the only way to railroad on the computer. For most of us railroaders, we run over the same "route" month after month, with the only variety is the difference in the trains, much like different sessions on the same route in Trainz.

 

[davesnow]

That's funny, I've been railroading for over 20 years and Trainz is the only way to railroad on the computer. For most of us railroaders, we run over the same "route" month after month, with the only variety is the difference in the trains, much like different sessions on the same route in Trainz.

I totally agree.

------------------

 

[hminky]

That's funny, I've been railroading for over 20 years and Trainz is the only way to railroad on the computer. For most of us railroaders, we run over the same "route" month after month, with the only variety is the difference in the trains, much like different sessions on the same route in Trainz.

That is "train driving". I guess my definition for "railroading" has more aspects than that.

Harold

 

[Euphod]

Will N3v be forced to place more focus on gaming - ease of use, points and accolades, multiplayer, more addons with related competitive levels?

I don't see that as a bad thing, and they have already taken baby steps in that direction. As long as the sandbox element of the game is left intact I don't see how they can fail to compete with whatever else is out there.

 

[SuperFudd]

there is only one choice: Microsoft Train Simulator

Is Microsoft still in business?

At least I don't think Train Simulator is, not that it matters.

Seriously, It would help to make submital to the Down Load Station much easier. I have had such bad experiences with it that I avoid doing so now.

 

[baz66]

Hmmmm Harold. Do you have any evidence to suggest that "most people aren't interested in railroading" I'm sure the sim would have died long ago if in fact that is true.
baz

 

[hminky]

Hmmmm Harold. Do you have any evidence to suggest that "most people aren't interested in railroading" I'm sure the sim would have died long ago if in fact that is true.
baz

Most people in the "train modeling" universe, solid or virtual, aren't really interest in "railroading operations",at least get the quote right. The sims haven't died because people are interested in trains. The same reason "solid modeling" hasn't died. Most "model train" people look at you as if you had leprosy if you mention operations.

Look at how few people respond to the CMTMSystem posts or anything about car forwarding. Dave's system shows promise to make Trainz infinitely playable. Yes, MSTS is the only infinitely playable game because of Activity Generator, whether anyone likes it or not. I am not saying it is a better or worse game just more "playable".

Harold

 

[oknotsen]

A few questions

A few questions:

That is "train driving". I guess my definition for "railroading" has more aspects than that.

Could you clearify in (more) detail what your definition is?

Yes, MSTS is the only infinitely playable game because of Activity Generator

For those of us not familiair with that (like...erm.. me), could you explain to us what it does?

Seriously, It would help to make submital to the Down Load Station much easier.

To my experience, you click upload in CM, check dependencies, confirm and confirm a 2nd time when the email arives. How would you like to make that easyer?

 

[boleyd]

My objective is not to jump into the usual opinions about aspects of the program but to consider how gaming can be a part of the simulation without harming it. Gaming, that does not interfere with the simulation, creates revenue and that protects our interests. This can be done but N3v needs to see the path.

 

[steamboateng]

I like your view bolyd. If Trainz could generate revenue; Trainz Dollarz, or Trainz Euroz, or Trainz Ruplez, we could then have an option to trade that for an FCT or 3rd party payware.
If we could figure a way for a route to pay for itself, then Trainz would be a very popular sim, indeed!
On a more serious note, some sort of 'event generator' or adding goal oriented operations would add interest. However, I think the scripting involved may limit the capabilities of route builders.

 

[Mouse84]

This guy is funny, he comes into a Trainz forum and spews off on something that he knows nothing about. I can run anyone of my routes and sessions and it's the same as the real railroad does. AI trains come to the yard, I take the power off them and send it to the pit. I couple the hump power to it and shove it over the hump. I can then jump on the puller power and pull tracks from the bowl and set them into the departure tracks to build outbound trains. I can then send them out using AI or I can jump on a local and go out and spot and pull the industries, while having to deal with road trains being run by AI. I'm not sure what world you live in, but that is pretty close to the real railroading, that I do for a living. You can't get anywhere near that in MSTS. With the Trainz multiplayer, you don't even need to use AI, the other trains are run by real people. Wow, that's as close to REAL railroading as you can get. Can you do that with your game?

 

[Scottbe8]

Getting back to the sessions thing, sure building your own session will mean you already know the ending. But you are but one person in a vast community of potential players. It's the same with other content creation: once you've finished building it, you know the most of anyone about what it is doing.

 

[BLACKWATCH]

I haven't owned any other railway sim/game other than 'Trainz', I got UTC, liked it so bought 2004 'Passenger Edition', I stuck with
this until it finally gave up the ghost due to a damaged disc, then bought 2010 'Engineers Edition', which I am
just about "getting the hang of", I have found no limitations as to the playability, I have downloaded other peoples routes, set them up
with portals to run AI trains, then expanded the route to incorporate a 'Preservation' railway on a feed, then designed my own timetable
to interact with the AI trains & transfer passengers to the shuttle to feed my preserved railway with customers.

Trainz is so open ended, that there isn't a point where I can see 'Trainz' failing to do anything the imagination is capable of.

It's just a matter of open your mind, use your imagination & get off your butt & DO IT.

 

[Jananton]

Hmm, this is a little like comparing apples and pears. AVSIM stands for aviation simulator(s) and for those this notion probably applies. One of the reasons is, if you really want to fly a plane like it should be done it takes practise, practise, practise, in real life as well as in a realistic flight simulator. So people who want the quick satisfaction of flying heavy iron, a jet fighter, or a stunt aircraft, quickly realise that without studying the theory of flight they crash and burn time after time. In fact this means only diehards and people with a background in aviation will be the ones that take the time and have the endurance to enjoy this kind of simulator over time.

Trainz is very different, if only because there are so many fields that can be explored. There's route building prototypical or fantasy, creating realistic operated sessions, or just fun ones, driving more or less realistic and of course content creation.
Personally I see trainz more or less as the model railroad I don't have room for at home anymore. :hehe:

So one day you're in the mood for driving, another day you descide to finally start creating that building, locomotive, bridge, the list goes on, that you couldn't find elswhere. Some day you see a nice realistic station layout in a railway magazine and poof, drop down a baseboard and see if it works as expected. In other words, if you ask me; trainz, never a dull moment.

Honestly I can't think of any other 'game' that has so many various roads you can follow and where you can expand your experience in any way you like, only restricted by your own imagination.

Greetings from an armchair aviator that's using trainz too,

Jan

 

[Satyr]

G'day everyone,

As a model raileoader ftom way back, I like the versatility Trainz offers. One of the main pleasures I derived from building a layout was building realistic scenery. Trainz lets me do that, with the advantage that you dont have to spend hours lying on your back trying to solder wires together, and having hot solder dripping in your face. Also, you don't have to fork out for new materials every 5 mins. What I mis however is the tactile aspect of building a model railroad, after all, a rail sim doesnt let you touch anything, like when taking a new loco or wagon out of the box and setting to work with a paintbrush ro make it look weatered and used. I know, you can do similar things with paintshed etc. with the permision ftom the original asset builder, unfortunately my eyesight let me down rather badly yo be able to build and alter assets.
Worst thing about Trainz is that it becomes an obsession to the detriment of any social life one might have.
Have a good one
E.C.