Signalling - What am I doing wrong?

[Starr_Man5]

Firstly - I apologise for starting another thread (I'm not sure how it is received doing that here; on other forums it's "bad form"), my earlier thread was answered and I didn't think anyone would pay attention to it any more.
Secondly, this could be quite a long post, so please bare with me, your collective help has been greatly appreciated thus far.

I decided today to "tear up" my first route, this is because after a few test runs I felt that, although it looked lovely and my artistic bent was allowed to shine, it (the route) was far too complex for a beginner and it appeared that I had ambitions WAY above my station.

Anyway, I wanted to start small and just get two passenger trains to "swap stations" in an order in which I had set.
It seemed a simple enough idea and I set about setting up 2 small stations with a passenger train in each (opposite) platform, like so:
The plan is about as basic as it could possibly be, but walk before I can run and all that....

Train 1, Station 1, Platform 1
Train 2, station 2, Platform 1.

I wanted to start "Driver mode" and have the trains carry out their orders automatically, and the image below shows the general idea:




The thing is, I set up a 2-aspect signal in front of each "starting" platform in the hope that if the point changed to "open" so would the signal.
But nothing happened.
I went back to surveyor and removed both signals, went into "Driver mode" and the scenario played out as I had planned.
Train 1 left station 1 and came to a halt in station 2; Train 2 left Station 2 and came to a halt in station 1. Even the points changed automatically; they knew exactly when to change.

No Signals? How? All the signals seem to do for me so far is STOP trains from going anywhere. I thought I would be able to change the light from RED to GREEN but it just stays static, even when I switch the point.
Are points and signals not inter-locking?

I have watched the demonstration session that comes with TRS2004 SP2, where there are lots of trains going through a daily schedule (it does look brilliant to me), signals are changing all over the place and it all works like clockwork. What am I missing?

Again, sorry for the long post, but this is really annoying me now and I have read through the entire manual. The answer is probably staring me in the face again and I just can't see it.
Thank you, in advance.

Rikki

 

[builder300544]

Hi,

Hope I,m not stating a basic you already have is, but you need more than the two signals for this to work. You also require signals on the two 'outward' tracks. Basic rule is that it is always best to have at least three signals on track for them to interact.

Cheers, John

 

[Starr_Man5]

Hi,

Hope I,m not stating a basic you already have is, but you need more than the two signals for this to work. You also require signals on the two 'outward' tracks. Basic rule is that it is always best to have at least three signals on track for them to interact.

Cheers, John

I was not aware of that John, so thanks for that answer.
I have built quite a few model railways in my time, and have always used colour signals. Purely aesthetic, you understand, I just like the look of them but have never known HOW/WHY/WHERE they work!
(I just plop them down where I think they look nicest) :hehe:

 

[titaniclover]

Double Post.
Please delete.

 

[titaniclover]

This might help:
http://trains.0catch.com/tutorial.html

For every junction you usually need three signals.

________.____
________.____\_______.____

Where there is a period a signal is required. This is a just a simple demonstration here showing a single spur. Such as what you have at the stations.

Follow that near you station spurs and you will be set.

Hope all this helps.

Cheers,
Adam

 

[builder300544]

Hi,

Well this is the beauty of trains. Junctions and signals interact with each other. The biggest problem is usually trying to find the right interaction, especially where A1 trains are involved.

A couple of other points. Never put signals on the signal section of track (this totally confuses the A1)
Also the junction (the red/green arrow) should be in front of the actual spline.

Regards, John

 

[Starr_Man5]

Adam - thanks for the link to that tutorial, I'll do some studying of that (I think I need it).

John - I went back there to my "route" (can one so small be called that!?) and placed another signal - "Approach" - in the middle of the straight (one on either side - for both trains) and another - "2 Aspect" - at the END of the receiving platforms.
Went back into "Driver mode" and the first signal (start) changed to green, the train moved off, the "approach" signal (in the middle) changed to orange and the trail pulled into the opposing platform.
This was repeated for train 2, exactly as I had envisaged to begin with, but was unable to do until this moment.

Again, thank you so much for the help guys, I'm such a beginner here and with every corner comes seemingly insurmountable boundaries.
I guess that's what these forums are here for.
I'm learning something new every day.....

 

[rroby]

There is an excellent tutorial on signaling at this site
http://trains.0catch.com/tutorial.html

It should help. I know it's helped me.

 

[Red_Rattler]

Star Man, no offence, but can you please reduce your picture to within the limit size of 800x600, as it is taking time to download, and we can't see it, even in the 1024x768 resolution.

 

[Starr_Man5]

Star Man, no offence, but can you please reduce your picture to within the limit size of 800x600, as it is taking time to download, and we can't see it, even in the 1024x768 resolution.

None taken

I'll get right on it, apologies too; I never realised as it appears instantly on my laptop.

Bare with me....

There Red_Rattler, I hope that is better.

Rikki.

 

[Starr_Man5]

(Probably another lengthy post; apologies, but I like to clarify things!)

I went last night and rebuilt this little route, but I expanded it slightly so that it stretched across 2 "boards". It is basically a very long sweeping curve which crosses a bridge over a main road in the middle.
I wanted to add a little complexity to it, so using the techniques learned in this tutorial that a couple of you linked me to:

http://trains.0catch.com/tutorial.html


I added a passing loop in the middle so both trains could be run at the same time. The only track directional arrows I added are on either side of the passing loop/siding so the trains are forced to avoid each other, and thereby avoid a "Cornfield Meet?".
When I entered driver, it worked perfectly; both trains left their respective stations at the same time; one waited in the passing loop until the line was clear; then they both made it to the opposing station.

The problem is, I wanted then to have the trains reverse this procedure and head back to the station from whence they came.
I added starter signals for them but they (the trains) just sit idle at the station even though the point is switched and the signal is green.
The train is a double-ended passenger train (driving cab on both ends, looks the same backwards as forwards).
Why won't they return?
The return journey for the first train is identical to the first trip made my the second train; same signalling and everything (and vice-versa for the second train).
I have also repeated the driver instructions for the return journey.

Works like this:
2 Passenger trains (PT1 & PT2)
2 Stations (*) (TM3 & TMC)

Instructions:

PT1 : Drive Via Track mark A, Via B, To C (*) Drive via 1, 2, To 3.
PT2 : Drive Via Track mark 1, Via 2, To 3 (*) Drive via A, B, To C.

Instructions are carried out up until (*)



Baffled,
Rikki.

 

[Dermmy]

There are so many things it could be, but my first hunch would be either the signalling at the crossing loop or both drivers are trying to control the same junction somewhere....

 

[Starr_Man5]

There are so many things it could be, but my first hunch would be either the signalling at the crossing loop or both drivers are trying to control the same junction somewhere....

When you put it like that, I guess I'll just have to go and noodle around with the signals and configurations till I get it right.
I assumed (there's a dangerous word) it was something simple like with my previous problems.
Thanks for the reply Dermmy,

Rikki.

 

[Starr_Man5]

Ok people, so I've sorted the above problem out.
The passenger trains are heading to and from each station perfectly, as I had planned.
I have a new problem now with a separate issue.
I have tried countless signal configurations with this but with no luck.




This is the end of a forest track where I have a freight train, on a new part of the route, who has entered the forest to load with wood to take to the lumber mill (or to take lumber to the pulp mill, whatever).
The instruction is to "run around train" here and couple to the other end of the consist to take it on to the Mill. You can see the flat-bed wagons just off in the distance by the forestry.
The train uncouples, drives beyond the switch and then just sits there.
The point refuses to change but the first signal is green.
The train then reverses a little, until the driver realises he is going back the wrong way, then he pulls forward again, goes back a little, pulls forward and, well... you get the idea.
As I've said, I've tried countless signal configurations but to me it feels like a Rubik's Cube and I just can't get it right.

If someone would be so kind as to post a screen shot of the CORRECT signal placement (even going as far as to name the signals used) for this "running around" loop, I would be forever indebted to you.
No need for scenery, train, forestry or anything like that; just a screen shot of the trackwork and signals.
It would only take a minute for someone who knows how to do it!

Please, I'm begging you :'confused:

 

[Dermmy]

Cupla things...

1. 'Run around Train' (or whatever) is temperamental at best. Safer to use a series of 'Drive via Trackmark' commands bracketed by by some variation of 'Uncouple' and 'Couple' commands. Search the DLS for user 'Atilabarut' for some nifty driver commands.

2. If that is the spot where the loco stops it looks to be fouling the junction. If it is sitting in a dead-end is there an end-of-track marker?

3. The red signals appear to be facing the wrong way, try an arrangement like this...

4. The radio icon is lit - the message will be a hint...

Andy

 

[Starr_Man5]

I'm close to giving up now.

Thanks for the detailed reply Andy.
I set up the signalling here as you showed me, but alas, no joy.

So, taking "on board" what you said about running around being temperamental, I set up a series of track marks for the train to follow, and had planned to use "uncouple" and "couple" with drive via/to etc, to get this to work.

The thing is, when I go to set up driver commands now, there is NO OPTION to "uncouple" from train, there is only "couple" (but you can clearly see in this picture that the locomotive already IS coupled to the short consist, so that would be pointless, until it is uncoupled)..




I have checked, and the "uncouple" option isn't un-checked from the "available driver commands" in the options part, so it should be there.
I don't mind problem solving and having fun, but this is just irritating now.
I'm close to just giving up on TRS now, I don't want to but the obstacles it (the game) is putting in my way are forcing me.

 

[Dermmy]

It gets easier, honest

Surveyor > Edit Session Rules > Driver Commands > Add

You probably have a suitable command already, if not there are a zillion driver commands on the DLS. A quick search for 'uncouple' yielded four possibilities...

 

[Starr_Man5]

It gets easier, honest

Surveyor > Edit Session Rules > Driver Commands > Add

You probably have a suitable command already, if not there are a zillion driver commands on the DLS. A quick search for 'uncouple' yielded four possibilities...

Yes, I've calmed down a bit now Andy.
This may seem like a silly question, but I'll ask it anyway...

When I download something from the DLS, how do I install it in the game?
I play Sim City 4 occasionally, and when I download something from their "DLS" equivalent, I just extract it to "Plugins" folder, and lo and behold, it's in the game for me to use.

Is it similar to TRS?
I've yet to download anything for my game, and maybe that's the problem; all the fixes that are available and I'm yet to use them...

 

[Stationbeem]

Which version of TRS2004 are you using. If it is SP2 it would be wise to install SP4. This solved a few problems for me to do with un-coupling. But it does not always solve the problem for everyone.

 

[Starr_Man5]

Which version of TRS2004 are you using. If it is SP2 it would be wise to install SP4. This solved a few problems for me to do with un-coupling. But it does not always solve the problem for everyone.

On the main menu, in the bottom right-hand corner it says:

TRS2004
Trainz Version 2.4 (build 2370)

Whatever that means....