Signalling documentation required

harvan75

New member
In Chuck Brite's most excellent tutorial on Signaling (http://trains.0catch.com/Tut4-IntroToSignaling.htm) he refers to the Signaling Guide which "comes on your TRS CD/DVD and which is copied to your hard drive in your game folder \\docs\manuals_cd\manuals\ directory."He writes that in "Looking through it, you’ll be surprised at the great diversity of signal systems in use around the world. "

Unfortunately, although I have looked through my hard-drive I have been unable to locate the Signalling Guide, and as the Guide appears to have been released with TRS2004 and I have TRS2006 I was wondering if this accounts for the absence.

I really would appreciate having a working copy if someone can tell me where I can one from.

Andrew Harvey
TRS2006
 
In Chuck Brite's most excellent tutorial on Signaling (http://trains.0catch.com/Tut4-IntroToSignaling.htm) he refers to the Signaling Guide which "comes on your TRS CD/DVD and which is copied to your hard drive in your game folder \\docs\manuals_cd\manuals\ directory."He writes that in "Looking through it, you’ll be surprised at the great diversity of signal systems in use around the world. "

Unfortunately, although I have looked through my hard-drive I have been unable to locate the Signalling Guide, and as the Guide appears to have been released with TRS2004 and I have TRS2006 I was wondering if this accounts for the absence.

I really would appreciate having a working copy if someone can tell me where I can one from.

Andrew Harvey
TRS2006

Thew guide should indeed be included with TRS2006 - assuming you have installed properly, you should be able to get to it by clicking the "extras" button on the launcher. Mine's at "E:\Program Files\TRS2006\Docs\manuals_cd\extras" when accessed via explorer, but I modified the default install path to suit my needs.

The file is "NEW SIGNAL TUTORIAL.pdf". I personally found that it didn't deal with anywhere near enough types of signals, or offer much in the way of suggestions on how to place signals effectively.

Cheers,
Craig.
 
Thanks

Thanks people. I'll have a look when I get home from work. It doesn't sound like its going to be very useful though.

Andrew Harvey
 
Signals

I very much doubt if Auran are going to be able to help us, when you consider that they are very much downsized and working on other projects at this time.
However it should not stop us from forming a "loose" commitee and writing it ourselves.
From time to time I have read threads from people in USA, Poland, Sweden, Germany, Great Britain and Australia who have a thorough knowledge of their own Country's signaling systems. We would need to get these people to co-operate for a short time with our rules experts and I am sure we could produce an "Idiots Guide to Railway Signaling"
And I am not trying to be funny here, I believe somehow we need to help people understand how each system works. How to use it in Trainz.
Natvander's signals are magnificent! :) ( I have seen them fully working) But I find they are an absolute pain to install. Despite my being a retired Locomotive Engineer!! But you need to understand the rules used to make the system work.
I believe others share my frustration, as I have yet to find another map where the signals have been used successfully.
Cheers
Rod
 
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Personally I find Nat's signals are excellent.

Only thing I have found wrong is that after setting the signals if you alter the trackwork/points, you may need to reset the turnout signals when the junction number has altered.

Otherwise they work great.

What I would like to see is the same scripting applied to his colour light signals. (hint hint) (are you there nat)

Being a retired driver of 41 years I can offer assistance to others who need some advice on positioning Australian signals and also differences required when setting up AI drivers.

Doing AI drivers being one of my favourite pastimes I have learnt a few things by now.

Dennis
 
...to the contrary...

:cool: Open TRS, as you would, to start the sim.

On the Menu, select Trainz Manuals. You will get a page that looks like the website. Scroll to see the Signaling Guide. Click, and a .pdf file will open, to the title page, TRSxxxx Signaling Guide.

This guide, gives not only the placement of signals, it also tells you how the AI Driver will interpret the signal indication...

First, you have to do your homework, studying actual employee timetables to orient you with signal rules.

Then, study the Trainz Signaling Guide, to memorize the signals to use, and how you place them.

A lot may be expected, to work right along with what you wish, and more.

However, this is a train simulator, and must be set up, according to actual practices of real railroads. That is a craft-trade, that has to be studied, and practiced, and yes, you will make mistakes.

The results may be silly at-times, however the job can get done, and no one will be hurt.

Many times, real railroads use methods, such as verbal track warrants, that help where signaling would be redundant, and sometimes not used a-toll.

Where you have created, or re-created a signaling-dispatcher nightmare, you may have to issue the command Stop Train, and drive through that block.

To help in this case, remember, the guide suggests, in so many ways and words, that you need to:

1)Place junctions correctly.
2)Place switch levers correctly.
3)Place the signals correctly.
4)Protect all junctions. That means adding the best signal, that can be placed at that point, to direct movement.

If you run long routes one or two signals between junctions can help long trains run more efficiently.

Since you have an unlimited budget, and signals add a colorful and dynamically interactive feature to you route, this added control, gives more of a sense of accomplishment.

Also Important:

When you place locomotive(s) on a route, select the properties radio button on your Train-cars Panel. Click on the item, and select a priority. This will be copied to other units in your consist.

You have a list of Drivers. It's not alphabetical, but the order should be observed, and custom Drivers, are added first. In the real world, that list is made according to seniority.

Remember that the arrows above the train-cars indicate direction priority. Real railroads move several trains in the same direction as "fleets."

Anytime you have conflicting movements monitor their actions, and dispatch accordingly.

Don't blame the Trainz Drivers, for mistakes in judgment that you made. If everything falls apart, just keep going and try to direct the movements in the best practical way. Every decision you make, and action you take, will train you further to your goal of making everything run smoothly and prototypically.

The ClinchTRS route, on the DLS, is one of the great routes to practice on, and it can be as complicated as you want to make it. It's also large enough to allow trains to pass, with time to watch several trains and make changes, before things get serious.
 
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...to the contrary...

:cool: Open TRS, as you would, to start the sim.

On the Menu, select Trainz Manuals. You will get a page that looks like the website. Scroll to see the signal guide. Click, and a .pdf file will open, to the title page, Signaling Guide.

This guide, gives not only the placement of signals, it also tells you how the AI Driver will interpret the signal indication...

First, you have to do your homework, studying actual employee timetables for the operations you desire to mod.

Then, study the Trainz Signaling Guide, to memorize the signals to use, and how you place them.

A lot may be expected, to work right along with what you wish, and more.

However, this is a train simulator, and must be set up, according to actual practices of real railroads. That is a craft-trade, that has to be studied, and practiced, and yes, you will make mistakes.

The results may be silly at-times, however the job can get done, and no one will be hurt.

Many times, real railroads use methods, such as verbal track warrants, that help where signaling would be redundant, and sometimes not used a-toll.

Where you have created, or re-created a signaling-dispatcher nightmare, you may have to issue the command Stop Train, and drive through that block.

To help in this case, remember, the guide suggests, in so many ways and words, that you need to:

1)Place junctions correctly.
2)Place switch levers correctly.
3)Place the signals correctly.
4)Protect all junctions. That means adding the best signal, that can be placed at that point, to direct movement.

Since you have an unlimited budget, and signals add a colorful and dynamically interactive feature to you route, this added control, gives more of a sense of accomplishment.

Also Important:

When you place locomotive(s) on a route, select the properties radio button on your Train-cars Panel. Click on the item, and select a priority. This will be copied to other units in your consist.

Remember that the arrows above the train-cars indicate direction priority. Real railroads move several trains in the same direction as "fleets."

Anytime you have conflicting movements monitor their actions, and dispatch accordingly.

Don't blame the Trainz Drivers, for mistakes in judgment that you made. If everything falls apart, just keep going and try to direct the movements in the best practical way. Every decision you make, and action you take, will train you further to your goal of making everything run smoothly and prototypically.

Finally, remember that whilst real railroads now run trains with so much modern technology, right now, tens of thousands of trains still require millions of Humans to get them to their destination!
 
The document you are looking for is called Signaling_Guide.pdf and the title page of the document says "Trainz Railroad Simulator 2004 Signalling Guide". This document, or its equivalent is not to be found in the TRS2006 distribution. This is unfortunate because it is a very useful document. I found it while exhaustively clicking around Auran's website. But now I cannot find it despite searching hard for it.

This document is NOT the same as the "NSW SIGNAL TUTORIAL.pdf" under C:\Program Files\Auran\TRS2006\Docs\manuals_cd\extras. That document is almost useless for US signalling.

However the salient points of the document in question, for US signalling, have been recently put online here:
http://woodbrdge.tripod.com/tsc/

enjoy
 
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Thanks Azathoth92

I was just about to come back with that information. NO Signalling guide on my distro! Does anyone have a spare copy of the pdf file they could lend me?

Andrew
 
The document you are looking for is called Signaling_Guide.pdf and the title page of the document says "Trainz Railroad Simulator 2004 Signalling Guide". This document, or its equivalent is not to be found in the TRS2006 distribution. This is unfortunate because it is a very useful document. I found it while exhaustively clicking around Auran's website. But now I cannot find it despite searching hard for it.

This document is NOT the same as the "NSW SIGNAL TUTORIAL.pdf" under C:\Program Files\Auran\TRS2006\Docs\manuals_cd\extras. That document is almost useless for US signalling.

However the salient points of the document in question, for US signalling, have been recently put online here:
http://woodbrdge.tripod.com/tsc/

enjoy

Hmm... guess I'll have to install TRS2004 soon... just got to try to organize ~300gb of stuff so's I can install 2004 and 2006 on my 160GB sata.
 
One thing to keep in mind when dealing with signals, when they say correct signaling, we have to remember that correct should refer to Trainz and not prototype practice.

As the CCG (v1.04) says on page 89, "there are also various departures from prototypical operation which should be considered when designing new signaling."

There are only 10 basic aspects that are used in Trainz, see page 88, so no matter what the signal looks like, they only have a fixed number of possible behaviours. Thus, placing them exactly as a prototype route has them might look right but they will still only work the Trainz way.

I tend to use a combination of simplified signals, direction markers and drive-to-markers to keep the AI moving where I want them to go.
 
...good site...

:cool: Yes, since we use AI control, you must make use of other options.

There are rules for drivers on the DLS, etc.

Here is the article from Train Simulation Craftsman. It has the Signaling Guide practically verbatim. Save a copy to your Desktop.

Norfolk Southern Railroad(USA), Only has ten signals!
 
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One thing to keep in mind when dealing with signals, when they say correct signaling, we have to remember that correct should refer to Trainz and not prototype practice.

As the CCG (v1.04) says on page 89, "there are also various departures from prototypical operation which should be considered when designing new signaling."

There are only 10 basic aspects that are used in Trainz, see page 88, so no matter what the signal looks like, they only have a fixed number of possible behaviours. Thus, placing them exactly as a prototype route has them might look right but they will still only work the Trainz way.

I tend to use a combination of simplified signals, direction markers and drive-to-markers to keep the AI moving where I want them to go.


Yes, I agree here all the signals that I have released are using these 10 basic aspects, I define each and it's usage. You can, and can work around these, but the 10 aspects are still being used.

Damon (The Rocker)
:cool:
 
I've been to the Train Simulation Craftsman website and can not find the Signal manual that has been discussed in this thread. Do anyone know where to find a copy these days?

Dap
 
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