Shimmering scenery

J

JerseySeven

New member
Understandably, this is still beta, and overall I like the new graphics very much, but, goodness, the shimmering is distracting. I'm at 2560x1440 with 4x antialiasing in the Trainz settings, everything ultra, with 16x anisotropic filtering and an additional 4x AA + 4x supersample in my nvidia control panel and I can't stop the scenery from shimmering. I've tried both clamping and allowing negative bias and nothing helps.

Overall, great job, so don't take this negatively, just a comment for consideration.
 
I have the same disappointment . . . . and I have a high grade machine with GTX1080ti . . . i7 cpu at 4.2Ghz . . . 64gb ram and SSD throughout . . . . . . the watch quality is very poor in every TRS2019 route including Kickstarter 2 and Sample Content . . I suspect I am missing some setting . . .any clues?
 
This is all to do with the lighting settings which has been the subject of several threads already. The defaults are way off and need savage adjustment in the environment settings. The "official" response from N3V seems to be they can't cater for how every route created in previous versions looks in TRS2019 and do not intend to tone down the defaults. However I would once again urge them to rethink the policy - the fact new threads keep cropping up on this subject indicate it is more than a casual factor and really needs a bit of programming TLC before release.
 
I am totally in sync with you on that . . it just does not make sense that we have to adjust default light settings for every route . . . . bordering on unacceptable . . but at least unreasonable.
 
Vern - Beg to differ - The shimmering and moire effects don't have a great deal to do with the 'lighting settings' at all - it is more to do with GPU settings for anti-aliasing and certain post processing effects such as FXAA and SSAO etc.
The more powerful your GPU, the more prone this sim seems to be to 'jaggies', large-scale interference patterns and similar graphics rendering artifacts.
I have my AA set to 8X (the maximum allowed in TRS2019) and still see these issues.
Maybe when we all have 2000-series cards sporting AI enhanced DLSS and the like, this problem will go away...
 
render2017 said:
. . it just does not make sense that we have to adjust default light settings for every route . . . . bordering on unacceptable . . but at least unreasonable.
Click to expand...

Why does that not make sense? Every route is different. I would expect that the lighting conditions in the Australian Outback would be very different to those in the Canadian Rockies.

A route can have a session set in high summer and another session set in the depths of winter, would you expect the lighting to be the same for both?

Once you have set the Environmental conditions to the values that you want for a particular region and season, then use those same values for all routes and sessions in that region and season.

What is missing, and has been requested (the official response is that it will (TM) eventually come), is the ability to save your session environmental settings.
 
pware said:
Why does that not make sense? Every route is different. I would expect that the lighting conditions in the Australian Outback would be very different to those in the Canadian Rockies.

A route can have a session set in high summer and another session set in the depths of winter, would you expect the lighting to be the same for both?

Once you have set the Environmental conditions to the values that you want for a particular region and season, then use those same values for all routes and sessions in that region and season.

What is missing, and has been requested (the official response is that it will (TM) eventually come), is the ability to save your session environmental settings.
Click to expand...

Why does it not make sense?


What's wrong with the creator of the route who sells it, setting some defaults? How about if it's an Australian Route, the creator who's going to charge $$$ for it sets some default Australian lighting? How about if it's a Canadian Rockies Route, the creator who's going to charge $$$ for it sets some default Canadian Rockies lighting?

Coming with real world defaults should not be difficult and certainly isn't asking too much.
 
While I can see both sides of this argument . . If i buy a game . . or a movie . . I don't expect to have to adjust my monitor for each and every different game/movie. Why should TRS2019 be any different ?
I certainly don't want to have to fiddle every route I might access. Sorry but that does not make sense to me.
 
PC_Ace said:
The shimmering and moire effects don't have a great deal to do with the 'lighting settings' at all - it is more to do with GPU settings for anti-aliasing and certain post processing effects such as FXAA and SSAO etc.
The more powerful your GPU, the more prone this sim seems to be to 'jaggies', large-scale interference patterns and similar graphics rendering artifacts.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what effects you're referring to, but can you try a few things for me and let me know if it resolves the problem:

1. Enable developer settings in the Launcher. Restart the game. Open up a session which exhibits the problem. Use the launcher's Post-Processing options to disable Bloom. Does the problem go away?

2. Set post-processing to Low. Does the problem go away?

3. In the settings, set Material Quality to Standard instead of Ultra. Does the problem go away?

thanks,

chris
 
brucem56 said:
What's wrong with the creator of the route who sells it, setting some defaults?
Click to expand...

But that is exactly what I am currently doing with an old TRS2006 route I am converting to TRS19. I have set the lighting conditions (which were terrible in the original TRS2006 version) to what I want in the TRS19 version (far, far better) and they are saved with the session. When I load that route and session into TRS19 on another computer exactly the same set lighting conditions are copied across. Baring any differences between the monitors and GPU cards - the subject of another thread - there is no need for any further user adjustment.

I set the lighting conditions to what I want for every session and those settings are loaded when the session is loaded into TRS19 on any other computer.
 
WindWalkr - I always have developer settings enabled and typically set post-processing to 'Manual' so that I can disable distortions such as Bloom, SSAO and Depth of Field (Blur foreground) etc.
The Low setting is usually tolerable, except for when I need to see distant consists and scenery displayed sharply.
Unfortunately, recent changes to LOD culling and transition settings applied for many assets has resulted in many consists and other scenery objects disappearing way too soon in TRS2019 (compared to the same objects in T:ANE sessions and with Draw Distance set to 15,000m) so fiddling with the PP settings doesn't always help as much as it did in the past.
Haven't played much with Material Quality settings - I've always had these on 'Ultra'. Will experiment.
Now beginning to suspect that some of these shimmering effects being discussed above might have something to do with parallax and perceived motion of PBR materials as seen in Driver mode camera views and less to do with AA and moirés as JCitron and I surmised in our posts above...
 
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I think the point that's being missed here is that no other version of Trainz has had this lighting issue bringing in routes from a previous version. They just worked sufficient as is, or could be tweaked if required. Given until there are TRS2019 native routes circulating on the DLS, 99.9% of what people are going to be running will be from TANE and previous. IMHO it is beholden on N3V to at least try and make the default such that the lighting is acceptable and not covered with a glossy silvery sheen, or blame anything but the code changes which, yes, will eventually lend themselves to more realistic environments but for legacy routes are proving to be a complete nuisance.

Also raises the spectre again if TRS2019 is so advanced and different to previous versions, why did they bother with backward compatibility?
 
I don't thank it has anything to do with either if your talking about the textures, I thank someone here said it had something to do with the new PBR textures that they do weird things if that's what your talking about. If its not then I'm not sure.
 
"Lighting issue with bringing in a new route" shouldn't be a factor. I was referring to one of routes newly created for this version - the first and second tutorials as a matter of fact. It's not an antialiasing issue - the small amount of jaggies are almost unnoticeable. Its as if there were no anisotropic filtering implemented in the game. Anytime there is movement, either the driver view, or say the grass is waving in the wind, there is shimmering.

If TRS 2019 supported the addition of Reshade/SweetFX, it might be possible to eliminate or reduce the shimmering effect. I was never able to get Reshade to work with T:ANE SP3 so I haven't tried it with TRS 2019.
 
I posted regarding the moire issue a while back, too. Track ties (sleepers) seem especially bad also shadows. I have the Nvidia Inspector but can't find a profile for TRS2019. There is one for T:ANE, I think. Is it possible to make a profile with the Inspector so we wouldn't have to affect our whole system?
Best,
smyers
 
Thanks for the clarification, JerseySeven - that certainly helps to focus our discussions on the main issue (visual quality during onscreen motion) involved here.
For this purpose, we've eliminated lighting and atmospherics settings - and put the focus on graphics quality and behaviour in new routes and sessions in TRS2019 and not earlier Trainz versions.
 
WindWalkr said:
I'm not really sure what effects you're referring to, but can you try a few things for me and let me know if it resolves the problem:

1. Enable developer settings in the Launcher. Restart the game. Open up a session which exhibits the problem. Use the launcher's Post-Processing options to disable Bloom. Does the problem go away?

2. Set post-processing to Low. Does the problem go away?

3. In the settings, set Material Quality to Standard instead of Ultra. Does the problem go away?

thanks,

chris
Click to expand...

Hi chris,

Not to ignore your suggestions:

1. I don't have a bloom setting in my version.
2. Post processing low doesn't help
3. Shader quality ( I don't have a material quality setting) to standard doesn't help the shimmering - but maybe gives a 5 fps increase.

Changing main shadow resolution from 4096 to 2048 does seem to lessen the shimmering. Encouraged, I set shadow quality from high to low. Didn't help the shimmering but did give me an extra 10-15 fps (i.e. avg 45 fps to 60+) even with shader quality at ultra, with little noticeable change in graphics quality. I've seen this in other games as well, where shadow quality just eats fps with little to no gain in quality.
 
Well, given that the full retail release is out, the problem still persists for me.
The Moire effect on the track is intolerable.
I've tried all sorts of settings to get rid of it.
Then I tried standard TANE track next to TRS19 PBR track... no Moire.
I am also getting more and more frustrated with PBR ground textures, unwanted shadows, visual distortion etc.
So for me at the moment PBR is out of favour.
But I do like TFX and ClutterFX :)

Moire-Effect.jpg
 
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