Setting Aside TS2012 - Stutters and Pausing

[boleyd]

Whine, complain, groan, negativity- None of these apply

Because of the stutters and pauses there is no longer any enjoyment in using the TS2012 product. I am sure that none of the computers at N3V have this problem as shown by no admission of its existence from the vendor. Therefore, there is almost no chance of the issue being addressed. There are competitive products available that also offer a vague simulation of a railroad operation. I have found a renewed interest in one of those. Should N3V decide to address, and solve the issue, I will try the N3V product again.

 

[shaneturner12]

In my opinion, it's impossible for N3V to please everyone all of the time.

Most of the time, the stuttering/pausing is not actually caused by Trainz, it's actually caused by slow (and quite often old) hardware that cannot keep up with what Trainz needs.

Sometimes, the stuttering etc are caused by scripts that are not created by N3V, and as such they cannot do a lot about it.

Shane

 

[philskene]

Shane --

"Most of the time, the stuttering/pausing is not actually caused by Trainz, it's actually caused by slow (and quite often old) hardware that cannot keep up with what Trainz needs."

Maybe, maybe not.

What I do know for certain is that on my PC:
TS12 + Patch + hotfixes has seizures whereas TS12 dos not.
TS12 + Patch + hotfixes has pop-ups when panning whereas TS12 does not.

Combine that with the more rigorous error checking that makes some content a no-show. In my view TS12 Patched shows no improvement over the vanilla TS12. In many cases for me it's worse.

So Dick --

Do what I do. Run TS12 without the SP.

Phil

 

[shaneturner12]

There's another possibility where SP1 is concerned - increased content sizes and very high poly assets.

Shane

 

[boleyd]

I have FPS of 40 to 60 in the entire route with all sliders max'd. I have tried endless nVidia and in GAME options to no avail.
There is no correlation to FPS and the anomaly.
One generation back on video drivers (GTX 550 1gb). Another train program is very smooth. Two flight simulators are smooth.

Is there a clean process for stepping back beyond the SP1 "adjustments"? If it is a reinstall I'll just allow the program
to rest in peace.

 

[shaneturner12]

Any 'stepping back' would involve a reinstall as it would involve removing SP1.

Shane

 

[2995Valliant]

I would say that's unlikely in my case Shane - performance is noticeably worse for me in terms of stuttering on my WIP payware route where I know the assets have not been altered as they under my control. The route ran smoothly on several systems and was close to release prior to SP1 and now stutters where it does not on an unpatched TS12 install on the same machines.

I have an unsubstantiated theory that the stutter may be caused by the much improved lighting model implemented on speedtrees in SP1 - this has to have a performance hit. Fortunately on my own system it is not so bad as to make the game unusable for me in that respect.

Anthony

 

[Robert2d6]

Shane --

"Most of the time, the stuttering/pausing is not actually caused by Trainz, it's actually caused by slow (and quite often old) hardware that cannot keep up with what Trainz needs."

Maybe, maybe not.

What I do know for certain is that on my PC:
TS12 + Patch + hotfixes has seizures whereas TS12 dos not.
TS12 + Patch + hotfixes has pop-ups when panning whereas TS12 does not.

Combine that with the more rigorous error checking that makes some content a no-show. In my view TS12 Patched shows no improvement over the vanilla TS12. In many cases for me it's worse.

So Dick --

Do what I do. Run TS12 without the SP.

Phil

That is why I avoided installing SP1 and all the attempted SP1 fixes as soon as I read the problems it produced. Guess what, on my middle of the road system, no stutters or popups with 49922. I am so sick of reading all the attempts to make this patch work, anti-virus off, separate harddrive, duplicate TS12 installs, new computer, blah blah blah...... Like putting a band aid on a shotgun wound.

At this point, it appears to me ( having worked with software since the late 80's), that this is a "Tiger by the ears" situation. N3V can't admit that the patch caused too many problems, because so many have installed it, what they would have is 2 TS 12's, one patched , and one unpatched. Talk about a totally confusing situation for everyone. I bet there are a large number of TS12 users, like myself, that are now just waiting for TS14 to come out, and then donate TS12 to the Recycle Bin. Frankly I think that there was some issues with TS12 prior to SP1, but I don't think SP1 added much if anything, except problems. Keep fixing it till it breaks seems to be the goal...

 

[Paul_Bert]

In my opinion, it's impossible for N3V to please everyone all of the time.

Most of the time, the stuttering/pausing is not actually caused by Trainz, it's actually caused by slow (and quite often old) hardware that cannot keep up with what Trainz needs.

Sometimes, the stuttering etc are caused by scripts that are not created by N3V, and as such they cannot do a lot about it.

Shane

Its not an issue of pleasing everyone at the same time. It's a case of where SP1 and it hot fixes have made the game worse for many of us. Frame rates are lower, stuttering is bad, and 'non-responding' is still an issue at times. Comparing same routes/sessions on the same computer using TS12 (49922) versus SP1 with hot fixes. Add to all of this the hassle of broken assets unless you spend many hours repairing them and you end up with a "upgrade" which for me is a "downgrade".

For me the supposed "improvements" for SP1 don't come anywhere close to justifying the performance deteriation compared to build 49922.

Long live build 49922.

 

[bendorsey]

Just out of curiosity - why would you think TS14 if and when it comes out would be any better? Wouldn't it automatically have everything in TS12 including all the pre SP1 and post SP1 hotfixes built in? The same problems in a new package and being a new package potentially with additional problems of its own. A definite potential "here we go again" scenario.

Ben

 

[boleyd]

I stripped out almost all the speedtree grass, shrubs and trees. Did not help. I would agree that large assets may contribute. My theory (I worked on Univac-I computers) is that the larger sized, and much better quality, assets have an effect but only in a particular manner. The buffering/queuing scheme in the vendor's software may have issues. These cause it to empty its buffers before the next block of data arrives from the disk. Therefore, the display/video card quickly empties its high speed buffers while waiting for Trainz to load its buffers to feed the video card. While crummy design of the buffering scheme (too many changes over the many years) may be a cause it may also be due to someone, who is not well schooled in computers who thought they could fix the mild stuttering. Instead incompetence caused a poor situation to reach intolerable levels. This may explain why some with SSD disks see very little stuttering and that may be quite short, with no pausing.

Spending hours trying to fix something that is possibly unfixable, at the customer level, only serves to frustrate paying customers and eventually alienate them. However, the new target customer profile by N3V does not intend to service issues that are not universal and have not raised the ire of the new gaming customers. The DLC revenues have increased with little customer support being necessary. We see only the low level personnel who are dedicated to the product. Behind the scenes they may be labeled a pain in the bottom as N3V shifts even more toward marketing and away from low revenue technical products. AKA the RailWorks model.

 

[RRSignal]

Who's complaining now about "N3V's commercial practices"? LMAO.

 

[pdkoester]

I don't know what you guys are all complaining about, it is fine, silky smooth like butter, runs great...

 

[GeorgeCW]

Wonder what it would take to get a nice usable version that a none programmer can use, or am I dreaming?

 

[clam1952]

Got there tonight, no stutter good frame rates but................... Track vanished followed by all the SpeedTrees whereupon the track reappeared, back end of a Garratt and 9 Coaches vanished, 3/4's of the Garratt decided to do it's own thing and ignore the instructions and signals, found the coaches left in the middle of nowhere, no sign of the rear part of the Garratt though, posted about this in the bugs thread with some more info. Was running 6 AI trains at the time.

Didn't do any of this yesterday and am just running another test and it's behaving this time. Ooops! spoke to soon just noticed a missing road......

 

[tomurban]

Wonder what it would take to get a nice usable version that a none programmer can use, or am I dreaming?

I think we had that with ver 49922

 

[JCitron]

I can't say that's the hardware either and unable to please anyone, Shane. See the post from Highballer on the pausing.

I too have the same problem. In some cases it's almost ridiculous and frustrating as I edit and move about in Surveyor. It's not just the menu swapping either, which was a problem before this is everything now. Something is terribly different that needs fixing. An acknowledgement by the company that the problem exists is a good step to go, but until that happens we're stuck as far users are concerned. Sadly, I like many people, have already made substantial changes to my routes and content, so going back is not an easy task.

John

 

[Lots_Trains]

Do you guys know that TS2010 works really well, and it hasn't got padlocks over junctions.

Cheers

Lots

 

[gremlin1812]

I got so cheesed off with TS12 SP1++ that I fired up my older PC which has just had WIN7 added clean loaded TRS06 plus all the addons I had like razorback and murchison etc and am having the time of my life with it, have not fired up TS12 for nearly a week now.
A bit off topic but was looking the method for putting TC3 into TRS06.
Regards
Barrie

 

[boleyd]

Well I downloaded all the TS12 files. Doing setup now.

Which update level/number should I stop at? New load starts at 46857.