Seasonal textures on buildings...worthwhile?

[Euphod]

Yes, I know I posted essentially the same question in Content Creators, but call me impatient! It has been suggested to ask the question here, where routes builders may give more feed back.

Is the application of seasonal textures to buildings something route builders would like, even though it essentially doubles the size of the file for downloading and storage?

Is there any reason to apply seasonal textures other than summer and snow to buildings? Do Autumn buildings look much different then summer buildings? Same question applies to winter buildings?

If the same building were released in summer, and separately in snow textures, would you just end up downloading both of them?

Please, I look forward to as much input as possible.

 

[Pladroid]

Yes Ed anything that uses seasonal assets will always appeal, because if routes and sessions are made seasonal it saves having a summer and separate winter R/S cluttering up the display in the routes window.

It doesn't really matter if asset file sizes are bigger because most gamers have huge hard drives.

 

[airtime]

I would like to see the buildings and ground textures with seasonal functionality...

The grass would be green throughout the spring and summer, in the Fall or the Autumn, it goes green and brown, like the leaves have fallen off the trees, and in the winter it goes thick clean white.

I would have the same with the houses or buildings, in the summer the rooftops look clean, in the fall or the Autumn, they look dirty and dull, and in the Winter they are loaded with snow.

I know this may be somewhat of a challenge ed, and I do wish you the very best of luck if you do attempt any of the above, but the above is just an idea, not a must do demand.

Many thanks

Joe Airtime

 

[2995Valliant]

I'd definitely like to see seasonal buildings - I think you'd only need summer and snow.

I've already modified a number of separate assets where they existed (such as some of Tafweb's) in both summer and snowy form to function in this way for my own use.

The issue in the UK is that we need two versions of winter, as more often then not there's no snow. This looks doable by messing about with the season selector tags and values to give an extra "season" with a different result in December compared to January, but I haven't got round to proving it yet.

Regards,

Anthony

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi Anthony

Been said a few times, but I'll drop it here. Do NOT use 'winter' for 'snowy' buildings. As you've stated, winter doesn't mean snow. Same as summer in some locations can have snow

Instead, make the 'snow' mesh the 'snow' mesh, using the seasonal system. This means that, if the asset is above the snow line (configurable in the 'environmental settings' for sessions), then the 'snow' mesh is shown'. If below the snow line, then the appropriate 'season' is shown.

As to buildings. A basic building can get away with 'standard' and 'snow' versions, since the building shouldn't change too much.

However, if someone were game, they could make it a little more complicated by having

'summer' (dry/'dusty' paint, maybe some dead leaves in gutters, etc)

autumn (lots of dead leaves, dusty paint, possible with some 'streaks' from very light rain)

winter (cleaner gutters, cleaner paint, slightly more 'glossy' paint)

spring (glossy paint, possibly slightly dusty as well, maybe a few flowers in gutters that have fallen off trees, maybe a birds nest in a gutter?).

This really isn't needed on every building, but some buildings (such as those to be close to the tracks, or buildings that may be more noticeable) could be quite effective with this.

 

[nfitzsimmons]

The only problem I have is that I'm using 2009, and have to edit out the multi-season settings in the config file.

 

[Euphod]

It doesn't really matter if asset file sizes are bigger because most gamers have huge hard drives.

It might be less cumbersome though to just release a summer and snow version.

I would like to see the buildings and ground textures with seasonal functionality...

The grass would be green throughout the spring and summer, in the Fall or the Autumn, it goes green and brown, like the leaves have fallen off the trees, and in the winter it goes thick clean white.

I would have the same with the houses or buildings, in the summer the rooftops look clean, in the fall or the Autumn, they look dirty and dull, and in the Winter they are loaded with snow.

I agree with the ground textures and foliage, but the buildings seem like overkill to me. Again, file sizes double with each addition, so a building that starts with 5Mb ends up being 20Mb with three seasons and snow added.

I'd definitely like to see seasonal buildings - I think you'd only need summer and snow.

I'm more in your camp right now, if at all.

Instead, make the 'snow' mesh the 'snow' mesh, using the seasonal system. This means that, if the asset is above the snow line (configurable in the 'environmental settings' for sessions), then the 'snow' mesh is shown'. If below the snow line, then the appropriate 'season' is shown.

As to buildings. A basic building can get away with 'standard' and 'snow' versions, since the building shouldn't change too much.

However, if someone were game, they could make it a little more complicated by having

'summer' (dry/'dusty' paint, maybe some dead leaves in gutters, etc)

autumn (lots of dead leaves, dusty paint, possible with some 'streaks' from very light rain)

winter (cleaner gutters, cleaner paint, slightly more 'glossy' paint)

spring (glossy paint, possibly slightly dusty as well, maybe a few flowers in gutters that have fallen off trees, maybe a birds nest in a gutter?).

This really isn't needed on every building, but some buildings (such as those to be close to the tracks, or buildings that may be more noticeable) could be quite effective with this.

You had me then you lost me! I agree that summer and snow are the most important, but the other seasons, even if close to the track seem excessive to me. Yeah, it would be great to have such detail, but at resolutions large enough to make out leaves in the gutters and a bird's nest would make for some pretty large texture files indeed! Then add in the full seasonal rotation, and the file becomes larger yet. What's to be gained? I thought of seasonal decorations on houses, for instance, but then you run into the problem of different nations celebrating different holidays, and how many versions should be made? Is Autumn in AUS the same as Autumn in the US? What about the UK?
I'm leaning toward summer and snow right now... or none at all.

The only problem I have is that I'm using 2009, and have to edit out the multi-season settings in the config file.

Good point! And I'll add the concern that someone else brought up about not being able to download large files easily.

I sincerely thank you all for your input, I would like more from others and I have not yet made a decision. Right now I'm leaning toward separate content in summer and snow each, or the seasonal textures with only summer and snow. The former may be better for those that have 2009, and the latter will please those that have the later versions, but it seems you can please all the people all the time. I would like to consider as many options as possible though, to please as many as I can.

 

[boleyd]

Summer & winter only. Roofs are not always fully covered in snow. In fact in the Western Pennsylvania most days show no snow. I suggest a compromise where a roof is 3/4 snow covered.

 

[Euphod]

Summer & winter only. Roofs are not always fully covered in snow. In fact in the Western Pennsylvania most days show no snow. I suggest a compromise where a roof is 3/4 snow covered.

Thanks for weighing in. The one asset I've made with summer and snow textures had a dusting of snow on the roof, areas of melt around the roof vents, icicles around the edge of the roof, and a whiter snow drift in one area of the roof. It is the last item I uploaded if you're interested.

 

[leeferr]

Ed, you've posed an interesting question and problem. Personally, I don't deal with snow scenes, so it wouldn't be of much use to me, but I'm not the one to go by on that. I think that you're headed in the right direction in going with a summer and snow version; however, I would like to see a version uploaded as just a summer version and then if it's not too much trouble, then another version could be uploaded that has the seasonal changes for those that want that option.

The snow line option is an interesting concept and I wasn't aware that Trainz had that option, but in the areas of the US that I model, there really isn't a snow line so to speak. There's very few areas that I like to model that would have a winter snow line, so it wouldn't be of much use to me, but it very well may be to others.

If someone uses the snow line environment, doesnt' that mean that all objects, trees, and textures used above the snow line have to be set up for it also. I assume so and with that said, when I download an asset, how do I know that particular asset has the snow line capability without downloading and then taking a look at the config.txt file? That may be a dumb question, but I'm rather inexperienced at the seasonal capabilities of Trainz? What version of Trainz started this capability?

Mike

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi Ed
My apologies, was just random thoughts that I thought I would drop in to get everyone thinking

Actually, the one location that the 'high detail' could look good is on a station building, or other railway buildings.

Back to the 'no snow'/'snow' versions. This should work quite well, and would be very welcome (I've been meaning to update some of my objects to have some snow on them, although for Aus this will normally be fairly light!).

It should be noted that they need a build number of 3.3 (TS2009 SP4/TS2010) or higher, otherwise they could cause problems, particularly if downloaded into TS2009 pre SP4.

As earlier, size should only be an issue when actually downloading (or changing between snow and no snow).

For those creating new buildings, try putting both versions onto the one texture (e.g. no snow on the left, snow on the right), which will reduce load on the scene (especially if you are on the 'edge' of the snow line, with only some buildings having snow, since both will be visible). Unfortunately, not possible with reskins without access to the textures.

HTH

 

[Euphod]

Hi Zec, no apologies needed. I'm more or less thinking out loud in this thread anyway.

I notice a problem with the current seasonal textures implementation, and I would like your thoughts.

The snow texture works well for locations set above the snow line as configurable in Surveyor but it fails for sessions set in other seasons. I understand the concept of a snow line, but I also understand we have been encouraged not to associate winter with snow in reference to textures. Problem is that leaves no way to display the snow textures except above the snow line.

For example, the Chicago area receives snow every winter. If you do not use a snow texture for winter then what's the point? If you adjust the snow line to say "0", then even in the summer the buildings will display snow. So, you may say, the buildings should be made for use in a specific area of the country, and where it typically snows in winter, the winter texture should display snow, regardless of the snow line setting. I know the ground textures should display snow, and the foliage, but limiting it to above the snow line causes the above conflict.

I just set a session for July 4th, and because my snow line was set at "0", the buildings displayed snow.

It seems like the goal here is to allow one route to be made that will display seasonal textures, so it will be appropriate for all seasons. That's a great goal, but having the assets be geographically specific limits their use. If I make a route with mountains and a snow line, and then winter textures of snowy buildings, they will look ridiculous if someone uses them on a desert route, and runs a session in November.

So in essence, the work and replication avoided by seasonal textures is replaced by the work and replication of having to make assets that are geographically specific. It seems like a wash to me.

It's a shame, because I understand the goal and the functionality, but it almost makes more sense to make separate assets for use in different situations, ie: Summer/Spring/Fall/Winter and then Snow.

Am I missing something?

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi Ed
The snow line is configurable within the session, and as such allows the user to select if they want snow at a given time.

The idea being that Session A has the snow line at say, 1000m (meaning snow above the 1000m mark). Session B on the other hand has the snow line at, say, 50m (meaning snow above the 50m mark). And so on.

This is to allow the user to select if they want snow with a particular month (e.g. if your building can fit into a town in Australia, which it very well could, winter does not mean snow). Hence, the user would select an appropriate height for the snow line to have no snow.

Some locations may have snow all year around, or for much of the year. In this case, the snow line gets set accordingly.

As has been explained. Snow and Winter are NOT the same. Many locations do seem like this, but the first day of winter doesn't necessarily mean snow.

Same as, in Melbourne, the first day of summer (today) is a rather dull, cold, overcast day (actually, we've had a few 'white christmas' days over the last few years! And we don't even normally get that in Winter!). So, summer can happily have snow if desired, hence a low snowline is desirable.

Having the winter model have snow sounds nice, but it makes the asset completely unusable outside of a very specific geographic region, when it may actually look good in other regions. The snowline system allows you to select this

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi All
Just a note on this... Have been speaking with a few people on the Trainz team, and I need to put this in.

Ground textures are currently limited to either being 'all snow' or 'no snow' on a map (no transition). As such, you can't currently have half a mountain covered in snow.

To set an entire layout to have snow, set the snow level to -100. This will ensure that all ground textures, and all scenery, are snowy.

This still gives the user the option of snowy or not, just not over part of a route.

 

[Euphod]

Thanks Zec, it makes more sense if the end user sets the snow line. There are so many variables in Trainz it's often hard to take them all into consideration! Thanks everyone, for helping me work through this.

More opinions wanted, please post yours!

 

[NIARTcar]

And on the topic of snow and seasons, not everyone gets snow. I'm a central California resident, and appart from the freak snow shower every few years, there is no snow here. This in a way would severly limit my building ussages for routes in this area if seasonal buildings followed the "it always snows in winter" thought process. Likewise, ground textures would not be like the ones I have seen thus far made. We are not green in the summer, honestly all th grass on the hills dries out and becomes a giant fire hazzard. It is only midway though december when the grass turns green with all the rain, and even then, through the rest of the winter and spring, green it remains...... I feel that there is so much variability in the enviroments that this feature makes it somewhat difficult to download in confidence that the textures align with your location and weather correctly.

cheers

 

[napierdeltic]

I would very much love to be able to convert the ECML into a seasonal route including high spec textures. This needs to be the way forward to get routes more realistic. I know in the beginning its going to be a challenge to content creators but would soon become natural. Trainz has developed immensely over the years but to me this is personally a big jump forward.

Sound levels increase for tunnels and over bridges is also on our wish list.

As we say over here fill your boots

Cheers
Stuart

ECML Project leader

 

[kamran]

can some one tell me what are seasonal assets/textures
how they work in trainz 2010

 

[Euphod]

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