ALTERING/FIXING DOWNLOADED ROUTES

Rackwick

New member
Like many Trainz enthusiasts I enjoy downloading the many and varied routes from the DLS. Unfortunately it appears there are errors in many of them. Or they are “not quite right” from a taste point of view forcingthe user to either delete them again or begin altering or fixing them – often a hugely time-consuming business. At times a user ends up effectively doing the work the route-builder should have done inthe first place. I know that it has often been said – “ Hey its all freeware,if you don’t like it delete it”! However that’s missing the point. I’d rather give someone’s work a try out first in the hope that wont be necessary.

The best route creators put in enormous effort to build highly detailed, realistic railways –spectacular towns and cities, beautiful landscapes full of vegetation, and fantastically accurate track and signal layouts. Routes full of atmosphere of real world locations. Favorites of mine like this as examples are Sherman Hill by TrainzItalia and Protoclinch by TrainsPro Routes (bothUS), Oxford to Queens (Australia) Kent and East Sussex Railway and Ashburton to Windrush Railway (both UK).


On the other hand some routes come nowhere near this high standard – wobbly tracks, hardly any texturing, minimal, carelessly laid outbuildings if any, no trees or vegetation. There seems to be no regard given to aesthetics whatsoever. Bare boards with a giant switching/shunting yard, or a few miles of track with a couple of portals at either end. Not very good!


But many routes are in between – very promising, but when downloaded found to be aesthetically disappointing. Or with errors such as some missing assets that may be worth trying to fix depending on how much you like the route and think its worthwhile commiting time to what might be a massive job.


Recently for instance I downloaded a very large route I liked then made the shock discovery (having not noticed at first) that every single switch lever on every crossover was missing. I did every check I could think of via CM and concluded that the route was for an older pre 2010 version of Trainz and notideal for my TS12. But as I really did like the route I decided to go ahead and add all the hundreds of switch levers, only to find that the track would not accept any type I tried (all showing red/red arrows rather than red/green arrows). The only solution, I found, wasto cut out every single crossover track section and replace with another track type - a shorter option than replacing the entire track. Only then could I add a switchlever which worked correctly. Until this massive work in progress is completed my supposedly “new” route is redundant . I cant go where I want and AI wont operate. Very frustrating!


So what are some those irritating problems that need fixing withsome routes?


Missing assets
. As mentioned above. Personally I have found this to occur with nearly every route download I have ever done. You simply have to go through the process in Content Manager under the “installed” tab to check if everything is there, whether showing warning signs and if committed, then retry downloading what’s missing. None of this is necessarily to do with the route creator, and more to do with obsolescence and that the DLS should be more clearly divided by Trainz versions. Creators could help more by always stating what version their route is built for. Not everyone does this.


No trackbedballasting.
Track splines are in-built with ballast texturing. But if a route builder merely lays this on, say, a plain green ground texture it looks all wrong - bare and incomplete. You need to run matching-colored ballast stone(rock, ash or whatever) texture to create the effect of a wider trackbed along every track section of your route. Some people possibly forget to do this, but it’s worthwhile doing.


Inadequate landscape texturing.
As mentioned above all too often a base colour like green (for UK routes for example) is laid and little more. Trainz provides a bewildering range oftextures for every environment - crop fields, meadows, marshes, forests and mountains – why not make full use ofthem. Same goes for trees and trackside vegetation. Learn about natural history– what flower and tree species grow in what habitat. Real world railway corridors are a haven for specific plants – in the UK for example – buddleia,common broom, foxgloves, and of course rosebay whose parachute seeds are spreadfar and wide along the network by the trains’ slipstreams.


As a showcase of how spectacularly detailed a route can bewith its full complement of assets, texturing and vegetation look no further than Angelah’s routes – for example – WestCoast Line, A Kentish Winter or Overhillsand Faraway. For me her work is on a level few others match. It raises Trainz route-building to a beautiful art! Clearly she has a great love of landscape and a highly developed aesthetic sense. And, mirroring the realworld, Trainz is as much about landscape as it is about railways.


Other things I am not keen on, though they are personal to me, are short routes and sameness. Short routes are just frustrating. There’s no scope, and once again you are forced to alter by merging to make something rather better. Some longer routes don’t have enough variation in the landscape - all farmland or all forest for example - over the entire route length. The real world may or may not be like this,but in Trainz it would be better to avoid the tedium of some real rail journeys. And better still avoid forcing the user into having to alter and adapt the route to avoid boredom.


In conclusion I admit I have adapted a lot of downloaded routes both through necessity because of errors and because I didn’t like its shortcomings, such as for example not enough or inappropriate industries, or industries in the wrong place – like a seaport suddenly appearing in what is essentially an inland route without giving it reference by having an extended rocky coastline for a considerable distance on either side.


Most changes I have done for my own use and I have never uploaded them to the DLS. It seems from what I have read many route creators are not bothered if you make changes, some actively say it is okay to do so as long as you don’t make money out of it. Some developers like for example the Checkrail guy (dermy) seem to make a song a dance about it in his lengthy “licence”disclaimer which I find slightly amusing. (His East Kentucky route is excellent right enough, though with missing tunnels and bridges needing fixed after I downloaded). Everyone who uses Trainz knows that there are masses of excellent routes on the DLS that you don’t pay a penny for. Why would anyone pay money for what they can get for free. So why get hot under the collar that suddenly there is going to be a global outbreak of intellectual property theft. Seems pretty unlikely somehow?


Meanwhile despite everything I have said about problem withroutes, I appreciate the huge amount of work and time many people have put increating routes and thank them for their generosity in letting us share in the rewards.
 
Good statement about creating routes for the Trainz products.
The Trainz simulator is one the best software products supplied with creative editor tools that is suitable for people of all ages.
In the real world of gaming development and program creation it is not one author involved in the process but usually a team of professional people that create the software for a game.
Most of Trainz members would be amateurs at programing and to make a simple two board layout with a track, industry, and a train running around, then to have it approved by N3V for publishing as freeware is a great achievement.
Third party created kuid's such as locomotives, rolling stock, buildings, etc are not all 100% complete, and missing commands or bugs in the scripts is a common occurrence.
However people with the technical know-how can always use the PEV tools and tweak them up to the latest version of trainz.
This is what makes this game interesting in modifying and enhancing others work to create the perfect layout of your desires.
In conclusion there is always room for improvement of the product as we are all aware of the main program build number increasing in size as time passes.
 
Welcome to the forums...

I too enjoy this aspect of Trainz, whatever version and have modified many routes to my satisfaction including fixing those things that should have been attended to. I'm particularly annoyed by floating objects, whether it's buildings and other objects that are just a hair off the surface, or worse splines like roads and track which I think are the worst offenders.

The thing is we can do whatever we wish once we download these routes. Some become mergers, standalone in the own right, or you know what else can happen. I agree there are some things that don't work properly and weren't quite thought out like the seaport suddenly appearing inland. Perhaps the route builder was trying to build a river port. We don't know and can only assume that. Being Trainz, we can fix that, and there are many cases were I too have removed those things and made the route better, at least to me.

It's interesting that you mentioned the East Kentucky. If you download the latest version from his website you should be all set. He has links to all the dependencies, including those nice Pofig Trees. This route is an excellent one to modify and this became part of my own merger and operation.

I made this part of a group of routes by Dave Snow, Jointed Rail, Dermmy, and George Fisher (updated by MSGSAPPER). I took these quite complex routes and produced what I call the Ozark Valley and Western, which takes the name from the second route in the merger - Dave Snow's Ozark Valley. Starting from the east, is the East Kentucky, followed by the Ozark Valley, with a bit of my own model building in between. At the far west end is a short section by me which blends into the 2 Midwest routes originally by George Fisher. These blend into Jointed Rail's Midwest Grain/Cold Storage routes, and finally they blend into Dermmy's Evansville and Western, which I call the Evansville and Western Division.

Traveling from one end to the other takes about 5 hours and includes lots of additional traffic and activities. I've recently heavily modified the eastern coal region, making this an even more complex operation by adding in additional portals and a wye near a major branch and yard. This is now a major division point, and the subsequent traffic increase has made the operation more interesting as the locals have to stay clear of the through traffic.
 
Sometimes fixing a route is more difficult than making it over again, from scratch ... I thought about fixing track on the NEC by Neuman, but it would take forever to correct things
 
Sometimes fixing a route is more difficult than making it over again, from scratch ... I thought about fixing track on the NEC by Neuman, but it would take forever to correct things

No problem with TS12 and up using the replace assets utility. :)

Then go back later and fiddle with junctions, replace junction levers, signals, and so on.
 
I'm a confessed route builder and I have to agree that some of the routes available on the DLS are very disappointing.
When I create new routes I go to great lengths to make sure all the simple things are covered, sometimes running over the entire route several times from every angle. I got so sick of downloading a new route and getting incomplete track work, missing junction levers, singular textures, floating roads and impossible gradients!
Even the simple things matter, I always set my routes with all the junctions aligned so whoever wants to run doesn't end up with a frustrating and avoidable derailment.

There certainly are some excellent examples out there for free if people are happy to go hunting for a bit of non-DLS content. I recently installed Maxwerks Corpus Christie route and it is spectacular. Maybe the DLS could use the addition of a "Hall Of Fame" section for outstanding content.
 
Trainz Members:

By the way experience has proved that missing parts in routes like levers, signals and track items is possibly because the author forgot to merge all the track items into the route layer.

In Trainz 12 Simulator there are two basic layers in the editor program:
The route layer
The session layer


It is very common to leave a signal in the session layer.
The author uploads the route to the DLS only and the signal is now missing.

Best to merge layers together then leave locomotives and consists in the session layer.
Not many people load up session layers to the DLS.

This could be a reason why there are missing levers.

davies_mike57
 
No problem with TS12 and up using the replace assets utility. :)

Then go back later and fiddle with junctions, replace junction levers, signals, and so on.

I am glad there must be a way to use the replace assets utility to replace faulty track. Can you give a guidance as to how to replace track? when all I see is the two white lines? So far I have not been able to figure that one, but of course there is a draconian way...
 
Hi Rackwick

I read your post with interest but don't necessarily agree with all of it. You definitely wouldn't like the type of routes that I build as the landscaping is either very minimal or none existant. My interest is in the automation of railway operations and so my routes are usually just trackwork and signals and are just used to try out whatever aspect of operations that I am currently experimenting with. Actually driving holds no interest for me at all.

I also use downloaded routes that are based on prototypical ones as it is easy to develop realistic services for them. The ECML, GCR and S&C routes are all excellent for running realistic UK operations on while Sherman Hill, EVWR and EK3 are all US routes that I often use. Recently I have been downloading and using some of the Eastern European and Russian routes and if excellent scenery is your criteria then you should have a look at them. Check out the European screenshots thread to see examples of what I mean.

Trainz is a very broad church and is used to create air and sea layouts as well as for railways so although you may think that something isn't up to your expectations there will be people somewhere in the community who may think that it is just what they are looking for.

Regards

Brian
 
I am glad there must be a way to use the replace assets utility to replace faulty track. Can you give a guidance as to how to replace track? when all I see is the two white lines? So far I have not been able to figure that one, but of course there is a draconian way...

Hi Ilebrez.

There is a way to replace the dotted white lines but it involves editing the missing spline kuid. The original kuid for the missing spline is kuid:523:1124 and it does not list in surveyor. Find it in CM and open it for edit, Navigate to your edit folder and open the config.txt file, Change the item kuid to kuid2:523:1124:1 and change the "permit-listing" tag to 1 (or it might work by just deleting the tag) save the changes in the config.txt file and return to CM. In CM select "import content folder" navigate to the edit folder and import it. The missing spline will now be available in the track tab and you can use the replace assets function to replace it with the track of your choice.

Cheers,
Bill69
 
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The quality of routes posted to the download station vary from superb to dire, as you say. Sometimes the description and thumbnail are enough to indicate "dire" or even "not to my taste"; but not always. The only way to see the route is to download it then observe it in Surveyor via "edit route".

I try to be careful about when I download such a route for investigation, so that there's a significant timegap between the last downloads that I retained and the new package of stuff that gets downloaded as additions to a newly downloaded route I want to investigate. If the investigation reveals that I don't want the route, it's then easy to select all the recent downloads that came with that route and delete the lot, including the unwanted route-asset itself.

Some routes are extremely realistic; they have the perhaps unfortunate side effect of making other good routes look "less" - our personal standards for judging a route "good" go up. For example, like you I used to think of Angelah's routes as the best for detail, some years ago; but now Ashburton, Duchy Days, Gwladys Ddu, Much Murkle (redux) and others have upped the realism-standard so that even Angelah's routes look a bit less convincing in comparison. Often this is down to the more primitive assets used from the early days of Trainz.

As Kennilworth noted, Trainz is a broad church. It's about a lot more than downloading a route then driving on it. Like others, I seem to spend much more time rebuilding, merging, adding-to or enhancing someone else's routes, which is a pleasure in itself.

****

Personally my biggest bugbear is (what looks to me to be) the inherent contradiction between the notions of freeware and licensing or copyright of it. I believe it would put enormous new life into Trainz if it were the norm to be able to take a route, enhance it then offer it as such to the download station without original creators doing a song & dance about it. That's how things evolve in the natural world, not via artificial and (in a freeware world) spurious copyright restrictions that tend to kill or slow evolution right down.

But I won't download any of the enhanced routes I spend time making as I don't want to break the Trainz content-creation rules, even though I personally find these rules peculiar; and I certainly don't want the flak from jealous copyright obsessives.

It's a moot point concerning when route changes and additions are so extensive that it becomes a new route rather than another's route with changes. There are quite a few such routes on the download station - extensively changed from the original to become almost unrecognisable as such - but not quite.

On the other hand, perhaps there should also be stricter quality standards for routes that must be reached before an upload is allowed? But how would such quality standards be derived and enforced? Not easy.

Lataxe
 
Hi Lataxe

The problem is who would decide what is acceptable and what isn't. As the OP noted, there are some routes which are just track on a baseboard and probably of no interest to the majority of people. However, as I mentioned earlier, most of the routes that I create are of a basic type created for a specific test purpose. A yard consisting of just track on a blank baseboard can save me a lot of time as it can be downloaded in a matter of seconds without also downloading shedloads of dependencies. I can then quickly adapt it to what I need. Who would decide if such a route was useful, you or myself?

There are so many ways to use Trainz that rubbish to one person can be gold to someone else.

Regards

Brian
 
Hi Lataxe

The problem is who would decide what is acceptable and what isn't. As the OP noted, there are some routes which are just track on a baseboard and probably of no interest to the majority of people. However, as I mentioned earlier, most of the routes that I create are of a basic type created for a specific test purpose. A yard consisting of just track on a blank baseboard can save me a lot of time as it can be downloaded in a matter of seconds without also downloading shedloads of dependencies. I can then quickly adapt it to what I need. Who would decide if such a route was useful, you or myself?

There are so many ways to use Trainz that rubbish to one person can be gold to someone else.

Regards

Brian

Perhaps one quality "rule" might be that an uploaded route has to be of use to a significant number of people? I confess I don't really understand why you would want to upload "just a track on a blank baseboard". Perhaps you mean extensive track work on a terrain-profiled set of baseboards, to be used by others as a basis for building fully-populated routes ...... ? I could see such a route being of use to those who might not want to construct terrain profiles themselves - especially if they're meant to represent a railway in the real world - although such a facility would surely have to be copyright-free if it were to be of genuine use to those who wanted to use it as a base for constructing a full route.

I have thought of uploading a series of one-board "routes" that would serve as "parts" for merging into a route being constructed by anyone who wants such "parts" so that copy/paste could be used to extract "parts of the part" to be placed here and there. I have a couple of single baseboard "towns" that I made to use for that purpose in my own (local to my PC) routes. They have lots of residential and shopping streets, town squares, parks and so forth - but no railway. I copy/paste bits into a route I'm making before eventually deleting the "parts" board. I could imagine a series of one-board "routes" of this kind with various themes, including things like a rail yards, industries with the surrounding gubbins, a collection of stations with all the surroundings and extras (such as animated figures); and so forth.

The most frustrating routes are those with names and descriptions that excite my interest (typically a steam-era British route) but turn out on downloading to be crudely-made with acres of the same unpopulated texture and a rail line that is nothing but badly-laid track and a few billboard trees dotted about. It would be useful if there was at least a Trainz quality-rating that route-creators were encouraged to populate with something like a 1-10 marking representing the degree of realism, the density of the asset population or other such parameters. But I agree, very hard to make that marking anything like objective.

Lataxe
 
I found especially for beginners that toying with and fixing a already completed route off the DLS to theyre tastes., makes for a great learning tool...
 
Thank you for the "method". But I have not tried it because in my route there are many different types of rails, and I will be there forever changing things. My draconian solution is this: To import from TS12 to T:ane, make a copy of the route and name it differently. Now using the replace assets function, change all the tracks types into only one that is accepted by T:ane. It does not matter if it is ugly and does not match the scenery. Now import this route into T:ane and make sure it shows the "ugly" track. Then using the replace asset function replace this with whatever track fits the scenery at each part of the route. By this, you get new "updated" types and may improve what you had. Draconian but it works. Thank you again.

Hi Ilebrez.

There is a way to replace the dotted white lines but it involves editing the missing spline kuid. The original kuid for the missing spline is kuid:523:1124 and it does not list in surveyor. Find it in CM and open it for edit, Navigate to your edit folder and open the config.txt file, Change the item kuid to kuid2:523:1124:1 and change the "permit-listing" tag to 1 (or it might work by just deleting the tag) save the changes in the config.txt file and return to CM. In CM select "import content folder" navigate to the edit folder and import it. The missing spline will now be available in the track tab and you can use the replace assets function to replace it with the track of your choice.

Cheers,
Bill69
 
:)Thanks guys for your very interesting replies. Some good points and suggestion there. The point raised by davies_mike 57 about layers is something I had not thought of. It could explain things in my recent problem. I have had issues in the past with layers. I must admit I think it is a "nuisance" feature and just something else to complicate things. I wish it wasn't there.

I guess Kennilworth you are right - we all view the world through different eyes. Some folk such as yourself like technicality, others like me like to go on "journeys", to gaze on the natural world and glorious landscapes. I have always been a landscape photographer, and Trainz, as well as other 3D graphics programs, like for instance Vue and even Space Engine, gives fantastic scope for great imagery.

I am totally with you Lataxe when you say that a user should be able to enhance a route and upload back to the DLS without always having to refer back to the original creator and worry about copyright. The whole point of Trainz is that it is an open-ended system to allow change and adaptation. Because of this, I believe, a route builder would have a hard time being awarded damages in a law suit after claiming infringement of copyright. Not that it would be such a hot idea to put it to the test! (If anyone at N3V would like to confirm the rights of this I would be interested to hear.) As you say - when does a route by one person become a completely different route when changed by someone else? How would a judge interpret such a blurred situation?

Lataxe I totally agree with everything you said in your last reply. - especially the last paragraph - you've said it all!
 
I have to agree with a lot of what has been written above in regard to routes and sessions etc. The download station used to be populated by excellent items from great creators and the standard was for most part quite high.
Now it seems anyone can either clone a route and upload it back to the download station as their own work without any type of measures being in place as far as I am aware?
Also it seems that anyone can upload a bit of track as a route with a name and call it what they like, Is this something to do with the so called "phone generation" as I would like to return to the days of quality items (not just routes) maybe its time for a separate download station for this generation or at least separate section for them ?
Having worked on the railway for 30 years I have a quite good operating knowledge of British rail practice and have to agree with comments above about excellent routes and the way they are presented but why is the layers thing so confusing and relevant surely it would be better to upload 5 versions of a route but in different time period settings ? All in all the above discussion is hopefully opening up something that can be taken forward in regard to routes being enhanced and improved without criticism of the original builder but improving or correcting the original work?
This is purely based on layouts that are British based as thats where my knowledge lies, Layouts like the S&C,Potteries loop, Midshires and a few others set very high standards so I take my hat off to you guys!
 
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