Scottish Border Line argument

rjhowie

Active member
At one time there was a neat network of railways in the Scottish Borders southeast of Edinburgh but all were lost in the infamous Dr Beeching review in the 60's. However the previous admin in the Scottish parliament agreed to re-open part of the old Waverley Route from Edinburgh as far as just beyond Galashiels as the trackbed is intact. In fact the bed is still there on to Melrose and beyond. Now there are MP's one from each of the Coalition partners publicly disagreeing with each other on the value of the project.

It would be a pity if the re-opening was shelved as the population has greatly increased and would be an excellent new opening into the Border region. Where we have had other routes in Scotland brought back after decades they have broken the estimated numbers.
 
Hi There.
I think it will undoubtedly be shelved indefinitely along with many other rail upgrades and re-openings. In the Bristol area it has already been announced that the reopening of the Portizhead to Bristol Temple Meads line has been shelved indefinitely due to the budget cuts.

The best part of this announcement is that the line is already there and being used to transport new imported cars from Portbury docks to all parts of the country. Commuters from Portizhead to Bristol desperately need the line re-opened for passengers due to the terrible road traffic congestion that takes place during every workday morning and evening.

The line was closed compleatly during the beaching axe years but was re-opened when the new Portbury docks started importing large numbers of new cars from all over the world. The reopening of the line was paid for as a joint venture between the dock owners,the County Counsel and the Ministry transport. However the government state that is not suitable for passenger use and would have to be upgraded yet again if it is to be used for that purpose.

The money was due to be allocated for the project I believe in the coming year. But of course all that is gone out the window as the banks now seem to have all the government money that was due to be used for that project and many others.

Three cheers for the capitalist bankers sticking our money in their pockets as huge salaries and bonuses while the general public that saved their jobs hit the skids and suffer.

Bill:(
 
I'm pretty sure I read in this month's RAIL magazine or similar that tenders had been invited for the reconstruction of the line.Don't forget that the Scottish Parliament is a separate entity from Cameron and his stooges.
Rebuilding south of Galashiels would involve some serious viaducts notably at Hawick so I don't expect to see it happen any time soon.
 
Hi There.
I certainly hope you're right Lewisner when you say the borders project could still go ahead. However, I have the feeling a lot more bad news is to come in the autumn when the government announces the cuts that will be carried out through the 25% reduction in all department budgets.

Network Rail I believe his now a wholly owned government agency. As a large percentage of his income comes from that government it is highly likely that the grant it gets will be cut by at least the 25% amount if not more. It is highly likely that the upgrade of the London Paddington to Bristol line announced with such trumpeting a few months ago will be scratched in that announcement.

I often travel on that line catching the 6:40 AM Weston-super-Mare to London Paddington via Bristol. Getting on at Yatton early in the journey it is not difficult to get to seat. However, once past Bristol it is usually impossible for people boarding at Bath, Chippenham, Swindon and other stops to have any chance of getting a seat. If you get on at Bath that means you will pay in excess of £130 return very often for the privilege of standing throughout the hundred mile journey.

In recent years there has been a huge rise in the west of England in the demand for rail transport. It therefore seems ridiculous to cut the upgrade and reopening projects not only in the West country but throughout the rest of the UK. To carry on with the modernization would bring more people on to the railways and off of the roads. This would make travel much greener and would mean that less money would be needed in road maintenance and upgrading. The rail upgrading would also give employment to thousands of people throughout the country at a time when hundreds of thousands if not a million or more are about to be dumped on the dole. We will have to pay for them in that capacity while they could be employed in making Britain a greener and more pleasant place to travel in.

But of course that would only make sense to people like us and not people like politicians who seem to live in a world of their own with their own agenda (usually for themselves)

bill
 
Hi Lewisner.
Well from what I read in the article you posted it certainly looks like it will get built. I like the ideal of placing the whole project in the hands of a non-profit making organization which makes a fresh change from using the usual main contractors who very often seem to come up with very similar tender prices for whatever project it is within the rail industry. Strange also how often once the main contractors is appointed the other main contractors seem to subcontract from them for various jobs in the project.

However (cynicism aside), what seems to ensure that the line will get built is in one of the last paragraph which I have quoted again here:-
"The Utilities work which began in March 2010 ‘triggered’ the Waverley Railway (Scotland) Act 2006 states that once work has begun the railway must be finished in its entirety from Edinburgh to Tweedbank". End quote.

That certainly is a great clause and it is a shame that it was not added to some of the school modernization projects which have been scrapped. However, I have felt that they do things far better in Scotland since they had their own parliament than we do in England limping along with the totally discredited parliament that we have.

Bill:D
 
Can I say that at no time was there any plan to re-open beyond essentially Galashiels. The line originally went across that part of Scotland to Carlisle. There has been no push by anyone south of Galashiels for re-instatement. A number of years ago i stayed in Melrose leading a Boys' Brigade Camp there two years running. I was surprised at how intact Melrose Station was and the former trackbed. At the time we also walked along the trackbed and got a suprise at Galashiels when we seen all the signs intact for "Stationmaster", etc. In fact two of my lieutenants and myself walked south and crossed the viaduct (unofficially!) one afternoon beyond Melrose!

It would be silly to think that everything is so rosy that cuts should be ignored as that is not possible. I wasn't a great fan of the parliament up here and as one of the 25% who said "no". Anyway, the present Scottish government by that niggler Salmond, tried to pull the plug on the now stalled Edinburgh tramway passed by the previous administration. They didn't succeed. In an ideal world I would like to see that one part of the old Borders network go ahead. Amongst the local lines brought back the latest will be the one between Airdrie and Bathgate which we be functioning shortly. This will give 4 quite separate passenger services between Glasgow and Edinburgh on different tracks and directions and I said here a while back there will be very few cities that can boast that! And before someone queries that they are all the same they are as follows.

Glasgow (Queen Street) - Edinburgh vialFalkirk. Every 15 minutes during the day.
Glasgow (Central) - Edinburgh via Shotts. More spaced out service.
Glasgow (Central - Edinburgh for the East Coast and periodic of course but there.
Glasgow (Queen Street) via Airdrie (change) - Edinburgh.

Certainly having a parliament here can mean different decisions but they will be effected when the block grant from the Treasury is cut. The proposed brand new rail link to Glasgow airport has already been dumped. Successes have been shown in the re-instatement of the Larkhall Line and the Stirling-Alloa one too. So we haven't done too badly up here?

Galashiels? I keep my fingers crossed!
 
Well, without wanting to get too much into the politics it is a fact that the various London based governments of whatever hue have generally loved roads and hated railways for many years.When did you last hear of a road being closed because it wasn't making a profit?!
The Financial Times did a study some years ago and determined that the road network was subsidised by the taxpayer to the tune of (I think) two thirds i.e it only paid one thirds of it's costs.
As for no money being available we are shelling out about 9 BILLION for the Olympics - how many railways would that build and what benefits would they bring? I seem to remember that when Stirling to Alloa was reopened the passenger loadings exceeded those in the feasibility study by 3 or 4 times.
Let's hope the Scottish Parliament stick to their guns and see this project through.
 
Meanwhile, elsewhere in recession-hit Europe... http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jwP1Yjd_fP6LOfd0erg1SMCXv19g

Really glad I left the UK since the last election...

Paul


Looking at that, you wouldn't think we won Two World Wars, Germany have got such a superb railway network, one of the best in the world, and there country is so beautiful, and they have a better football team.

Germany is now one of the best places to live, and they also have the future of transportation with Maglev, we British invented Magnetic Levitation, but the Germans took it one stage further and built the most sleak and fastest thing on the rail.

It's good to hear that the Railways are still being invested in. The railways are the future, as roads become blocked with traffic jams and oil slowly becomes non existent, railways will be the only way forward.

Joe Airtime
 
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Hi Everybody.
To take the debate one stage further, there will always have to be in any advanced country going forward both rail and road transport. As I have said before on these forums I spent many years of my working life as a heavy goods vehicle driver before going on to become a health and safety officer in the same industry visiting various depots and Regional Distribution Centers all over England.

It was in the latter capacity that I started traveling whenever I could by rail. Now having extensive experience in both forms of travel I have become convinced of two things. Rail transport is the finest form of travel for human beings, whereas road transport is the best form of travel for freight.

Don't get me wrong railways have a growing role in freight transportation. However, it has to be faced that in many capacities it will never replace and cannot replace the hated heavy goods vehicle. As an example at a Regional Distribution Center I recently visited they received each night 18 trunk vehicles (vehicles that run from central warehousing to the Regional Distribution Center). Anyone can easily imagine that if you hitch all these vehicle together and put them on a railway you would have complete train.

Of course unless a railway it was laid directly into the central warehousing complex it would mean transporting the goods in containers to the nearest railhead, offloading, re-loading it onto the train, offloading it at the terminal railhead and transporting the containers to the Regional Distribution Center. The foregoing can be without doubt a time-consuming operation, but it can be done and is slowly being done.

However, the second part of the Regional Distribution Centers operation is to transport the products to large edge of town or town center retail stores. This part of the operation could never be done by rail as I do not think anyone can see a time when railways will run directly to Tesco or Marks & Spencer retail outlets. Therefore roads will always have to be maintained to such a standard that they can handle short journeys for both cars engaged in local journeys to retail outlets and the heavy vehicles that will supply them.

Where railways have an undoubted advantage over road transport is when it comes to moving large numbers of people over long and medium distances. From where I live in Somerset to the nearest big city (Bristol) is approximately 18 miles. Thousands of people throughout Somerset have to make this journey every working day. This creates huge traffic jams on the roads leading into Bristol and great frustration for the commuters stuck in their cars. The situation is the same in and around all big cities throughout Britain, but it can be changed with a reasonable level of investment.

As in Somerset all that is needed is investment in better rolling stock (more carriages on Trains) and more frequent services on lines. Train passengers unlike freight can look after themselves. A short drive to the nearest rail station is no hardship unlike the long car commute that these people often take. It has already been proven time and time again that each time you increase the frequency or coaches on the Trains the passenger numbers increase rapidly take up the new capacity.

Therefore I feel without any doubt, that despite the current financial situation in the country to continue investment in railways and especially the passenger transport aspect would have the benefit of relieving the roads of congestion therefore making it easier and cheaper for freight which has to go by road to become more efficient. This would be to the benefit of us all in cheaper prices and at the same time make a far better and greener life for many hundreds of thousands of people trapped in their cars for hours each week trying to negotiate the drudgery of the daily working commute.

Bill
 
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I sympathise to an extent on the criticism of rail development in the UK as a whole but there again where you live has a part. We have had several rail re-openings in Scotland and very successful they are too. In England/Wales and Ulster there is a dearth of such.

What makes the issue more pertinent is that more people are using rail than ever before and the highest figures for forty or more years. We invent the railways and today others are streaking ahead with expansion, etc.

When the Larkhall Line was brought back into the Glasgow suburban electrics network it was so successful that Stonehouse which is beyond Larkhall wanted to know why the line couldn't be continued to them. The trackbed is still intact. I am sure there are places in England that it would be a good idea to have rail back and the same goes for Ulster which I know well from holidays and conferences, etc. Over there N.I. has had the worst of rail closures decades ago and there are whole Counties out of the 6 with no railway and people wanting it back.

I will be watching this joke of a parliament we have up here with it's mundane bores to see what happens with the Galashiels project.
 
According to one of the current rail mags the first actual sod has been cut on the new line.
Not everybody will be happy - someone has built a house on the trackbed near Stow and it will have to go........:confused:
 
Hi - My understanding is that Galashiels station is now concreted over and is part of a shopping precinct. I cannot speak for any situations, such as Melrose, Selkirk or Hawick for example.

I was party to the work taking place around Glasgow as in Larkhall and we have just supplied equipment for Paisley and others are in the pipe-line. There will be various old routes around Britain that will come back to life but it will take time.

Doug
 
It did have a picture of a modern looking concrete bridge at Galashiels and mentioned something about a building beyond it. Lets hope they bulldoze it and relocate it elsewhere.
 
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