Saving queries/problems

Mike_Brown

New member
After a few more or less disastrous attempts, I have finally got myself a route that seemed to be ok. So I polished up few bits and pieces and went into Quickdrive to start doing some testing. There were of course a few things that needed to be sorted (signal positioning, missing levers etc.), so I exited and made the necessary changes by editing the session, and then again did some testing with Quickdrive. Success!! (mostly).

Now here's the rub. I exited the session, and in the save process checked the "overwrite route" and "overwrite sesion" options. However, on returning to the route a couple of days later I find that the route has not been overwritten, and that a new session has been created rather than the original being overwritten - and that this new session was not editable. Where am I getting this wrong?


Also - are AI instructions supposed to automatically save with a session, or is there another process whereby these instructions are retained?
 
G'day Mike,
Could you please indicate for which version you are talking here? If it is for 2009 or later then I probably can't help but do know that for 2006 and earlier that all instructions for AI should be saved with the session. It seems very strange to me that you clicked all the right buttons but didn't get the route changes saved, however maybe the later versions require something to be done with the layers?

Cheers
Russell.
 
Mr Brown,

I don't pretend to understand the full ins&outs but from experience.....

In TS2010 & TS2012 we have the dreaded layers (minimum one route & one session layer). These can complicate the "save" process. For a start, it is possible to believe you are updating a route when in fact you are just writing changes to the session.

Also, when you save you may be causing a glitch in the route/session config files such as they acquire an error (a red exclamation mark). You can discover any such glitchy files in Content Manager even if they don't show in the Routes list of the main program. Make a query "Intalled date = (date you saved the file)" and/or "faulty" + "location = local".

I have found that a glitched route or session sometimes saves as "New Asset" with the red exclamation mark (so visible only in CM). It shows the actual route or session name in the config file, though. Also, there seem to be instances when the region and/or era get set to essentially null values and this causes the error. (But there are sometimes other causes of the error).

When this has happened to me, I find the faulty route/session (sometimes named "new asset") using CM as above, then edit it with CM Editor which identifies the faulty config file fields with red highlighting. It is usually an easy edit to put in the correct value(s) then save the changes with the Editor. Voila, when the revised asset is committed, the fixed route or session now appears in the main program's Route list.

Lataxe, fixing it by feeling about in the dark.

PS A more knowleageable fellow may offer a more precise or even alternative analysis of your problem.
 
From what I understand of it, it's either a layers issue, or a Quickdrive bug. Have you tried exiting Surveyor normally (not using Quickdrive) then entering Driver?

Also, if you are using Windows Vista or 7, make sure Trainz is set to run as administrator (Basic/Starter/Home Premium versions)

Shane
 
Thanks guys, and thanks for you info (and apologies for late response - I got called away for a couple of days). I will check things out again and get back.

(Never did understand/get the point of layers.)

Mike
 
After a few more or less disastrous attempts, I have finally got myself a route that seemed to be ok. So I polished up few bits and pieces and went into Quickdrive to start doing some testing. There were of course a few things that needed to be sorted (signal positioning, missing levers etc.), so I exited and made the necessary changes by editing the session, and then again did some testing with Quickdrive. Success!! (mostly).

Now here's the rub. I exited the session, and in the save process checked the "overwrite route" and "overwrite sesion" options. However, on returning to the route a couple of days later I find that the route has not been overwritten, and that a new session has been created rather than the original being overwritten - and that this new session was not editable. Where am I getting this wrong?


Also - are AI instructions supposed to automatically save with a session, or is there another process whereby these instructions are retained?

If you are editing anything that effects the route, then you must merge the session with the route layer before saving, if you are repeatedly clicking edit the route you will get a new session every time.
If you don't merge the session with the route before saving first, nothing will be added to the route and you will get an ever increasing collection of sessions. AI instructions are saved with the session, unless you merge it with the route, in which case they will be saved to the route. Not sure why your session wasn't editable though, probably a different problem.

What I do.

Start a new route, save it which will give you the option of naming the session, call this session say Route Editing Session, I just call it 001 as I'm used to doing it that way. When you then want to build or edit your route, open this session every time, do not click edit route. When finished editing at this point you have the route as it originally was, plus the session containing your editing additions deletions etc. Saving at this point will give you your original route unchanged and the updated session so don't save.
Now merge the session layer with the route layer, you can then then save, as you have been doing by overwriting route and session. At this point you now have the route and the session which if you load one or the other appear identical and no extra sessions have been created. I never click edit route at all, just use my edit session merge it before saving and have had zero problems.
You may now have twigged that so long as you use the Editing session every time it's not hypercritical to merge every single time so long as you continue to do your route editing in that same session and remember that the route will not be in synch until you do.

For those who like to hack files if you examine the configs for both the route and an unmerged session you will see kuid's listed in both, after you have merged, all bar the actual routes kuid will have gone from the sessions config and have been added to the the route config.


It would of course be easier if it was clearer that the route doesn't actually get updated fully unless you merge first. I spent a week trying to fathom out what I was doing wrong, may still be even, however the above works for me and reduced my blood pressure. ;)
 
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To explain it in simple terms will make it easy to understand. When you are a
working on a route You should do everything in route except the following: Everything in the locomotive tab, setting up industries to produce and consume etc!, setting up portals to emit/accept trains and everything in the rules button which should be done in session only. DO NOT use quick driive as it is largely unneccessary, just makes life more complicated than it needs to be. When doing things in Route I always select Route from the Route Screen. A lot of people go into session and select Route from there but I think it,s a bad practise. It,s important to make them as completely seperate as possible to prevent mistakes. I got annoyed with myself earlier. I was working in session, got carried away and did some stuff which needed doing in Route. The point is it,s easy to muddle them up. Layers is complicated and your aim is to make it as simple as possible using a set routine. When saving in Route select "SAVE". OK, so it creates an extra session. How long does it take to delete the bottom one? Likewise in session I select "SAVE" as well. If you want to save the session and/or the route with another name I now do it in the session not the route as that is safer. It does take a bit of getting used to but thats layers for you. Of course experiened Route builders will do it differently but us simpletons have to, well keep it simple. It is perfectly ok to add a locomotive or train in Route for testing purposes as long as you delete it when you have finished. And should you be working on a Multiplayer route anytime the multiplayer rule is the very last thing you add (in session of course
:D).
 
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