Runaround strangeness.

[nicky9499]

I have this station at the end of my railway. Sort of like a small one-platform terminal. This how it works.

The train (headed by a double cab diesel) goes into the station on the inbound track, stops at the platform, runs around the train and backs up to the coaches.
Here's the problem. If we change to cab view, we would notice where the AI driver is facing. It appears that after having recoupled to the train, the AI driver continues to sit in the cab facing the cars and reverse the train into the small strip of track at the back (and end up crashing into the buffers). The only signal on this section is at the front, which controls the passing loop just before the station so that multiple trains can get in and out of the station.

Does anyone know how should I set up the track or make some changes so that the AI will face the correct direction after running around? I've tried everything from single cabbed locomotives to adding more track between A and B but it still doesn't work!

Someone help please, I'm at my wit's end. =x

 

[Euphod]

That signal seems completely wrong to me in it's location. I always ONLY signal the two tracks that are joining into one...reason being if one track is becoming two, then one of those two will always be open.
Ed

 

[lewisner]

Nicky, have a look at the thread "Signalling Dilemma" which I"ve bumped up for you.

 

[jost62]

nicky9499,

if I understand you correctly you report two problems:
1. The driver is always looking in one direction = backward, when changing the direction. As far as I know that is a inbuilt feature of locos. Only some locos (resp. the builders of that locos) move the driver always to the front end. Yo can not change that.
2. I guess you use the "runaround" command. Many reported that that command is very unreliable (cost me a whole weekend). Try first the simple way: After the runaround give the command "Wait5sec" , then "drive to Marker X" (in the new forward direction).
If that does not work, you have to do the slow version: "Decouple", "Drive to Marker near End of line", "Turn around", "Drive to marker Middle of roundaround loop", "drive to marker Near signal", "turn around", "couple", "turn around", "drive to Marker out of station".
Good luck!

 

[lewisner]

As I said in the thread "Signalling Dilemma" the important things are a) There has to be sufficient distance between Points "C" (on Nickies diagram) and the bufferstops to allow the loco to occupy that piece of track and not interfere with either the operating raius of Points C or the Bufferstops and b) Yellow Direction Markers need to be placed so that the AI Driver "sees" that he can ONLY use the Runround loop to runround, NOT the Platform line, which is occupied by the Coaches.The lines only need signals in the DIRECTION OF TRAVEL so the runround loop only has signals for one direction......

 

[CasyJ]

Did you rotate the locomotive after placing it in Surveyor?

 

[nicky9499]

There is more than enough space for one entire train between c and the buffers. I use fixed track pieces as points. So the operating radius is quite small. Also, I forgot to include in the diagram the 04 signals I placed on both the INBOUND and OUTBOUND line.

Previously I've tried using signals on the runarond loop itself, but an approaching train sees the distance between the 04 signal on the INBOUND and the 02 signal on the left side of the runaround as AN EMPTY BLOCK so I've decided to make the station one entire block.

Here's another problem, because a few trains run on the line at once, two trains often meet up at the station. One is in the station, and the other waits on the INBOUND track. One problem I noticed is since AI trains set junctions for themselves, the INBOUND train switches the turnout A towards itself (and the only way I can switch it back is to regain control of the inbound train). In this scenario, the train at the station, even if it has completed the runaround operation, will not be able to leave the station.

However, if I switch turnout A towards the OUTBOUND direction, the train at the station behaves in exactly the same manner as before. Regarding the directional markers, these seem to have no effect on the AI drivers, and I am now trying out the last resort using the markers and see if that helps.


Reply to CasyJ: The train I placed at the station in surveyor mode faces outbound, so it's fine. It's only when other trains come in and need to turn the loco around.

lewisner: The signal at A is an 02 controlling turnout A. Both the inbound and the outbound lines have their individual 04 signals which I forgot to include in the diagram.

Sidenote: I've been thinking of making the station appear to the AI as a block completely by itself, just like a single track line after a pasing loop, but results are always the same. Anyone has ideas how to?

ADD-ONS---------------------------

I've changed the track layout to the following.

Here, new problems arise.
I've put a trackmark just in front of the station, and used the "driver to trackmark" command to make him drive out of the station properly. Instead, after the runaround, he would continue to back the train up until C, where he would use the loop to get to A, reverse into the station for the trackmark X, before continuing on his way. So the problem here seems pretty clear, the train refuses to go out of the station properly, instead the station behaves as if the track is ONE WAY, therefore forcing all trains to use the loop to get out of the station.

Second problem, if a second AI train happens to approach on the pass track as shown, the AI driver would change the turnout at A to face his train, which would prevent the train in the station from leaving. The only way to fix this is to stop the approaching train, change the turnout direction, let the train in the station leave before continuing the timetable of the second train.

My aim to make this railroad a fully automated line without any need of user input, given the problems presented above, this is impossible.
Anyone has any ideas?

 

[stagecoach]

The signal near lever B inbound is not needed as this lets the inbound train control point A and move towards point B causing a standoff. Use a direction mark on the loop side only to stop trains inbound from trying to use it, the station must be two way. After a runaround the driver faces the coaches as the directon of travel is still in that direction. You could use the command change train direction straight after the runaround command. You could also use a load command after runaround as the train might still be under the control of the station. Why do you need such a long spur after the C lever?

 

[nicky9499]

I've removed the signal at B as suggested, and trains run smoothly. Here's the next problem. The station can handle a single train fine. But when two trains meet, say Train A at the platform and an incoming Train B, trouble brews.

Train B, as expected, stops at the signal on the inbound line. However, he takes control of turnout A, which prevents Train A from leaving the station on the passing loop. The only solution to this at the moment would be to take over Train B, throw the switch at A, wait for Train A to leave before allowing B to continue schedule. Does anybody know how to solve this problem? Or to make trains behave as if it was just another ordinary passing loop; train on passing loop waits until train on mainline clears.

This is my first time building a single-line railway, so pardon me for being so troublesome. But it's definitely more fun than a double-tracked mainline! =D

ps. the long spur at the end was originally meant to troubleshoot early problems; to see what the train would do after going past C, the track must be long enough to accomodate the entire train.

 

[fran1]

read the thread early today, put a trigger on the outbound track with enough distance so the last vehicle of any consist will have past turnout 'A'. set your inbound schedule to include ' wait for any train to trigger 'outbound' the name of the trigger.
this will stop any inbound until outbound has left thus stopping conflicts.
if the outbound has allready left remove the trigger from that trains schedule by right click and hold on trigger and take out of schedule.

 

[nicky9499]

I've tried your method and it works like a charm. However, if I get you right, you mentioned removing the wait for trigger command from the schedule after the train has left. This requires use input. My aim of this route is for it to be fully functional and completely automatic.

Thanks anyway =D

 

[stagecoach]

What is to the left of your diagram and what way are levers set?

 

[fran1]

what I meant was if the outbound had already left. then there would be no train to trigger inbound. so then you would slide then trigger command out of inbounds schedule and off it goes.

 

[nicky9499]

Stagecoach: Both lines merge into a single track mainline.

Fran1: No offence, your solution does work, but my aim for thi railway is for it to be fully automated. Which means I can leave it running before I go to bed and expect everything to still be going smoothly in the morning. If there is a requirement for ANY user input at all (like removing the "wait for trigger" command), the route will not be fully automatic. Nevertheless, thanks for the suggestion.

What I want to achieve is:
Let's look at a simple passing loop for example. A train stops on the loop to allow an incoming train to clear the line ahead. The incoming train, which is currently in control of the turnout, passes by. Now the waiting train gets control of the turnout, throws the switch, and continues on his way-simple.

The station layout is exactly the same as the track configuration you would expect at a passing loop, so why are Alastair and his pals still misbehaving?

 

[nismit]

briefly

Posting Deleted.

 

[nicky9499]

Thanks, this command works well. The final problem is still the who-controls-turnout-A issue. A pity though, most of the rest of my layout is up and running already. Any help at all is appreciated =)

 

[fran1]

I appreciate what your attempting but for full automation regular intervals are needed with your present track layout.

 

[fran1]

nicky, try this. put another trigger on the inbound loop just before a trackmark prior to signal. make sure lead vehicle touches trigger before stopping at t/mark.
inbound train command to include drive to t/mark, wait for trigger outbound to be triggered by any train,then your normal schedule.
outbound train command to start with wait for trigger inbound to be triggered by any train then your schedule.
the only proviso with this is that you must have a train in the station ready to be triggered by the inbound train at the start of the session.
This I think will solve the problem without being to technical.

 

[stagecoach]

On the two tracks inbound/outbound place direction markers. Place a signal before the outbound line becomes single (left hand end) and make sure the lever is set default for the outbound line. Lever A should also be set for the outbound line. Dont have signals on any part of the single line and only one signal in the loop.

 

[nicky9499]

I can't believe this, we've got another problem on our hands. If you would refer to the diagram, turnout A is the eastern end of our passing loop to allow for a second train to wait. I still need to get control of the waiting train first to get around the who-controls-the-turnout problem.

Imagine this, Train A leaves the station, train B change turnout A to allow himself into the station. However, train B would change turnout B as well, and drive straight onto the passing loop (?!). He would proceed to apply full throttle, and derail at the buffers. I tried to get around this problem by temporarily taking control of train A, but unlike the previous problem, I can't even change the turnout direction now!

ADD-ON------------------------
I've tried to play around with the driver commands, and found that "STW drive" did the trick (only tried this once though). What's STW drive?