RAM, processor and Graphics Card update.

[JCitron]

Trouble is if they didn't get it right its your motherboard and cpu that is toasted.

The heat pipe idea where the liquid is contained in one piece isn't too bad. My concerns on overclocking are purely on heat and reliability. Basically practically all chemical reactions such as aging of silicon etc accelerate with heat.

Heat has always been a limiting factor in computer design which is why they went to multiple core cpus to spread the heat out a bit.

Cheerio John

John,

I agree with you on the over clocking thing. Other people may do it and it may not appear to them that they've degraded their components, but I suppose they have money to burn too and will go out and replace the whole rig in 9 months anyway.

Water cooling has gotten better, but I've heard of mold and mildew issues cropping up in the system. I know with my room humidifier, and DAMPP Chaser system installed in my grand piano, I have to add in additives to kill the mold that ends up in the water system, so it wouldn't surprise me that this happened in a water-cooling system for a computer.

John

 

[djt]

Other people may do it and it may not appear to them that they've degraded their components
John

How exactly would the components become degraded if you aren't going beyond the stock voltage range?


How about those CPU's that have the un-locked multiplier, does the bumping up the multiplier without a voltage increase degrade the chip?

I've heard of mold and mildew issues cropping up in the system.

So in the case of the Corsair H50 or H70 how would “mildew issues crop in the system”?

 

[johnwhelan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCitron
Other people may do it and it may not appear to them that they've degraded their components
John



How exactly would the components become degraded if you aren't going beyond the stock voltage range?


How about those CPU's that have the un-locked multiplier, does the bumping up the multiplier without a voltage increase degrade the chip?

This is basic chemistry, the rate of reaction, or aging in this case, varies with temperature. The only effect voltage has is a higher voltage drop across a component has a greater heating effect providing the resistance remains constant.

Cheerio John

 

[djt]

This is basic chemistry, the rate of reaction, or aging in this case, varies with temperature. The only effect voltage has is a higher voltage drop across a component has a greater heating effect providing the resistance remains constant.

Cheerio John

So how much time do you think would have to pass before any noticeable degradation would take place with a CPU that has been overclocked without exceeding the stock voltage along with having sufficient cooling?


As an example I’ve got two Pentium 4’s sitting here that have been regularly overclocked without a voltage increase along with having very good air cooling. They are both now around 8 years old and neither one has shown any noticeable degradation, but then again who cares right, they’re 8 years old?

 

[shadowarrior]

Apart from the usual (and regular) wear and tear, controlled Overclocking and Water Cooling has no side effects.
Its always the factor of, you should know what you are doing...which goes in for anything....even driving a car.

Unless you use harsh distill water, or unapproved coolants to run through your LCS, you'll never have any corrossion inside the blocks.
You need to clean the blocks time to time...but thats regular maintenance.

One can't just plug in a Liquid Cooling System and forget about everything else. The system still has other parts (Hard drives, PSU, Motherboard) which needs a proper fan (push & pull) system to cool down. All the water cooling does is dissipate heat better. But then that heat is still there, so you have to find a way to take that heat out of your room. An AC, or direct vents connected to the window works.

 

[johnwhelan]

Apart from the usual (and regular) wear and tear, controlled Overclocking and Water Cooling has no side effects.
Its always the factor of, you should know what you are doing...which goes in for anything....even driving a car.

Unless you use harsh distill water, or unapproved coolants to run through your LCS, you'll never have any corrossion inside the blocks.
You need to clean the blocks time to time...but thats regular maintenance.

One can't just plug in a Liquid Cooling System and forget about everything else. The system still has other parts (Hard drives, PSU, Motherboard) which needs a proper fan (push & pull) system to cool down. All the water cooling does is dissipate heat better. But then that heat is still there, so you have to find a way to take that heat out of your room. An AC, or direct vents connected to the window works.

From a practical point of view over a period of time say three years what you are saying is reasonable. However from a chemistry point of view please be aware that water will actually penetrate and dissolve anything. From the corrosion point of view what you are hoping is, if no additional oxygen etc. seeps in, that the system is fairly stable once you get a basic layer of oxide or corrosion in the system.

Overclocking is difficult, from a manufacturer's point of view its often cheaper to make a larger quantity of a higher quality part than to make a smaller quantity of a lesser quality part. So sometimes you can get away with it which is probably why DJT has a couple of 8 year old overclocked cpus lying around. However normally there is a trade off based on heat generated and life expectancy. Typically a desktop cpu runs about 20% or less utilisation. Trainz runs at least one or two cores at 10% utilisation which has cooling implications. There are people who have found their systems work fine for everything else but overheat when running Trainz as their computers aren't designed to cope with the extra heat. Add in an overclocked cpu that just happens to be one that isn't a higher quality part running at a lower frequency and you have a potential problem.

Hard drives are more difficult, Google has lots of hard drives and interest in keeping the going at minimum cost. Many of their systems are recycled corporate desktops. Statistically the failure rate was found to be independent of temperature much to their surprise and mine as well I might add.

The problem with Trainz is if the machine you buy is underpowered there isn't much remedy. If its overpowered you've spent too much cash.

Cheerio John

 

[djt]

Overclocking is difficult, from a manufacturer's point of view its often cheaper to make a larger quantity of a higher quality part than to make a smaller quantity of a lesser quality part.

CPU’s are very conservatively rated allowing the highest yields from a die. Out of the thousands that are pressed at a time some will work well above the “standard” while others will be border line. The clock speed is determined by what will yield the maximum amount of CPU’s that will be usable from the die in addition to being competitive in the sector the chip is targeted toward.

A good an example of this would be the lower clocked Intel i7 9xx series chips that are conservatively rated below 3GHz but have been known to overclock with ease to 4GHz+.

 

[JCitron]

CPU’s are very conservatively rated allowing the highest yields from a die. Out of the thousands that are pressed at a time some will work well above the “standard” while others will be border line. The clock speed is determined by what will yield the maximum amount of CPU’s that will be usable from the die in addition to being competitive in the sector the chip is targeted toward.

A good an example of this would be the lower clocked Intel i7 9xx series chips that are conservatively rated below 3GHz but have been known to overclock with ease to 4GHz+.

This is correct, however you're be lucky to be able to overclock the lower frequency chips because they are of lower quality. They passed the manufacturing QC, but at a lower speed, and are spec'd out that way for a reason. Running them at a higher speed, only opens up the possibility of a failure because they weren't meant for this.

One of the interesting things about the chip manufacturing process is as the model becomes more mature, the lower speed processors are nearly as close in quality as the higher speed rated ones. In other words they share the same high stepping number. This most likely why your 8 year-old P4's are still operating well even though they are overclocked.

John

 

[djt]

however you're be lucky to be able to overclock the lower frequency chips because they are of lower quality. They passed the manufacturing QC, but at a lower speed, and are spec'd out that way for a reason. Running them at a higher speed, only opens up the possibility of a failure because they weren't meant for this.

John

Really, how about those cheap i7 920’s that will easily do 4GHz on stock voltage?

How about the new socket 1155 CPU’s that Intel just released targeted at the “mainstream/low cost” segment that many are getting 4.5GHz+ out of without any trouble?


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=59

This most likely why your 8 year-old P4's are still operating well even though they are overclocked.

Actually both were from an early batch of Pentium 4’s from 2002.