Rail Gets Boost From USA Oil Production

[cascaderailroad]

One reason why the locos uncoupled from rest of the train is because the tankcars had shelf type couplers, the locomotive and the car placed in between the locos and tank cars did not. In pictures of the derailment all of the tankcars are lined up together and not scattered about.John

Shelf couplers were invented to clasp couplers together, so that they would not climb over the next coupler in front of it, and puncture the next tankcar in line ... the "boxcar chain reaction" of a zig-zag accordian derailment, means that the consist folded over, and over, upon itself, just like an accordian does when it is squeeshed. Rarely does a derailment scatter all over creation ... and almost always this condenced zig-zag of crumpled, folded railcars occurs in almost all cases.

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
Apologies for the delay in replying to this thread but we have been away over the weekend watching the premiership football and generally enjoying ourselves. Great stuff this retired life, well semi-retired anyway.

I read that it was a 1.8% grade, and the runaway consist may have been traveling far in excess of 45 mph ... some things will never be known for sure ... the exact location of the locos on the grade ... where exactly the runaway railcars became decoupled from the locos, and why they became decoulpled from the locos ... as the locos were (In Fact) no where near, or in the scene, of the balled up mess of the accordianed tankcars.

Cascaderailroad with regard to your statement that “some things will never be known for sure”, well if you had ever been involved in an accident investigation you would be amazed at just what a team of investigators with their various individual skills can derive from an accident scene on a sure basis.

The exact location of the locos prior to the runaway would probably be easy enough to establish as there was a fire on one of the locomotives which was attended by the local fire service. As the railway company have admitted that the locomotive while running was venting burning engine oil and diesel fuel there would be doubtless burn marks and residue on the track and trackside at the place where the engine had been left running.

The fire service would undoubtedly have used dry foam to extinguish the fire when they attended which again would have left chemical residue at the trackside. So, to establish the exact position of the locomotives prior to the runaway would undoubtedly be a simple process of examining the track in the area where it is known they were left braked and running for the night.

With regard to the speed of the consist at the time of the derailment that, also can be established using mathematical equations. The number of handbrakes set would be known as those handbrakes would still be in the applied position even after the accident. Therefore you can then mathematically work out the amount of resistance those handbrakes gave versus the gradient as the train rolled away and gained speed. You are also able to mathematically establish the rate of “brake fade” due to excessive heating during the runaway.

Therefore from all the foregoing it can be confidently established how many handbrakes were set, the rate of brake fade and the temperatures reached by those brakes during the runaway. From that you can again mathematically establish the speed the consist would have achieved at the place of the derailment.

You would also know the applied brake temperatures at the time of the derailment and whether those temperatures where high enough to cause fire on the actual brakes or wheel bearings etc. If fire is established to have taken place in the foregoing you can also establish whether that was the ignition source for the explosive type fire which erupted following the tanks splitting on impact following their derailment as that would bring about the venting hydrogen sulphide which would be the only element in cargo that could cause an explosive type fire similar to the one which occurred.

As johnnyC1 would say, it’s not rocket science you just have to do the maths. However, I do not know whether he meant it in the above context.

Bill

 

[cascaderailroad]

When railcar wheelsets and couplers are thrown 100' distant, a crater in the earth, in all directions, and crumpled railcars are melted beyond all recognition, all that is left is a twisted mass of melted burnt out steel, and high-tech "CSI" accident investigators with all their calculators and high-tech accident simulators, they can safely conclude: "Yup, the whole shebang was going real fast, and derailed all over smitherines ... now we need a scapegoat to pin the whole mess on" ... "Quick, think up something that doesn't sound like a lie, something the press will believe".

The loco that had a small electrical fire, was put out with one small fire extinguisher, and no fuel or oil was ignited. Also the locos slid down the tracks, to some unknown location, mid-point on the grade, and decoupled far distant the actual electrical fire scene. This is Canada that surveyed the accident scene, and being RR private property, only accident investigators explicitly authorized by the RR would be allowed to examine the tracks, wreckage, and equipment. You know that they will undoubtedly fabricate as good a believable facsimile as they can, on the accident report.

 

[JohnnyC1]

Shelf couplers were invented to clasp couplers together, so that they would not climb over the next coupler in front of it, and puncture the next tankcar in line ... the "boxcar chain reaction" of a zig-zag accordian derailment, means that the consist folded over, and over, upon itself, just like an accordian does when it is squeeshed. Rarely does a derailment scatter all over creation ... and almost always this condenced zig-zag of crumpled, folded railcars occurs in almost all cases.

Not true, do the research.

Canada Crash

Not zig-zag, just a pile up

Maybe you did not know this from the "Star Canada":

Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railways chair Ed Burkhardt said the engineer found a Trackmobile, a vehicle that can pull several cars at a time, and went to the rear of the train.

He hooked up several cars, all the lightweight vehicle for hauling rail cars can pull, and moved them away from the wreckage, Burkhardt said.



He returned once more, pulling a total of nine from the disaster site.


John

 

[JohnnyC1]

Hi everybody.
Apologies for the delay in replying to this thread but we have been away over the weekend watching the premiership football and generally enjoying ourselves. Great stuff this retired life, well semi-retired anyway.



Cascaderailroad with regard to your statement that “some things will never be known for sure”, well if you had ever been involved in an accident investigation you would be amazed at just what a team of investigators with their various individual skills can derive from an accident scene on a sure basis.

The exact location of the locos prior to the runaway would probably be easy enough to establish as there was a fire on one of the locomotives which was attended by the local fire service. As the railway company have admitted that the locomotive while running was venting burning engine oil and diesel fuel there would be doubtless burn marks and residue on the track and trackside at the place where the engine had been left running.

The fire service would undoubtedly have used dry foam to extinguish the fire when they attended which again would have left chemical residue at the trackside. So, to establish the exact position of the locomotives prior to the runaway would undoubtedly be a simple process of examining the track in the area where it is known they were left braked and running for the night.

With regard to the speed of the consist at the time of the derailment that, also can be established using mathematical equations. The number of handbrakes set would be known as those handbrakes would still be in the applied position even after the accident. Therefore you can then mathematically work out the amount of resistance those handbrakes gave versus the gradient as the train rolled away and gained speed. You are also able to mathematically establish the rate of “brake fade” due to excessive heating during the runaway.

Therefore from all the foregoing it can be confidently established how many handbrakes were set, the rate of brake fade and the temperatures reached by those brakes during the runaway. From that you can again mathematically establish the speed the consist would have achieved at the place of the derailment.

You would also know the applied brake temperatures at the time of the derailment and whether those temperatures where high enough to cause fire on the actual brakes or wheel bearings etc. If fire is established to have taken place in the foregoing you can also establish whether that was the ignition source for the explosive type fire which erupted following the tanks splitting on impact following their derailment as that would bring about the venting hydrogen sulphide which would be the only element in cargo that could cause an explosive type fire similar to the one which occurred.

As johnnyC1 would say, it’s not rocket science you just have to do the maths. However, I do not know whether he meant it in the above context.

Bill

Bill, that's exactly what I meant!

John

 

[cascaderailroad]

Do research on what ... shelf couplers, or catastrophic zig-zag boxcar chain reaction effect derailments, which is called a "catastrophic slack action run in derailment".

I can't wait to read the official Canadian FRA report (when it is done being fabricated, 1 1/2 years from now). it should be good bathroom reading material.

 

[kws4000]

Given that the only specifics mentioned of the couplers are "shelf", I would gamble that they are not "tightlock", or AAR Type H couplers, but rather older Type F or E with shelf attachments. As it sounds, the only help tightlocks would give would be a reduction in the probability of accordian-ing. This was aptly demonstrated when NS' executive train derailed; all salvageable cars were equipped with Type H, while those that were scrapped did not. IMO, it would not be impossible to add shelves to the Type H, despite the fact that such feature is already implemented to some extent on the Type H.

 

[JohnnyC1]

Do research on what ... shelf couplers, or catastrophic zig-zag boxcar chain reaction effect derailments, which is called a "catastrophic slack action run in derailment".

I can't wait to read the official Canadian FRA report (when it is done being fabricated, 1 1/2 years from now). it should be good bathroom reading material.

So, why would the report be fabricated, on what facts do you base your statement?

Johbn

 

[cascaderailroad]

Because of huge sums money that must be paid out, that insurance companies are forced to pay out, and they want to keep the billions of dollars owed, kept down to a mere couple million settlement, in an early admission of guilt/wrongful death settlement.

Because that is what they do best, not be cause they can ... but because they do ... do this !

This is the biggest case since the Erin Brockovitch court case.

A pristine lakeside town: Lac Magantic (Lake Magestic) turned into a Chernobyl toxic chemical wasteland.

You don't really believe everything you read ... do you ?

 

[JohnnyC1]

Hey man, all you have given is your opinion, no facts. You are running off at the mouth as what you are saying is written in stone. Everyone has an opinion, but back it up with facts. Don't you know everything comes out in the wash, that what was dark will be made light. Nobody get's away, they may get by (buy), but nobody get's away forever, never!

End of discussion!
John

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.

When railcar wheelsets and couplers are thrown 100' distant, a crater in the earth, in all directions, and crumpled railcars are melted beyond all recognition, all that is left is a twisted mass of melted burnt out steel, and high-tech "CSI" accident investigators with all their calculators and high-tech accident simulators, they can safely conclude: "Yup, the whole shebang was going real fast, and derailed all over smitherines ... now we need a scapegoat to pin the whole mess on" ... "Quick, think up something that doesn't sound like a lie, something the press will believe".

The loco that had a small electrical fire, was put out with one small fire extinguisher, and no fuel or oil was ignited. Also the locos slid down the tracks, to some unknown location, mid-point on the grade, and decoupled far distant the actual electrical fire scene. This is Canada that surveyed the accident scene, and being RR private property, only accident investigators explicitly authorized by the RR would be allowed to examine the tracks, wreckage, and equipment. You know that they will undoubtedly fabricate as good a believable facsimile as they can, on the accident report.

Cascaderailroad, with the greatest of respect I find the first paragraph of your above posting a complete unintelligible rant. Could you please explain why the accident investigation team would wish to find “scapegoats” or to dream up excuses that do not sound like a lie. The Canadian authorities and the accident investigation team are neutral bodies in this tragedy whose job is to find the root cause of the accident, bring forward measures that will prevent a similar incident occurring and recommend for prosecution of any person(s) they feel may have acted in a negligent or criminal manner which then contributed to the disaster.

With regard to the fire on the locomotive I would again have to ask where you get your information from. A considerable number of press releases have attributed a statement by the chairman of the now defunct railway company that he has withdrawn his allegations that the fire services were responsible for the accident. He now acknowledges that the locomotive had a damaged piston which caused it to smoke heavily and shower sparks and ignited oil backwards over the tanktcars while they were in transit. He now advises that the engine should have been shut down much earlier in the day when that was first reported folowing the breakout of an earlier fire.

With regard to your statement in the second paragraph, advising that “only accident investigators explicitly authorized by the RR would be allowed to examine the tracks, wreckage, and equipment” , again with the greatest of respect I have to wonder if cascaderailroad you just dream up these things. Immediately following the accident the Canadian safety authorities declared the area a major incident scene quickly followed by a possible criminal investigation scene. The foregoing immediately handed over all authority to the police, local and national authorities with responsibility for safety and welfare of all those affected. All those who may have any involvement with the railway company or with responsibility for the movement of the train would be debarred from entire area of investigation. The railway company can have no say in the appointment of investigators, their actions or conclusions.

An accident investigation team will very often allow employees of any company involved in an accident or their representatives to witness the collection of evidence, the methods involved in collecting evidence and make statements as conclusions are being drawn up. However, they are never allowed to become an official part of the investigation as should they wish to challenge anything that the investigation team carries out or concludes then they will have their day in court should prosecution come about.

With regard cascaderailroad to the freight cars being a twisted, burnt mass which no evidence can be drawn from can I suggest you watch a few episodes of “air crash investigations” to see how evidence and conclusions can be drawn from those twisted, burnt masses often scattered over the many miles. That is air transport but the same techniques are used in rail and major road accidents. The emphasis is always the same and that is to stop similar accidents occurring. For let us not forget that it is thought that 50 people died in this incident including children asleep in their beds.

Bill

 

[kws4000]

The Law is The Law, & you can't change It

With regard cascaderailroad to the freight cars being a twisted, burnt mass which no evidence can be drawn from can I suggest you watch a few episodes of “air crash investigations” to see how evidence and conclusions can be drawn from those twisted, burnt masses often scattered over the many miles. That is air transport but the same techniques are used in rail and major road accidents. The emphasis is always the same and that is to stop similar accidents occurring. For let us not forget that it is thought that 50 people died in this incident including children asleep in their beds.

Bill

Absolutely. F=ma, plus calculus, equals truth.
How do you think we figured out it was a brittle gasket that caused the explosion on the Challenger? Some years ago, there was another Canadian wreck where it was discovered that there was a hotbox underneath the "twisted burnt mass which no evidence can be drawn from". The collapse of the Twin Towers was not directly caused by the planes and terrorists themselves, but rather the combustion of jet fuel that softened the beams that failed and added increasingly higher loads to other beams that were not designed for such shock; it that wasn't a "twisted burnt mass which no evidence can be drawn from", I don't know what is.