Prototype Operations in Trainz

[OldSalt]

I am working in 2009, build 40088.

And if the content I need to modify is Auran created? Some of their traincars do not have catagory-class, which is essential to determine the type of car.

David

I hope this will work in Trainz 2010, you might even thing of contacting them so it is built into Trainz 2010. Just an idea.

On another note, how does one change the rolling stock for the trains that come in on your portals? I checked the files that came with your system, and the route in surveyor.

 

[Dap]

I hope this will work in Trainz 2010, you might even thing of contacting them so it is built into Trainz 2010. Just an idea.

On another note, how does one change the rolling stock for the trains that come in on your portals? I checked the files that came with your system, and the route in surveyor.

In Surveyor, under Main Menu, select Edit Session. In the window that appears, highlight the Portal Schedule rule and click on edit. There you can remove and add individual cars to a scheduled train.

 

[danny5]

Have i missed something is one of your (DAP) route on the DLS ?
Thanks Danny5

 

[Dap]

Danny,

Not yet. I am putting the finishing touches on the Huron Central with permission from its creator. I'll post here when it is available on the DLS. And I am still learning how to package a route so it will include EVERY asset.

David

 

[danny5]

Thanks Dap
Danny5

 

[OldSalt]

In Surveyor, under Main Menu, select Edit Session. In the window that appears, highlight the Portal Schedule rule and click on edit. There you can remove and add individual cars to a scheduled train.

Thanks. Will give it a shot some time tomorrow. Can't wait to try your system with the layout I am working on. I plan to have trains from your portals, come to the yard's inbound track, unhook the loco and go to the turntable. once an out bound train has been made up, put the loco back out put it on the head of it, and send it back out to the portal. While the whole time 2 short pass trains will be running on the layout stopping at all the stations. As well as once an hour a thought fright will pass along the route from a Trainz portal, or a drag fright. All while one runs a Wayfright of what the incoming trains brought in.

 

[Dap]

Sounds like a fun operations plan.

From the discussion in this thread, I'm considering adding a random element to the system. This would make every seesion a bit different in that the destination for each car on the route at start-up would be assigned a random destination rather than the same destination every time. . . a minor detail, but I think it might be worth the effort.

David

 

[mikemike]

just to help me understand the problem

this is idealized, but is the problem something like this?

an industry has a product. the product varies or not, but the product needs to be moved out of the industry and into commerce.

certain products are cheaper or easier to send by rail. that's us.

SETUP:
private:
the foundation:
register products; register cars.
assign product to car.
register places on the layout.
create empty tag, a marker for car.


the mechanics:
assign tag to car; assign place to car's tag.

OPERATION:

public:
utility:
from shipper, get call for car.
assign car to shipper.

railroad:
locate car, route car to destination.

shipper:
load car.

railroad:

pick up car and send to destination.
release car from service.
...

how to implement? 'assign tag' -- this would mean associating a marker with a single rolling stock unit, and, or, a collection of units?

'legal loads' -- the railcar must be compatable to the commodity: the shipper might make the wrong choice of car.

from trainz, find a universal set of markers for car, for commodity.
from you, create an identity for all places on the route... with symbol or
common name.

...

 

[Dap]

MikeMike,

An interesting definition and solution to the problem, but I have taken a somewhat different approach. Check out the user's manual CMTMSystem4 User's Manual
My solution completely ignores the Trainz Way Bill and Commoditiy system. My solution focuses on car movements and traffic patterns. I assume that you are modeling prototype operation and as such, very few if any car movements are from one on-route industry to another on-route industry. So, most inbound freight to local industies originates off route and most outbound shippments from local industries are destined off route. This breaks the vicious intert-twining of on route industies Trainz loves to promote. Users have gone crazy trying to fine tune this process. In the real world, this industry interaction is not the responsibility of the railroad. It may be fun for a computer game, but I am more concerned with simulating prototype operations.

I have taken the approach that an industry has inbound freight, outbound freight or both. Rather than identifying the commodity that is being shipped, I am more concerned with where it is coming from and it's destination.

So industry A recieves 1 boxcar of freight on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and an open bottom dump hopper of coal to keep the boilers going on Tuesdays. The Monday boxcar comes from points west, the Tuesday hopper car comes from an interchange with a foreign road, the Wednesday and Thursday boxcars come from points east.

If sorted by source we have the following:

West Portal - one boxcar on Monday
East Portal - one box car on Wednesday and Thursday
Foreign Road Portal - one open hopper on Tuesday

All the car movements for all the industries are sorted for the given day of operation. There may be 7 boxcars from the west destined for various industries. When the first train of the session is emitted from the west portal, the first 7 boxcars that are emited will be assigned to the various local destinations. It makes little difference which boxcars those may be, but they should probably be from western roads relative to your road.

There need not be meticulous matching of commodity types, capacities, etc.

When the car is delivered to the industry and it is unloaded, it is then returned via a route prescribed in the database.

You can use inteactive industries to load and unload open cars to keep the simulation as acurate as possible, but that is the only reason I use interactive industies.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

David

 

[OldSalt]

Sounds like a fun operations plan.

From the discussion in this thread, I'm considering adding a random element to the system. This would make every seesion a bit different in that the destination for each car on the route at start-up would be assigned a random destination rather than the same destination every time. . . a minor detail, but I think it might be worth the effort.

David

Yes very much so. I know in the begining, I will only do a Monday set up, so this way each Monday would not be the same thing over and over again. Sounds like a great Idea. It will keep the Scenario fresh.

 

[OldSalt]

In Surveyor, under Main Menu, select Edit Session. In the window that appears, highlight the Portal Schedule rule.

I do NOT have this rule, and it does not show up on the D/L Station.

 

[JAGG]

Some very prototype action

FYI - I send a link to the very prototype functions of the prototype content. Author is Draco, maybe he would appreciate Your comments&opinions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbcyjYe-tds
Do not ask him for sharing anything with You, he is creating almost exclusively for himself and also the shown crane is not finshed at all!

 

[Dap]

I do NOT have this rule, and it does not show up on the D/L Station.

I'm sorry, my mistake - it is the:

Portal timetable rule,<kuid2:61392:2002:1>

should be on the DLS.

David

 

[mikemike]

oops, sorry, DAP, i don't really have a solution -- i was just tryng to work out the granular level of what things would look like; it's supposed to be a kind of look at what's involved in making a protypical structure. your system is direct and to the point: a shipper would order a railcar and we'd supply it, and then pick it up -- and that's actually how they run the railroad, yes. the pipe maker doesn't go to the next door steel mill, who goes to the over the hill -- but in the route -- coal mine... ok, yes... it's route-funny to do things that way. you can order a covered hopper, two-bay ps2, to haul away my granular model! : )

and, is your beta still available to try?

MikeMike,

An interesting definition and solution to the problem, but I have taken a somewhat different approach. Check out the user's manual CMTM User's Manual September 09 release

My solution completely ignores the Trainz Way Bill and Commoditiy system. My solution focuses on car movements and traffic patterns. I assume that you are modeling prototype operation and as such, very few if any car movements are from one on-route industry to another on-route industry. So, most inbound freight to local industies originates off route and most outbound shippments from local industries are destined off route. This breaks the vicious intert-twining of on route industies Trainz loves to promote. Users have gone crazy trying to fine tune this process. In the real world, this industry interaction is not the responsibility of the railroad. It may be fun for a computer game, but I am more concerned with simulating prototype operations.

I have taken the approach that an industry has inbound freight, outbound freight or both. Rather than identifying the commodity that is being shipped, I am more concerned with where it is coming from and it's destination.

So industry A recieves 1 boxcar of freight on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and an open bottom dump hopper of coal to keep the boilers going on Tuesdays. The Monday boxcar comes from points west, the Tuesday hopper car comes from an interchange with a foreign road, the Wednesday and Thursday boxcars come from points east.

If sorted by source we have the following:

West Portal - one boxcar on Monday
East Portal - one box car on Wednesday and Thursday
Foreign Road Portal - one open hopper on Tuesday

All the car movements for all the industries are sorted for the given day of operation. There may be 7 boxcars from the west destined for various industries. When the first train of the session is emitted from the west portal, the first 7 boxcars that are emited will be assigned to the various local destinations. It makes little difference which boxcars those may be, but they should probably be from western roads relative to your road.

There need not be meticulous matching of commodity types, capacities, etc.

When the car is delivered to the industry and it is unloaded, it is then returned via a route prescribed in the database.

You can use inteactive industries to load and unload open cars to keep the simulation as acurate as possible, but that is the only reason I use interactive industies.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

David

 

[Dap]

Well, keeping the system direct and to the point made it feasible to program. A very important feature since this was my first programming project. I'd love to see more experienced programmers give a run at a project like this. Maybe over time, we could evolve our results into something that does much more.

If you'd like to give it a try, here is a one board Beta route that will give you a sample of how it works. Your feedback would be appreciated.

Hither & Yon Route, Session & CMTM System
Hither & Yon Route Dependancies
Hither & Yon Session Dependancies

David

 

[mikemike]

got 'um. looking forward.

yes, i think you're right to do this as you did. having a notice saying 'joe's mill needs fifty sticks' is a task for maybe the railroad's salesmen, talking them out of trucking those sticks in. and, what they want is a car of sticks and that's the point, since there won't be one sitting around if they haven't ordered it -- though... well, yes, not typically from any cars on sidings.

 

[boleyd]

Role Played?

In the operation of the virtual railroad what "role" is the user playing? I have no background in rail operation so I am not sure of the position of the user.

Also, there are some stages where the user must intervene and click on a field. I assume that defines the role I can't quite grasp.

The only thing that puts me off a bit is having to personally do something (click on a menu) to keep the railroad running. However, if this is a prototypical role someone would play then it is understandable.

 

[OldSalt]

I'm sorry, my mistake - it is the:

Portal timetable rule,<kuid2:61392:2002:1>

should be on the DLS.

David

Ok got that rule, it was in the place you said, but when I went to edit it, all it said was "Portal timetable rule" that's it nothing else there. Then if I click on edit script all I see is about 5 lines none of it dealing with what rolling stock is making up any trains. Just stuff about .gs files. game objects, etc.

 

[Dap]

In the operation of the virtual railroad what "role" is the user playing? I have no background in rail operation so I am not sure of the position of the user.

I like to assume multiple roles in the operations. When I mouse click to throw a track switch, I am the brakeman. When I ease open the throttle I am the engineer. When I am reading my orders, checking my consist and trying to decide what the next logical move should be, I am the conductor. If I am assigning new directions for an AI train, I am the Dispatcher. If I am just watching the trains go by, I am a railfan - a semi official rail ops position

Also, there are some stages where the user must intervene and click on a field. I assume that defines the role I can't quite grasp.

If you would like to learn more about railroad operations, may I suggest Model Railroad Operations SIG

Also a discussion forum Ry-ops-industrialSIG A forum for rail modellers to discuss railway operations

There is also a book that is hard to find but the best and most complete, "Let's Operate A Railroad" by Roxbury. This book was published in 1957 and is long out of print. There are other resources listed on the Ry-ops site.

The only thing that puts me off a bit is having to personally do something (click on a menu) to keep the railroad running. However, if this is a prototypical role someone would play then it is understandable.

I'm sure there may be a few screen clicks required in Trainz that have no direct prototype eqivalence, but then there are a lot of prototype things that are left out, such as all the paperwork needed to operate a railroad. I think you will find that in model railroading, we tend to include the things that we think are fun and leave out the mundane.

Hope you learn to enjoy prototype rail-ops.

David

 

[Dap]

Ok got that rule, it was in the place you said, but when I went to edit it, all it said was "Portal timetable rule" that's it nothing else there. Then if I click on edit script all I see is about 5 lines none of it dealing with what rolling stock is making up any trains. Just stuff about .gs files. game objects, etc.

Your asset has a corrupted script file. Check your email. I sent you my copy.

David