Privatizing USA Passenger Rail

[Tokkyu40]

... Privatized High Speed Rail is out of the question because it is not possible to raise the capital to build and operate such a system in the private sector. In addition the fares that would have to be charged to cover operating costs and earn a return on such an investment would not produce enough ridership to make the venture worthwhile...

The relationship between fares and return is difficult. How soon do you need the investment to pay off, and by what degree? The TGV recovered the initial construction costs in 15 years, but what company will wait even 5 years for a return these days?
Also, it would be vital to use the stations as revenue generating sources. The Dalas DART system was calculated to have recovered the cost of construction in increased economic activity within 5-10 years, but that went directly to the city, so the system relies on "subsidies" of the money it generated to keep operating. The train would need its own clear revenue stream.
The most practical solution might be a public-private partnership, where the government helps fund construction, then takes a cut of the profits.

Claude

 

[J_Taylor]

Im for privatizing our passenger rail, as long as we also privatize the highway system(we give it HUGE subsidies) and Air travel. Level the playing field and see how things go.

 

[RooRocz]

Nationalize everything. All property should be owned by the state. Individualism is a parasitic influence on the progress of a nation. All should work for the common good.

 

[rjhowie]

What a daft statement that last one is. Do hope it was mean to be satirical?We used to have a lot of nationalisation here and much of it led to bloating, over-manned and stifled. In the context over the pond in the USA you have lost too much of the passenger world and I suspect the railcompanies would baulk at a return to it unlike here.

 

[StorkNest]

Im for privatizing our passenger rail, as long as we also privatize the highway system(we give it HUGE subsidies) and Air travel. Level the playing field and see how things go.

The highway system is subsidized for national defense in emergencies.

Nationalize everything. All property should be owned by the state. Individualism is a parasitic influence on the progress of a nation. All should work for the common good.

Ha! :hehe: Not only would it not happen, that is a political subject like holding up a sign saying, "I'm looking for a good fight!"

 

[Euphod]

I suppose if the US embraced communism that would end all those people trying to get into Cuba...

 

[StorkNest]

Someone actually wants to plan it....

Found this while checking Yahoo Groups.
https://www.examiner.com/train-trav...posal-for-chicago-to-new-york-high-speed-rail

They actually have a website.
http://www.nychicagorr.org/

I am not sure on the route but that could be because I am New York Central biased. Might also be to minimize some potential conflict with Amtrak on the same rails. I do not know much about how well passenger rail could run from Cleveland to New York by-way-of Pennsylvania as opposed to the old Water Level Route.

Anyone in Chicago bored this Saturday might have something to do now.

 

[cascaderailroad]

It won't be the Harrisburg Pittsburgh Line ! The plan was proposed in 1907, and in the 1930's ... all far too expensive. Massive tunneling projects, broadening curves, having a dedicated, non-freight, passenger only, right of way, without grade crossings would cost trillions and take decades ... PA lost its Federal funding last year, and this year will be doubtful also.

 

[bl4882]

I have an even better idea. http://www.wx4.org/to/foam/warstories/helixtram.html

Bernie

 

[cascaderailroad]

Beam me over to Moes' Tavern :hehe: ZZZoookK ... like a vacuum tube capsule delivery system used at drive through banks.

 

[Euphod]

Mike Lee added that: “True electric HSR, when applied properly, is a superior substitute for gas guzzling, polluting airplanes.”

Yeah, because the coal plants supplying the electricity don't pollute. Idiots!

 

[cascaderailroad]

Unless they are Nooclure ...and they spring a leak

 

[PerRock]

In the HSR world I drafted up a quick map a while ago showing where I thought HSR should run in the US. My proposed CHI-NYC line would pass thru Toledo, Cleveland & Philly. For an average length of 780mph.

Google Map
Blue is proper HSR, having it's own dedicated ROW
Red is "HSR" running on regular lines, similar to here in MI & on the Cascades
Green/Black is the current NEC, it would see infrastructure improvements, including dedicated HSR lines.
Pink is dedicated HSR lines, in which I couldn't decide which route is better.
Regular 'slow-speed' lines would still exist. I just didn't put them on that map.

The fastest the Shinkansen reaches in regular service is 186mph. Which if it could run at that speed the whole way would take a little over 4hrs. In reality I would probably see it taking closer to 6 or 7, due to it not being able to run at those speeds the whole way, having to accelerate & decelerate for the few major stations.
An Airline can fly between those two cities in 2hrs. However they say you should arrive at O'Hare 90mins prior to flight so thats now 3.5hrs. Give you another hour to get to O'Hare from the loop, 4.5hrs. Half an hour for parking; 5hrs.

We're still slower then an Airline.

If we ran express from CHI to NYC we could probably match airline times.

I chose the Shinkansen for speed because it is faster in regular service. the TGV records are not on regular runs.

peter

 

[cascaderailroad]

I know alot of sparce few people would take rail transportation to Allentown to gamble in the casino, and the Pottsville, Shamokin, Bellefonte, Clearfield people who own houses, and the steep mountains, might throw a slight monkey wrench in the works.

As Chris Columbo once said: The Worlda She'sa Nota Flata ...

Who exactly is going to ride these passenger railroads ? Since the automoble became the choice means ... there is no going back to trains. Unless we could put our cars on Shamtrak Auto Trains.

 

[pware]

For an outsider (even a foreigner) this has been a fascinating thread - particularly since I will be visiting Canada and the USA in late April and throughout May travelling extensively (where possible) on passenger rail. The few internal flights I will take will be where passenger rail travel is either not available or not convenient. I will be travelling on the Amtrak Acelia service to see how US "high speed rail" compares with my experiences in Japan a fair few years ago.

With a few days stopover in each of 8 major cities I will be taking some day trips on the local commuter and regional train services.

One thing that my preliminary research has revealed is that a number of cities have "rush hour" single direction only rail services - for example Toronto's private GO Transit runs 5-6 commuter trains on each line into Toronto each weekday morning rush hour (no weekend or "off peak" rail services at all - buses are used instead) and a similar number of services out of Toronto each weekday evening rush hour - with no return rail trips in each case.

Another thing, which has been pointed out by many posters here, is the seeming lack of co-ordination and co-operation between the different systems. Philadelphia as just one example seems to have a plethora of commuter rail transit companies (SEPTA, PATCO, NJ Transit) and not always sharing stations and tracks.

It will be an interesting trip and I will report on my observations.

Peter Ware

 

[B1boy]

I consider myself a Libertarian Conservative,but i don't think it's the right time to privatize Amtrak now.There's just no interest right now for passenger rail until the right infrastructure is in place like high-speed rail.Then maybe in about 50 years,pending are financial budget,there could be a private Amtrak somewhere down the road.But i don't see it right now.

 

[paulzmay]

Mike Lee added that: “True electric HSR, when applied properly, is a superior substitute for gas guzzling, polluting airplanes.”

Yeah, because the coal plants supplying the electricity don't pollute. Idiots!

The point is that HSR uses a LOT less energy per passenger than air or auto, and also benefits from any move towards renewable or (dare I say it now) nuclear power on the grid. So it is superior, just not perfect...

Paul

 

[cascaderailroad]

The problem with passenger rail service in the US is that trains do not go to, nor stop where you need to get to. And they run at very awkward hours of the day. If one wanted to go to Pittsburgh from Phila you would have to leave at very early hours of the morning, and arrive there very late in the afternoon ... then what do you do when you get there ... rent a car ? At the termius the city transit system would not take you to where you want to go. Things in the US are placed very far away from RR stops, and commuting is a many hour ordeal, taking 6 forms of transportation to get to your location.

But my main question is ... if there were 10 trains to Chicago per day from Phila ... who, and how many, would be riding them ? Assde from Jimmy going to vist Aunt Nellie in Denver. Not many people are willing to take an unergonomic train to get somwhere ... even if it did go fast.

 

[Retro00064]

So, we might need to encourage the gas stations to gouge their prices, so that commuters will take the train just because it is cheaper!

Regards.

 

[Euphod]

Gas stations sell a commodity that fluctuates in price due to changes in the world market, and between Bamalamadingdong's lack of a domestic energy policy that favours the US economy, and the current state of affairs in the Middle East, urging them to gouge prices will not be required.