POLL: What are the pros and cons of TS 2022 PE vs TANE SP4?

[JonMyrlennBailey]

My PROS:

-Driver Center
-cute animated driver figures including some dumb blonde chicks (some of these figures do not at all look like real-world train crewmen)
-track path displays
-the included West From Denver route
-driver dashboard overlay with moving map that shows speed limits, gradients, signals, etc.: you can actually see a graphic of the gradients as they roll by
-Classic Surveyor available
-the new Traffic Carz in 3D: many types of motor vehicles for motor roads- trailer trucks, cop cars, ambulances, school buses, cement mixers, RV's, UPS vans, police trikes, dudes on motorcycles, etc.

My CONS:

-drivers who back up when they are not supposed to
-maximized window issue in Edit Session making Schedule Library and Trigger Multiple Signals useless
-West From Denver route takes a lot of editing work to fine-tune it and make track work look neat
-drivers still let go the throttle briefly whenever crossing track marks on schedules
-stars observed in night sky even during storms and rainy weather
-lack of lightning flashes to accompany thunder sounds
-rain pitter-patter sounds excessively loud
-there seems to be no TRIP ODOMETER for driving
-the Underground Boundary Trigger object not working the same as it did in TANE: yes, it still stops rain drops (not rain sounds) inside tunnels but unlike it did in TANE, it has no effect on camera modes: in TANE, this object on the track at the portal mouths on either end would trigger the camera to go automatically inside the cab from lineside or chase modes, and vice-versa: I never understood why the CHASE camera never stayed active while the train was going underground anyway

<kuid:76656:60100> Underground Boundary Trigger by boat

 

[PWeiser]

<snip>
-the Underground Boundary Trigger object not working the same as it did in TANE: yes, it still stops rain drops (not rain sounds) inside tunnels but unlike it did in TANE, it has no effect on camera modes: in TANE, this object on the track at the portal mouths on either end would trigger the camera to go automatically inside the cab from lineside or chase modes, and vice-versa: I never understood why the CHASE camera never stayed active while the train was going underground anyway

<kuid:76656:60100> Underground Boundary Trigger by boat

In legacy versions, the chase camera remained active but took station just above the (leading) traincar inside tunnels - somewhere in the middle of the pantographs for electrics. Better or worse than disabling? A strange location for riders, anyway

 

[ajrf]

Pros: -Track-lod-tree splines are rendered properly unlike T:ANE
-Surveyor 2.0 makes terrain creation much easier than in the classic version, not to mention that you can create parking lots and other scenery in seconds by copying and "painting".
Cons: -Camera too sensitive to mouse (especially with the latest patch).
-AJS Script doesn't work properly particularly on trains.

 

[JonMyrlennBailey]

In legacy versions, the chase camera remained active but took station just above the (leading) traincar inside tunnels - somewhere in the middle of the pantographs for electrics. Better or worse than disabling? A strange location for riders, anyway

Depending upon your particular loco content, the in-cab camera can even be moved to the pilot on some engines to get a totally awesome unobstructed view of the track ahead. I have a payware steam locomotive that can put the cab camera close to the drivers and side rods in action, on the front pilot or outside of the cab windows to see the train crewmen hanging their heads outside the windows. All these views work inside the tunnels as well. In TS 2022 PE, the camera still gets perched atop the lead locomotive cab by default when going inside a tunnel unless the camera is in cab mode. I liked it when the underground trigger automatically moved to in-cab views inside tunnels and back to chase or lineside again out of tunnels. Whenever the chase camera gets close to high terrain, as at a tunnel portal, it will shift upward and look down. I hate this because I like to keep the chase camera close to the track facing the approaching train with the bright headlight beaming me in the eyeballs while lineside cameras are active. When there is no lineside camera in range, views will default to chase mode. I habitually place lineside cameras, set on Tracking, at grade crossings to hear the doppler effect of passing trains blowing the whistle through. The bell sounds and flashing red lights at crossings are dramatic, especially at night. These railroad sounds and sights add a sense of danger and tension.

 

[PWeiser]

Depending upon your particular loco content, the in-cab camera can even be moved to the pilot on some engines to get a totally awesome unobstructed view of the track ahead. I have a payware steam locomotive that can put the cab camera close to the drivers and side rods in action, on the front pilot or outside of the cab windows to see the train crewmen hanging their heads outside the windows. All these views work inside the tunnels as well. In TS 2022 PE, the camera still gets perched atop the lead locomotive cab by default when going inside a tunnel unless the camera is in cab mode. I liked it when the underground trigger automatically moved to in-cab views inside tunnels and back to chase or lineside again out of tunnels. Whenever the chase camera gets close to high terrain, as at a tunnel portal, it will shift upward and look down. I hate this because I like to keep the chase camera close to the track facing the approaching train with the bright headlight beaming me in the eyeballs while lineside cameras are active. When there is no lineside camera in range, views will default to chase mode. I habitually place lineside cameras, set on Tracking, at grade crossings to hear the doppler effect of passing trains blowing the whistle through. The bell sounds and flashing red lights at crossings are dramatic, especially at night. These railroad sounds and sights add a sense of danger and tension.

Tracking cameras inside tunnels are possible, and quite dramatic. Positioning them is a chore, though, because (at least in legacy versions) Surveyor won't place them below ground level. You have to manipulate track and terrain so as to place the camera where you want, then re-bury.

 

[lewisner]

I don't have TANE but the ability to set the height and distance values for signals is a game changer. The Tornado and HST models are about as good as it gets. The con is that Surveyor 2.0 has a steep learning curve and I'm still near the bottom of it.

 

[smyers]

Pro 22:
*Those God-awful spline ends, you know the huge white circle that obscures everything, have been, at last, replaced with a simple point.
*To be able to paint or adjust ground height in small increments is great (HD).
*All assets can rotate.
*Multiple asset selection.
There are several others.
Con 22:
*There is a 16 texture limit per baseboard with HD. Older versions is 256. Starting from scratch, you now have to be aware of the textures you're using. Not so before. Upgrading a route to HD you will lose, maybe dozens of textures. It's a colossal pain.
*The obnoxious habit of rendering assets as faulty. No fixes, substitutes or anything, just gone. In my case dozens of foliage items, engines, buildings just gone. Vacant space where there was a forest, or buildings, etc.
*I can't find a way to find a vertex height or rotate items incrementally. Same with asset height, and junction distance. You can, however, toggle between 2.0 and Classic to fix or adjust some of those issues.
There are many others.

Overall, this 22 is not the panacea they want you to think it is, IMO. I got 22 as a gift, so I'm compelled to use it. Otherwise I think I'd go back to 19.

Best,
smyers

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

Simples, TS22 is the latest. Therefore it is the best and most refined. Is it perfect, nooooooooo.

 

[pware]

@smyers, I fear you have confused TRS22PE (the subject of this thread) with Trainz Plus. HD is found in Trainz Plus only, not in TRS22PE

Pro 22:
*To be able to paint or adjust ground height in small increments is great (HD).

Con 22:
*There is a 16 texture limit per baseboard with HD. Older versions is 256. Starting from scratch, you now have to be aware of the textures you're using. Not so before. Upgrading a route to HD you will lose, maybe dozens of textures. It's a colossal pain.

The 16 texture limit is a hardware issue and is a limitation of all games/sims that use HDT or its equivalent. In some of those games/sims the limit is 8 textures. In any case Trainz Plus with the HD option has a color effect layer which can be used to overcome this limit. See the Trainz Wiki page at https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/How_to_Use_S20_Tools#.C2.A0Color_Effect_Layer.C2.A0 for the details.

*I can't find a way to find a vertex height or rotate items incrementally. Same with asset height, and junction distance. You can, however, toggle between 2.0 and Classic to fix or adjust some of those issues.

The Surveyor 2.0 Info Palette has the fine adjustment you probably need. Rotation increments of +/-1deg and position increments of +/-10cm. See https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/How_to_Use_S20_Tools#Position_Info_and_Controls for more details.

 

[smyers]

Thanks for all the tips, pware. It's actually going much better with a new route rather than rescuing an older one. Here's a look at a WIP route inspired by Approach Medium's ongoing Cross Harbor effort which also features much street running...

There are only 4 street textures here, but the new brush tools allow much greater creative freedom. With the smallest brush size, you can paint individual cobblestones.

I found the Position Controls which add a great deal of flexibility in asset placement, as with the street damage assets which have to be below the railhead but above the ground.

We'll keep at it.

Best,
smyers

 

[pware]

It's actually going much better with a new route rather than rescuing an older one.

I suspect, based on my limited experiences with HD so far, that starting a new route using HD is a better option than attempting to "retrofit" an older 5m/10m route to HD.

 

[JCitron]

I suspect, based on my limited experiences with HD so far, that starting a new route using HD is a better option than attempting to "retrofit" an older 5m/10m route to HD.

That's been my experience as well and it's also the same with upgrading a 20-year-old route to PBR textures and in particular a very large one at that. It's best to leave the ancient beasts alone and start fresh.

 

[pware]

it's also the same with upgrading a 20-year-old route to PBR textures

I did manage to do that with one of my old routes. It involved identifying every environmental texture in the route (CM did that), selecting a suitable replacement PBR texture and using the Bulk Update/Replace Tool to convert one to the other. Next I converted all the non-procedural tracks to procedural tracks via the same method. Then updated many of the older and dated scenery assets to more recent versions.

It has taken quite a while but it will be ready for release as a "new" Trainz Plus (without HD) and TRS22 route "real soon now(TM)".

 

[OldGI]

Tongue in cheek moment.
TANE:
N3V stopped "fixing" it. The warts it has don't change constantly.
It runs great on my 10 year old PC.
My eyesight isn't what it used to be. TRS22 burns my retinas out after a bit.

I like TRS22. It runs well on my laptop and PC. I just can't use it very long. I miss the rotating spline ends, I find them helpful for track spacing.

To be honest, if JointedRail new SD24s worked in TANE, I would never leave it. I just love those locomotives.

Overall, 22 does look much better than TANE. My choice comes down to old dude issues.

 

[JCitron]

I did manage to do that with one of my old routes. It involved identifying every environmental texture in the route (CM did that), selecting a suitable replacement PBR texture and using the Bulk Update/Replace Tool to convert one to the other. Next I converted all the non-procedural tracks to procedural tracks via the same method. Then updated many of the older and dated scenery assets to more recent versions.

It has taken quite a while but it will be ready for release as a "new" Trainz Plus (without HD) and TRS22 route "real soon now(TM)".

Using bulk replace to update anything on large routes is painfully slow and sometimes hangs if the whole route update is chosen. Small areas are fine and selected areas sort of works okay. That's still buggy but it's doable. This has been reported to N3V and we were told it's due to issues with our routes which isn't true because Bulk Update worked fine before they played around with adding that to Surveyor 2.0.