Odd behaviour in surveryor - TS2010-SP1

[pcas1986]

I'm getting some very strange behaviour in Surveyor when placing splines. Perhaps it has something to do with the new way Surveryor deals with routes and sessions.

I've imported (via CDP) a route and some related sessions I was developing in TS2009. Today I was adding a new station and, as part of that, added a footbridge spline and some extra track near the staton. This was done by editing the route. When I ran one of my test sessions the new splines including the footbridge were located in a completely different location and in a haphazard fashion.

My understanding is that permanent infrastucture such as buildings, track, etc were to be added into the route. Session editing is basically only for rolling stock and scenarios. I note that you can indicate that some assets can be route or session.

I don't know if I am doing something wrong or there is a bug. Is anyone else having the same issue?

TIA
Paul

 

[knight42]

I've had this once, where I added new track to the session layer instead of the route layer, then modified the route. The session was then messed up, with tracks and splines all over the place. Layers are very confusing.

I think the trick is to create all the "infrastructure" on the route layer, then add rolling stock and configuration of stations, industries, etc. on a session layer.

 

[TorenHynes]

Possible Reasons

Maybe this is because you are running TS2009 because I have never had the problem in TRS2006, and I am building a big route and I have also built many sessions while adding objects that change the route.
Toren Hynes

 

[TorenHynes]

Possible Reasons

Maybe this is because you are running TS2010 because I have never had the problem in TRS2006, and I am building a big route and I have also built many sessions while adding objects that change the route.
Toren Hynes

 

[Approach_Medium]

This should not happen. Layers have nothing at all to do with location of an object.
It seems like your World Origin got moved. If that happens, unpredictable results can be expected.

Layers are really very simple, but then, I have had experience working with layers in Adobe Photoshop and CAD programs.

I believe there is a good tutorial on layers somewhere around in this forum, if not in the TS2010 tutorial.
Otherwise, I will be happy to help you on this.

FW

 

[pcas1986]

This should not happen. Layers have nothing at all to do with location of an object.
It seems like your World Origin got moved. If that happens, unpredictable results can be expected.

Layers are really very simple, but then, I have had experience working with layers in Adobe Photoshop and CAD programs.

I believe there is a good tutorial on layers somewhere around in this forum, if not in the TS2010 tutorial.
Otherwise, I will be happy to help you on this.

FW

Thanks for the offer. I have something else to do today but I'm going to go and reread the literature on routes and sessions and layers etc.

After making the post I recall I did save the route under a different name and then went and updated all the related sessions to ensure the map kuid was correct. Perhaps that caused an issue.

I did make a change to the world origin last week but that was in TS2009 and before I imported the route to TS2010.

Cheers
Paul

 

[pcas1986]

Problem solved?

OK. I've managed to clean up the mess and I think what happened is that I added or changed the same section of track when editing in Route mode and Session mode. I think the TS2010 doco is suggesting that you can add track, such as a spur, that is only visible during a session.

I confess I'm at a loss to understand why you would want to do that. The track layout would normally be the same from session to session. About the only time it would be useful is if you wanted to have sessions separated by a long period of time. For example a route as it was in the 1920's and as it was in the 1950's. Assuming that the track changed in the intervening period.

Or perhaps I'm completely wrong Any thoughts?

I think I will leave experimenting with layers for a new or test route.

Cheers
Paul

 

[wreeder]

Paul,

You do have the right idea about layers. You can add track to a session and have it just appear on the route when the session is loaded. Having historical sessions would be a good use of this feature.

If you are building your own routes and sessions it is useful to lock the session layer while working on the route and lock the route layer while working on the session. That way you can't make a mistake.

William

 

[EdrickV]

With all the stuff being done using invisible track (boats, planes, copters, etc.) I could see some reasons to have track on a session layer. I imagine it could also be used for trying out different ways of doing something.

I haven't actually spent much time working in TS2010 yet though, I had some technical issues when saving routes/sessions in Surveyor, and since I fixed that I've mostly been downloading stuff. I've had plenty of experience with layers in image editors though.

And something just occured to me, are there track varieties with snow? That could be anohter reason to use track on sessions. The one thing I have to wonder though is if session track and route track can be connected to eachother? Will have to try it and see later.

 

[wreeder]

The one thing I have to wonder though is if session track and route track can be connected to each other? Will have to try it and see later.

Yes, they can but only at an existing spline point. If you try to attach the track on a section of track without a spline point at the joining point they won't connect.

William

 

[pcas1986]

Paul,

You do have the right idea about layers. You can add track to a session and have it just appear on the route when the session is loaded. Having historical sessions would be a good use of this feature.

If you are building your own routes and sessions it is useful to lock the session layer while working on the route and lock the route layer while working on the session. That way you can't make a mistake.

William

OK thanks - I'll try locking the sessions. I tend to bounce back and forth between building the route and using a test session to check the results. On a few occasions I've gotten distracted and made route changes while supposedly working on the session. Until now I didn't think that was a big deal since the save option allows changes to the route and the session at the same time. Perhaps this is not a good idea.

I used to be a software engineer. My discipline for changes must have evaporated when I retired.:hehe:

Paul

 

[EdrickV]

One thing you can do if you get stuff on the Session layer that you want on the route layer, and if you want the session layer to be empty, is to merge the two layers. One other note about mixing track between session and route, you can't apparently have multiple sets of track in different layers connected to the same spline point. (Or whatever the circles are called. The test case was trying to connect two sets of session track to a train station.)

Another thing that occurs to me, which I haven't tested yet, is that if you can put train vehicles on the route layer, then you could have items that will be common to all sessions as well as items specific to a session. Been spending more time downloading stuff via DLS then actually playing around in Trainz, though I did start work on a totally fictional and probably not very prototypical route and will probably start a bunch of different routes with different base ideas.

 

[pcas1986]

One thing you can do if you get stuff on the Session layer that you want on the route layer, and if you want the session layer to be empty, is to merge the two layers. One other note about mixing track between session and route, you can't apparently have multiple sets of track in different layers connected to the same spline point. (Or whatever the circles are called. The test case was trying to connect two sets of session track to a train station.)

Another thing that occurs to me, which I haven't tested yet, is that if you can put train vehicles on the route layer, then you could have items that will be common to all sessions as well as items specific to a session. Been spending more time downloading stuff via DLS then actually playing around in Trainz, though I did start work on a totally fictional and probably not very prototypical route and will probably start a bunch of different routes with different base ideas.

Until recently I thought that the Sessions only contained consists, parked rolling stock and AI schedules. Perhaps the concept of session layers existed in TS2009 but was not as obvious as in TS2010. TS2010 has a whole new menu selection which I've deliberately left alone until I have time to create a completely new route and play with the route and session layers.

Cheers
Paul

 

[Approach_Medium]

Until now, I have been doing all of my editing on the session level. In TS2009, that was the only way to carry over changes from one saved session to another.
It seemed that scenery, track, and just about everything except trains were always considered route layer (even though there were no accessible layers in TS2009), and trains, along with some data, such as the mizi Junction Controller data were on the session layer.

I used to lose that data if I modified a route without opening the correct session.

Now, with TS2010 having real layers to work with, I can make those mods to the route without having to change every session, as long as I put those objects or data on a route layer.
I have a lot of experimenting to do, but I have plenty of time to do it, since I currently don't have a full time job

FW