New to Trainz - whats with the random Object names?

[Dermmy]

In other words, nothing has improved in this aspect from TRS2006 onwards. I agree with AndyKay, it's hideous.

Actually the new system does work really well. Yes, you do need to back up your own keywords, but to do so takes a couple of mouse clicks. Folks who frequent the USLW forum may recall a rant post of mine on exactly this subject when I first started using 10 for serious route building, so I do hear and understand what folks are complaining about.

I would guess though that very few users spend more time in Surveyor than I do and once you get the hang of the 'filter' is is near absolutely reliable. The hours and hours I wasted in 04 scrolling through menu categories looking for that elusive *something* I knew I downloaded a while back are gone. What I am looking for is right there way way more often than not.

Good Grief - Dermmy coming out in support of 'The Company' and claiming anything is better than 04 - who'd have thought it possible...

Andy

 

[ShadyCadence]

Even splitting it into thirds would help.
Vegetation...Buildings... ... ... ...other?

Ah, well. I have a workaround. The lost art of the scribe.:hehe:

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

@ Dermmy

Andy since you have done the hard yards, do you mind if I lean on you for some tips regarding content management in CM3 and TS2010? I'd like to PM to you over the coming weekend with some of my dumb-arse questions.

Cheers

~ Deane

 

[ianwoodmore]

Brad

In Search:

Use 'Category Buildings' for Buildings

Use 'Category Flora' for Vegetation.

There are nearly forty such categories.

 

[AndyKay]

What I am looking for is right there way way more often than not.

I think thats one of the problems I highlighted - you already know what you want from the 150,000 objects, so you just type it into the search. What about people who are just browsing the catalogue?

Im not saying get rid of the search and replace it with categories, it would help people if there was both. Complimented with a decent, understandable, standardised naming system - introduced by Auran. Now how much better would that be?

Im sure if you knew about them, there are many other objects you'd use on your maps - thats if you knew they were there, due to the random names, or often no name as highlighted in one of my previous posts.

 

[AndyKay]

Maybe you need to just figure out how to work with the system.

Now thats not very helpful is it? If something isnt very efficient, it should be changed or evolved (being an Australian company, they should know this! lol) into something more efficient or easy-to-use

 

[WillPac]

A few thoughts on the subject:

1. I don't have 2010 yet (but could be close!), just 2006, but I have found that some of the more annoying names are things like "sr" or "pt" followed by a bunch of numbers. That really tells one NOTHING about the object--and all of those are BUILT IN assets.

2. I have found the best (not ideal, just best) solution is to keep a notebook handy, and when I run into a cryptic asset name, I note it, plus a description of WHAT this asset is.

3. I can understand (to a point) complaining about indecipherable asset names on built in content, but if it's an asset you got off the DLS, it's your own fault. Nobody made you download it! I try to avoid the foreign-named assets on DLS, because with almost 15 GB of d/l'd stuff, I don't really want to add to the names that make no sense. But sometimes, I HAVE to have something, even with an unreadable name. Let's face it, some of those German Trainz master artists are GOOD!

4. I think even more annoying are the categories. Yes, I agree, Trainz needs more. But first, I would like to see them get the ones they have right! Why is it that a lot of buildings, people, vehicles and trees are in the Scenery section instead of their own (Buildings, People, Vehicles, Flora). Again, much of this is built in content. And again, reasoning says with 15 GB of stuff, I really don't want to have to stay on the ALL tab so I don't miss something that is not in its proper section.

5. I use the search filter a lot in Surveyor. Just remember looking for "station" will net you not just train stations, but station platforms, police stations, fire stations, gas stations, etc. This is, of course, not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

......

2. I have found the best (not ideal, just best) solution is to keep a notebook handy, and when I run into a cryptic asset name, I note it, plus a description of WHAT this asset is.

3. I can understand (to a point) complaining about indecipherable asset names on built in content, but if it's an asset you got off the DLS, it's your own fault. Nobody made you download it! I try to avoid the foreign-named assets on DLS, because with almost 15 GB of d/l'd stuff, I don't really want to add to the names that make no sense. But sometimes, I HAVE to have something, even with an unreadable name. Let's face it, some of those German Trainz master artists are GOOD!

4. I think even more annoying are the categories. Yes, I agree, Trainz needs more. But first, I would like to see them get the ones they have right! Why is it that a lot of buildings, people, vehicles and trees are in the Scenery section instead of their own (Buildings, People, Vehicles, Flora). Again, much of this is built in content. And again, reasoning says with 15 GB of stuff, I really don't want to have to stay on the ALL tab so I don't miss something that is not in its proper section.

...snipped..

All true, but I certainly don't want to resort to a hand-written notebook. I'd rather fix the system within the game. With TRS2004, I always used to re-name and re-categorise assets just after downloading them by modifying their config files. And I kept backups of all that modified content (as well as their original .CDP files) in case of a crash/re-install.

Is there anything stopping us from doing the same in TRS2006 or TS2010?

I'm asking because that's what I intend to keep doing, and I may even do it to sort out the mess of built-in assets if I can. I'd like to hear about all the possible problems with this, especially regarding built-ins, before I embark on such a religious crusade.


~ D

 

[FlyingScottmond]

The random names come from 3rd parties who make custom content for the game. When a new version is released they sometimes include user-created content alongside of the original 10,000 objects that came with the game in 2001.

 

[FlyingScottmond]

It seems odd that a user would call their objects such random names

To answer that, there are also german, spanish and many other languages who use Trainz.

 

[NikkiA]

To answer that, there are also german, spanish and many other languages who use Trainz.

Also, what seems random to one, may not be to another.

To the polish "PKP SM48" is just as meaningful as 'BR Cl37' is to brits, or "RZhD TEM2U" is to a russian, but to someone not aware of the rolling stock, etc, in those regions, they will look like random gibberish.

 

[sniper297]

I used a notebook when I started with MSTS, that was divided into many categories but the problem was all the track sections - a1t1000r5ds, what's that? a2t250r10ds, a1pntleftmnl.s, a1endpnt10ds, a1t10mtrskew.s, had to place each one in the route editor and write a list with a description of which was what.

That said, MSTS has categories, Railworks has categories, Railworks has that irritating object filter and the names in each category often make no sense plus stuff is frequently in the wrong list, but it does have categories. No AI traffic worthy of the name, but it has categories. :hehe: Trainz has a category filter in Content Mangler, how hard would it be to add the same thing to surveyor?

 

[NikkiA]

...

That said, MSTS has categories, Railworks has categories, Railworks has that irritating object filter and the names in each category often make no sense plus stuff is frequently in the wrong list, but it does have categories. No AI traffic worthy of the name, but it has categories. :hehe: Trainz has a category filter in Content Mangler, how hard would it be to add the same thing to surveyor?

Now lets be honest here, Railworks' categories are more analogous to Trainz's tabs on the right (rolling stock, track, trackside, static scenery, etc), and there is NO filtering whatsoever, if you open a route that has had most providers unlocked for it, you will be greeted by a list of every train you have in the locomotives list, and every piece of scenery you have in the scenery list. Using surveyor's saved searches, keywords or the picklist is light years beyond Railworks in terms of organising the items you want to use.

 

[b9k9kiwi]

...
'xcf345' when such item is 'grass' for example.

Things are getting worse with respect to naming rather than getting better as you have already found out.

Trainz was created many years back now and when it was a wide range of what would now be more than useful conventions and standards were not even thought of.

Apart from naming conventions, there is no standard, for example, for the N-S-E-W orientation of a scenery object. Whilst there are some standards for attachment point naming, there is no standard as to whether you attach an item as a separate dependency as opposed to being integral to the mesh. Sometimes couplings are separate dependencies, sometimes integral - and buffers are always integral which is a major pain. I could go on, but I won't.

Nonetheless, Auran today is not the Auran of yesterday and they cannot be blamed for the lack of robust standards and conventions. Nor can content creators who follow what standards there are but who are drawn from society at large and so vary in temperament and communication skills as do we all.

We are very much in content creators hands and, I have to say, some of them are more than aware of that - the amount of grovelling and boot-licking you sometimes have to do in order to get permission to publish merely a reskin or a minor modification of an item of rolling stock has always taken me aback.

You have missed a plethora of hissy-fits and episodes of chucking toys out of the cot over the years by some content creators, but I come from a theatre background so I know what creative artists can be like - and they are truly creative. On the other hand, the communications I have had with content creators have always been polite and pleasurable with good outcomes.

I do agree, though, that not renaming objects that subsequently become built-in elements of Trainz in such a way as to enable us to work out immediately (more or less) what they actually are, is plainly stupid (especially when so many do not have thumbnails).

In the end Trainz is more fun than frustration, but it is marginal at times.

Have fun.

 

[cascaderailroad]

A great way to find fantastic grass's, tree's, bridges ... etc ... is to download some of the major great routebuilders routes.

And to heck with all the thousands and thousands of assets, that have no photo or description, with such nonsence named lamely as: "ciruff erbe #4" and "Joorgsten Ooob".

If you download all of Philskene, GFisher routes ... and hundereds of other major route creators, who do use quality scenery ... you will have more than enough assets to work with in your lifetime.

And too, you could PM and ask others for assets you want ... and they could help point out that "Waschenlage", "Lavadero", "OKT" are loco wash racks.
=====================================================
In the assets config file, you change: username .... waschenlage, to what ever you wish to rename it.
=====================================================
One of my favorites is "Tunnel3_1 voie", which has errors in the config file, that must be fixed (for it won't show up without fixing the errors)...PM me if you need help

 

[sniper297]

"Railworks' categories are more analogous to Trainz's tabs"

I don't have Railworks installed anymore, deleted it to make room for TS2010, but best I recall they had more categories, and you could pick from locos, freight cars, or passenger coaches in the scenario editor. No sense comparing them anyway, Trainz is a train simulator, Railworks is a birdwatching and scenery simulator that happens to have moving trains in it. My point is it would be helpful to have categories in the search filter, so you could find all trees for example. Current search filter I type in "tree" and get some of the trees, but not the ones labeled "birch small" or "Douglas Fir" and also get anything with "sTREEt" in it so I get roads and road signs when I'm looking for trees. Category "Trees and vegetation" would give you all the flora without having to guess at a bunch of different possible names.

 

[sparky15]

Now lets be honest here, Railworks' categories are more analogous to Trainz's tabs on the right (rolling stock, track, trackside, static scenery, etc), and there is NO filtering whatsoever, if you open a route that has had most providers unlocked for it, you will be greeted by a list of every train you have in the locomotives list, and every piece of scenery you have in the scenery list. Using surveyor's saved searches, keywords or the picklist is light years beyond Railworks in terms of organising the items you want to use.

How do you find TS's 2010's filtering system compared to say TRS2004's?

Come on, you can be honest.

Dave.....

 

[ianwoodmore]

Sniper wrote

Trainz has a category filter in Content Mangler, how hard would it be to add the same thing to surveyor?

It does. The Surveyor Content Search Filter is almost a mirror image of the Content Manager Search Filter.

Select '+' This brings up 'Name' then RMB and select which filter you want. To get to 'Category' use vertical tab. RMB the right field and select the category you want.
You can build complex filter as well and then save them.

The one CM filter I would like added to Surveyor is the CM saved filter. Why do we have to rebuild all our custom filters? Not very efficient.

 

[sniper297]

Whadd'ya know!

That works, altho the original poster's complaint still applies - in the category "Flora" I get trees, bushes, grass, roof sections, walls, fences, and houses, the last four obviously mislabeled. I've been guilty of that as well, upload a cabview without noticing it's listed as "miscellaneous" instead of "interior". Good tip tho, gonna make searching a lot easier. :wave:

 

[mezzoprezzo]

Good morning.

A great way to find fantastic grass's, tree's, bridges ... etc ... is to download some of the major great routebuilders routes.

And to heck with all the thousands and thousands of assets, that have no photo or description, with such nonsence named lamely as: "ciruff erbe #4" and "Joorgsten Ooob". #snip

Great tip Cascade.

I’m still finding new items and ideas using that method.

In addition, it’s worth noting the creators kuid, going into the DLS and looking at all of that creators stuff under kuid number search.

The quality of the work is usually carried through to all of the creators other creations. That way you can find items you never though you would want – often a great source of inspiration.

Cheers
Casper


PS – Cascade. Trucks sorted. Thanks for PM!