WileeCoyote
Eatibus Almost Anythingus
Indeed, the default track is poor, BUT, there is much better track on the DLS and 3rd party sites, if you want I will gladly point you to them.
WileeCoyote
New KRS US shots!
- Thread starter nikos1
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Indeed, the default track is poor, BUT, there is much better track on the DLS and 3rd party sites, if you want I will gladly point you to them.
WileeCoyote
I for one like Trainz and i agree with some it could use some work here and there but perfection when it comes to something such as this you can never expect.
I've preordered a copy of KRS and eagerly await seeing how it runs and works. Just with the bits I've seen I think I'll like it but who knows. I think it will shine as Trainz does with 3rd party content and our team has expressed some interested in KRS as well so you may see us being a dual sim group here shortly. Time will tell!!
I've preordered a copy of KRS and eagerly await seeing how it runs and works. Just with the bits I've seen I think I'll like it but who knows. I think it will shine as Trainz does with 3rd party content and our team has expressed some interested in KRS as well so you may see us being a dual sim group here shortly. Time will tell!!
Nikos, I agree that the program still has plenty of bugs, but most have to do with CMP, and I've never met a scenario editor for any program yet that didn't require constant saving to avoid the all too frequent crashes. And yes, the framerates are low in high density areas, but I get the same in many other modern sims under the same circumstances. It's a fact of life in a virtual world. 
I'd say as a TrainSimmer that the only way to support a product is to buy it. I'll be buying KRS as soon as it becomes available locally, I'll probably get about 3 FPS on my Dell 2.66, but I'll get it anyway as an investment in the future.
The company needs the capital to show the investors that they have a viable product and to continue working on that product. It can't be easy getting investment capital for a niche product like a Train Sim.
Probably the major reason to buy it is simply that they're trying to give us exactly what we want. How can we not support them in return?
I'd say as a TrainSimmer that the only way to support a product is to buy it. I'll be buying KRS as soon as it becomes available locally, I'll probably get about 3 FPS on my Dell 2.66, but I'll get it anyway as an investment in the future.
The company needs the capital to show the investors that they have a viable product and to continue working on that product. It can't be easy getting investment capital for a niche product like a Train Sim.
Probably the major reason to buy it is simply that they're trying to give us exactly what we want. How can we not support them in return?
Therock
<kuid2:37581:420:69>
Yes, but that's aside from the point. I think Nikos is trying to point out the differences in what comes with games from the box.Indeed, the default track is poor, BUT, there is much better track on the DLS and 3rd party sites, if you want I will gladly point you to them.
WileeCoyote
maartentje
alway's on the move
the graphics are realy great of this game. (new game better graphics):udrool: :udrool:
Maartentje
Maartentje
Well, I agree that he is comparing default content to default content. I don't remember being impressed with the CE version content compared to the first MSTS content, or vice-versa, and I'm not certain that it's a relevant argument anyway, what with the passage of time anyway.
Shouldn't KRS be compared instead to TC?
So you're thinking that TC uses basically the same rolling stock as Trainz has had included since the beginning of time, with the exception of the new rolling stock made for Classics. So, compare those please to the rolling stock in KRS.
I suppose the rest of the features could be compared between the two as well. How about those crossings? How about the features such as the crossing lights and gates? What about the track?
Now certainly KRS shows some real promise, and will probably evolve into a fine Train Sim, and if Nikos is trying to say that Trainz started way back then and it was crap compared to what Trainz is now, and that KRS is starting now in a much more refined condition, well, I guess we can't argue with him.
I think we should look at where KRS is now, and where Trainz is now and we can speculate on where they may be in the future. More than likely, all train simulators will eventually adopt the same features (more or less), but have different 3D engines and different interfaces. Hopefully someday it will just be a matter of preference or innovations.
Ed
Shouldn't KRS be compared instead to TC?
So you're thinking that TC uses basically the same rolling stock as Trainz has had included since the beginning of time, with the exception of the new rolling stock made for Classics. So, compare those please to the rolling stock in KRS.
I suppose the rest of the features could be compared between the two as well. How about those crossings? How about the features such as the crossing lights and gates? What about the track?
Now certainly KRS shows some real promise, and will probably evolve into a fine Train Sim, and if Nikos is trying to say that Trainz started way back then and it was crap compared to what Trainz is now, and that KRS is starting now in a much more refined condition, well, I guess we can't argue with him.
I think we should look at where KRS is now, and where Trainz is now and we can speculate on where they may be in the future. More than likely, all train simulators will eventually adopt the same features (more or less), but have different 3D engines and different interfaces. Hopefully someday it will just be a matter of preference or innovations.
Ed
...cool thread...I goes in every direction...
8)Thanks for the post Nikos,
You mention default content...if it were not for Auran, we'd be flogging msts, for the dog it is.
That content(my beloved home road) City & Country, is about five years old, and don't think that everyone who has ever "clicked" the throttle on Trainz, hasn't played it at least once. This is how the game works, everyone plays on the contributions, good or bad, done before they tried.
As for the Auran default (PaintShed) content, we had a thread awhile back on PaintShed, and included a site by Drucifer, on how to add content to PS. This information has been with us from the start, and Dru did a great job "painting the picture for all to understand."
The site count went up dramatically on Dru's tut, however I never heard anyone try to generate PS addons.
So no wonder, that Dru says PaintShed is dead!
Franks loco's would do great, for example, however the work has to be done, and no one wishes to let their content out to "freelance artistry."
As I said before, unless the atmosphere is live, or at least real-life(like FS-10), I shan't be amused.
Very good topic Nikos, but Auran is not finished yet by a long shot.
8)Thanks for the post Nikos,
You mention default content...if it were not for Auran, we'd be flogging msts, for the dog it is.
That content(my beloved home road) City & Country, is about five years old, and don't think that everyone who has ever "clicked" the throttle on Trainz, hasn't played it at least once. This is how the game works, everyone plays on the contributions, good or bad, done before they tried.
As for the Auran default (PaintShed) content, we had a thread awhile back on PaintShed, and included a site by Drucifer, on how to add content to PS. This information has been with us from the start, and Dru did a great job "painting the picture for all to understand."
The site count went up dramatically on Dru's tut, however I never heard anyone try to generate PS addons.
So no wonder, that Dru says PaintShed is dead!
Franks loco's would do great, for example, however the work has to be done, and no one wishes to let their content out to "freelance artistry."
As I said before, unless the atmosphere is live, or at least real-life(like FS-10), I shan't be amused.
Very good topic Nikos, but Auran is not finished yet by a long shot.
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There seems to be something about the quality of graphics since KRS came out compared to Trainz.Why keep comparing I've seen so many threads about better graphics in KRS . I'm sure all the creators can give us better models with more detail that look really real just smaller.
Why keep comparing quality between the 2.And we continue r complain about poor performance & how to improve it.
Answer : Increase graphic detail.
Or
I'll just go & find that Super Computer thread so I can build a new computer to get more than 2fps when I run it.
Dave
Why keep comparing quality between the 2.And we continue r complain about poor performance & how to improve it.
Answer : Increase graphic detail.
Or
I'll just go & find that Super Computer thread so I can build a new computer to get more than 2fps when I run it.
Dave
WileeCoyote
Eatibus Almost Anythingus
Ah yes, but you must think outside the box my friend. Many good content creators did this and look at the result, loads of fantastic 3rd party content that is readily available and easy to install. Say that about KRS, ok granted yes the game has only been around for a few months, but still.
WileeCoyote
amigacooke
Well-known member
I have KRS and I am impressed with the driving experience.
I have TC and I remain impressed with the shear flexibility of operation that Trainz allows.
Horses for courses.
I have TC and I remain impressed with the shear flexibility of operation that Trainz allows.
Horses for courses.
Interesting, Nick. I'll have to check it out.
I'm not jumping ship or anything. It's good to check out the other side of the fence once in awhile so to come home and realize what we've had all along is really quite nice.
In the end other than spending a few bucks on a disk, and I've spent more than my share of bucks on crap only to throw the stuff on the shelf for dust collection, it'll be worth a try to see what can really be done with the program. If it's not good, it'll join the other crud I've purchased in the past.
There's a lot more to this than meets the eye here. I think that KRS has an advantage. This is the program they were working on in the past, and now have the capital to continue the project. They may have had a good portion of the coding done before (Remember the old MSTS2 screen shots anyone?), so all they're doing now is putting the finishing touches on the code and readying it for market.
Trainz is far from perfect, but it sure has provided me an perhaps thousands of other people with a great time and a way of escaping to our own little world.
In our quest for the perfect rail sim, it would be great to have a world creation program like Surveyor, and the ease of use of Driver in a program that has the graphics we see in the new "MSTS2". In the end, however, we have to compromise on functionality versus pretty graphics because not everyone is going to have a super computer to run the program.
John
I'm not jumping ship or anything. It's good to check out the other side of the fence once in awhile so to come home and realize what we've had all along is really quite nice.
In the end other than spending a few bucks on a disk, and I've spent more than my share of bucks on crap only to throw the stuff on the shelf for dust collection, it'll be worth a try to see what can really be done with the program. If it's not good, it'll join the other crud I've purchased in the past.
There's a lot more to this than meets the eye here. I think that KRS has an advantage. This is the program they were working on in the past, and now have the capital to continue the project. They may have had a good portion of the coding done before (Remember the old MSTS2 screen shots anyone?), so all they're doing now is putting the finishing touches on the code and readying it for market.
Trainz is far from perfect, but it sure has provided me an perhaps thousands of other people with a great time and a way of escaping to our own little world.
In our quest for the perfect rail sim, it would be great to have a world creation program like Surveyor, and the ease of use of Driver in a program that has the graphics we see in the new "MSTS2". In the end, however, we have to compromise on functionality versus pretty graphics because not everyone is going to have a super computer to run the program.
John
darius359au
New member
Actually their from the U.S Version of KRS , theres going to be two versions , the original European version with the UK and German routes and the US version with one of the UK routes removed and the US content installed - there is going to be an option for both versions to purchase the missing content as an add-on later , so what you see in the OP's shots is what you get in KRS if you purchase the US version.
atsfrr3000
New member
From Lance_Jago's "What to post in Prototype Talk"...
I'd say discussions and screenshots from another sim seem perfectly fine here, given the above quote.
I'll probably be buying KRS when it becomes available here.
After a frustrating week and a half trying to get a route going in KRS, I am giving up and returning to TRS. For sheer ease of use and flexibility Surveyor cannot be beaten (particularly with the real world capabilites offered by third party programmes like Transdem).
In some respects, creating for RS looks even harder than it was for MSTS...
For starters, everything you do whether the route itself, the geographical marker file or a piece of scenery has to have a blueprint. The instructions provided as to how these are created are by no means clear though a third party utility has made some aspects of this part a little easier.
Once you have your blueprint it has to be processed and exported into the sim via the Asset Editor.
Finally you can access the World Editor. Native importation of DEM is useful but unlike Transdem there is no facility to overlay the map so markers have to be created via Google Earth (not much use if your route is in a low res area) then imported via a blueprint, the Asset Editor.
Tracklaying apes Surveyor in some respects but is much more tricky. For starters you need to assign a "rule" (which controls such things as gradient format, maximum curvature, sound rumble sources etc) to the particular section you are laying. However there are no spline points, once a section is laid it is fixed at that radius - it can be moved but only as a rigid object. Creating junctions and crossovers requires substantial trial and error. While the programme attempts to display proper frogs and checkrails on pointwork, you need to get things aligned just right or the junction will not form correctly. There is a useful offset tool for laying parallel linear objects but this cannot be used for creating track sections. You cannot create junctions from different types of track (e.g. wooden sleeper out of concrete sleeper) nor can you change the rule on a section of track once it is laid.
There is a serious bug with some non rail linear items (roads and fencing) which can either be laid to a specific gradient or to follow the terrain. Unfortunately switching methods can cause the rest of the connected network to distort with sections elevated at an angle for no reason. This has been promised a fix in the forthcoming patch but, well, not impressed. In the meantime laying fences one section at a time is no better than MSTS and vastly inferior to TRS.
Placement of individual scenery items needs to be done one at a time - there's no auto-rotation for pieces such as trees as in Trainz. Nor are the Forest objects for large wooded areas that MSTS offered available. The terrain painting tool seemed quite primitive, not quick or easy to blend textures or create the rich landscapes that really talented artists can achieve in TRS, or the speed of tiling terrain in MSTS. (Nor could I see any means of copying and pasting terrain texture).
I haven't got as far as looking at speed restrictions or signalling a route (and doubt I will) but by all accounts these are causing a fair amount of headache and consternation.
I guess any new sim will do things differently and requires a learning curve but the KRS Editor seems to have disregarded the tried and trusted principles established by its predecessors. I'm sure in time the really dedicated creators will produce some stunning routes. However the more I tried it the more the voice in my head was telling me I could get three times as much done in the same time in TRS.
Hope the above insight is of use.
In some respects, creating for RS looks even harder than it was for MSTS...
For starters, everything you do whether the route itself, the geographical marker file or a piece of scenery has to have a blueprint. The instructions provided as to how these are created are by no means clear though a third party utility has made some aspects of this part a little easier.
Once you have your blueprint it has to be processed and exported into the sim via the Asset Editor.
Finally you can access the World Editor. Native importation of DEM is useful but unlike Transdem there is no facility to overlay the map so markers have to be created via Google Earth (not much use if your route is in a low res area) then imported via a blueprint, the Asset Editor.
Tracklaying apes Surveyor in some respects but is much more tricky. For starters you need to assign a "rule" (which controls such things as gradient format, maximum curvature, sound rumble sources etc) to the particular section you are laying. However there are no spline points, once a section is laid it is fixed at that radius - it can be moved but only as a rigid object. Creating junctions and crossovers requires substantial trial and error. While the programme attempts to display proper frogs and checkrails on pointwork, you need to get things aligned just right or the junction will not form correctly. There is a useful offset tool for laying parallel linear objects but this cannot be used for creating track sections. You cannot create junctions from different types of track (e.g. wooden sleeper out of concrete sleeper) nor can you change the rule on a section of track once it is laid.
There is a serious bug with some non rail linear items (roads and fencing) which can either be laid to a specific gradient or to follow the terrain. Unfortunately switching methods can cause the rest of the connected network to distort with sections elevated at an angle for no reason. This has been promised a fix in the forthcoming patch but, well, not impressed. In the meantime laying fences one section at a time is no better than MSTS and vastly inferior to TRS.
Placement of individual scenery items needs to be done one at a time - there's no auto-rotation for pieces such as trees as in Trainz. Nor are the Forest objects for large wooded areas that MSTS offered available. The terrain painting tool seemed quite primitive, not quick or easy to blend textures or create the rich landscapes that really talented artists can achieve in TRS, or the speed of tiling terrain in MSTS. (Nor could I see any means of copying and pasting terrain texture).
I haven't got as far as looking at speed restrictions or signalling a route (and doubt I will) but by all accounts these are causing a fair amount of headache and consternation.
I guess any new sim will do things differently and requires a learning curve but the KRS Editor seems to have disregarded the tried and trusted principles established by its predecessors. I'm sure in time the really dedicated creators will produce some stunning routes. However the more I tried it the more the voice in my head was telling me I could get three times as much done in the same time in TRS.
Hope the above insight is of use.
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I think this is a bit of a myth - KRS is supposedly all new code and there is a story (perhaps apocryphal) that MS descended on the Kuju offices to ensure all traces of the original MSTS2 code and WIP were removed. The development of (original) MSTS2 was to be taken in house by MS and while I guess we will never know what happened behind closed doors, any attempt by Kuju to use that code would open them up to litigation. (Even though MS subsequently scrapped the mess they inherited from Kuju).
That said, there are parallels with procedures - for example the route blueprint seems to be analagous with the old MSTS1 Route Geometry Extractor in that it sets the real world geographical location.
That's very interesting, Vern. That would make sense since Microsoft is coming out with their new version of "MSTS 2". to compete with the Kuju/EA offereing This looks a lot more promising then the Kuju product. Knowing Microsoft, they'll either do a wiz-bang job out of the box, or totally muff it right off then drop it like they did version 1.0. So far the screen shots look promising though.
John
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