Need New 'Puter; Any Suggestions

[captainkman]

Hmm....doesn't sound too fair to me.

As Homer Simpson said as Mr Plow, "Are you tired of the inevitable heart attacks that come from shovelling snow?".

I don't think I'll be shovelling snow after that. :hehe:

Kieran.

 

[NeonTheGriffon]

I too, wish I had $1200.

Kieran.

That's almost enough to get you a nVidia Quadro K5000!

May not be suitable for Trainz but I could imagine the render time for TANE content.

 

[JCitron]

That's almost enough to get you a nVidia Quadro K5000!

May not be suitable for Trainz but I could imagine the render time for TANE content.

Maybe good for CAD work, but not for games. Period. CAD cards may use some of the same underlying hardware, such as the chips and cores, but they also contain additional ROM code which adds in additional functions and removes others. These cards also contain the primitives for quick drawing of various shapes so they don't have to fetch this information from the software. Specific calls are made, for example, for a cylinder and the hardware already has the shape in its built-in library. They also have additional pipelines and math precision which is never utilized by the gaming hardware so it's a waste. With this additional overhead, the cards are actually slower on the gaming side and better suited for CAD/CAM and model building. Thus, we have the high price for the Quadro cards.

FYI. I worked in the hardware industry for many years, and specifically, with terminals and later graphics terminals, then much later with systems and IT. I used to troubleshoot and test the graphics circuits down to the component level. Today I'm retired from the computer industry and IT and enjoy this stuff as a hobby instead.

John

 

[NeonTheGriffon]

Maybe good for CAD work, but not for games. Period. CAD cards may use some of the same underlying hardware, such as the chips and cores, but they also contain additional ROM code which adds in additional functions and removes others. These cards also contain the primitives for quick drawing of various shapes so they don't have to fetch this information from the software. Specific calls are made, for example, for a cylinder and the hardware already has the shape in its built-in library. They also have additional pipelines and math precision which is never utilized by the gaming hardware so it's a waste. With this additional overhead, the cards are actually slower on the gaming side and better suited for CAD/CAM and model building. Thus, we have the high price for the Quadro cards.

FYI. I worked in the hardware industry for many years, and specifically, with terminals and later graphics terminals, then much later with systems and IT. I used to troubleshoot and test the graphics circuits down to the component level. Today I'm retired from the computer industry and IT and enjoy this stuff as a hobby instead.

John

You're spot on, John! I was referring to rendering content as in exporting it in a high resolution image file from 3DSMax or similar program. I see plenty of 3D design firms using quadros these days, which is pretty fascinating.
Now we have 3D scanners being used on 1:1 trains to make models of them. Someone on here should invest in one

 

[JCitron]

You're spot on, John! I was referring to rendering content as in exporting it in a high resolution image file from 3DSMax or similar program. I see plenty of 3D design firms using quadros these days, which is pretty fascinating.
Now we have 3D scanners being used on 1:1 trains to make models of them. Someone on here should invest in one

Of course.

My brother has that same Quadro card for his engineering needs. He makes solid models for laser cutting and casting molds for pewter parts. He's in the graphics industry, in case you're wondering, and does stuff for the incentive industry.

The 3D scanners are nice, but so expensive still. I saw a nice one at a graphic arts show that would put a real dent in someone's budget. These aren't meant for the home and hobby use yet. The same with the 3d printers. The kind you really would like start at $30,000 and up. The ones for around $2,000 or less are fun to use, but you can see the limitations. Eventually the technology will become better at the bottom end like everything else.

John

 

[captainkman]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your earlier help in this thread.

My computer's screen has now decided to go bye-bye and rather than spend $200 replacing the screen unit, Mother and I have decided to fork out a little extra and just replace the 5-year-old hunk of junk.

We are contemplating purchasing this unit as a replacement: http://www.harveynorman.com.au/comp...s/laptops/acer-aspire-e5-521-68n4-laptop.html

Would this be T:ANE ready as well as TS12-compatible? I would like to ensure that any new laptop I purchase can run T:ANE based on the recommended specs released so far.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Kieran.

 

[beckster181]

Kieran.

Last year my Daughter had a big problem with ACER laptop she was talked into getting one that once she had it turned out to have a touch screen 8 months later she closed the lid in a hurry one day and had left the head phone earplugs on the keyboard, result Cracked screen that due to the touch capability was messing with everything so couldnt disable screen and just plug in another monitor etc as a work around.

ok YES not a warranty claim her fault totally was toldby a few places would have to be sent direct to ACER for replacement screen and was quoted prices from $350 to $700 for the job and a time frame of 1 to 2 months.

so decided to ring ACER direct and see what they could do. service arranger operator etc was super price would be $190 total had to be paid up front and would take 2 weeks so daughter saved her money for repair and then re contacted ACER to pay and book it in this is in August we get an email giving us details of how to send it to them etc and it is picked up within 2 days a couple of days later we get email to say it is there and being assessed by their techs for what is needed for the fix. another couple of days we got an email stating that it was now in the service centre being repaired.

We thought way cool 5 days total and it is in getting the screen fixed might be quicker than the 2 weeks. Then we heard nothing and after the 2 weeks was up still nothing so we rang to see what was happening, first my daughter was told that they had fixed it and it had gone to shipping for return (a lie we would learn about later) after 4 more days we rang again and asked where it was and were told they would have to ring us back once they looked into it as they were no escalating the complaint (at that point we hadnt made a complaint just enquiries)

Anyway as you can see this was the start of a long drawn out BATTLE to get PROPER CUSTOMER SERVICE in the end the reason it had taken so long to fix which it never was was that they did not have any replacement screens nor were they expecting any within the next 6 to 12 months their first compromise was to return the laptop to my daughter so she could put it into the system for repair at some point in the future when they had screens as she could get a loan machine from the rent to buy place till hers was fixed we agreed to this.

However when they shipped it back to us from acer rather than placing it in its proper ACER box we had sent it to them in they put a single sheet of bubble wrap around it put it in a box 2 inches to big for it in all directions height width and depth and then to protect it they stuck that box into yet a bigger box that they cut down so it was only a bit too big for the inner box. Needless to say it was damaged in transit way beyond a broken screen. this caused further delays as this was now a two part repair one for my daughter breaking the screen and one for damages to the computer in transit which was in their view at first our fault as we were responsible for its packaging that took 2 weeks to change their mind about and the damage while superficialto look at i wasnt going to open it up and do in her warranty to check things inside worked as we couldnt start the computer anyway due to the cracked and now chipped screen.

in the end we did get a less expensive replacement but as she was renting to buy it she had to return it to the place of purchase to do the change over that took 4 weeks to get the paper work put through from ACER to the head office of the rent to buy place it was one email!!! and they agreed that they were responsible for the damage apart from the original cracked screen and would fix it at no cost AND after all that they finally agreed to refund my daughters $190 for the screen for stuffing us about so much that was in January BUT she didnt finally get her refund till MARCH and then i was threatening them with breach on consumer laws and quoting then sections and sub parragraphs till we got it done in a day after they hadnt been able to get it out to us for 4 weeks.


SO i am a bit OFF ACER products of late however the one point i would point out withh a laptop your RAM is also used as your VRAM so this one has 8GIG of ram see what upgrading it to 16 would cost sometimes it is easy and not for much extra AND rember HAGGLE dont take the price as gospel tell them it needs the extra ram to be good for what you want it for but that you dont want to spend too much extra etc use cash and ask for a cash discount Harvey Norman is known for this sort of deal making so give it a try any dollars you save are good dollars

good luck with it but i would still go with a desktop if you dont truely need a laptop

Cheers
Becky

 

[JCitron]

Becky,

ACER is not known for their customer service or even their high quality. What you described is typical of what I have heard from other users and have read in the various forums regarding the company. They don't seem to do anything for the consumer unless someone complains outright to them and threatens them with the consumer protection laws. You might find this interesting here, but article is a bit dated, but relevant even today:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/acer-...-its-only-six-months-old-and-the-mothe-510470

As far as quality, it varies from batch to batch it seems. Some people will have no problems at all. Way back when I was looking for a computer in the mid-1990s, I asked around and was told that the ACER Acros model was excellent. So I got one at a local dealer. At first everything was great, but within a year, most of the components died, including the motherboard just after the warranty failed. I replaced all the components and kept the case for another few years. Then a couple of years later, I worked for a company that used their Acros machines as controllers for larger industrial print servers. I warned the purchasing people about the quality, but they didn't listen and we would receive in mixed batches of machines with some working great while others would fail during tests, later on, or not work at all.

Good luck with your ACER issue.

John

 

[beckster181]

hey John,

I am not surprised by your experience with ACER products then or now one of the main reasons i started to build my own computers was i couldnt see the sense in buying IBM or ACER or HP when you could never get exactly what you wanted, unless you wanted to pay EXTRA BIG bucks for them, and then if something dies your usually stuffed as by the time it does they no longer support that model etc also Drivers were always an issue even way back in DOS 5 days(showing my age again OOPS) since sticking to brands like gigabyte or asus for MOBOs and similar for video i find there is never any real problem with drivers. If apart dies it is simple to replace except if the CPU has changed and your board dont support the new pin settings or your CPU is ok but your MOBO dies and they are not making that style CPU now, But i have found that computer markets and garage sales and even the op shops can be a good place to pick up a good cheap bargain from time to time. I will never buy a brand name computer again for all these reasons.

Cheers
Becky

 

[johnwhelan]

I'd shy away from a non computer specialist store. Au I don't know terribly well but Dell operate there and something like http://www.dell.com/au/p/inspiron-15-3542-laptop/pd?oc=smx510743au&model_id=inspiron-15-3542-laptop would be an alternative. I'm concerned because I don't recognise the R4 video. Intel graphics on a chip at HD4000 or better is quite respectable http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

HP have a look at HP 15-r016tu Notebook PC I've looked more at price points than anything else.

Cheerio John

 

[johnwhelan]

The R4 is an integrated video with not much performance. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+R4 Intel i3 or i5 with HD400 would be better.

Cheerio John

 

[captainkman]

Becky,

Thankyou for sharing the trouble your daughter had. As I do not believe I am quite so careless I think there's a small chance of that happening to myself but you never know! :hehe:

I am trying to steer clear of touch screens.

Thanks for pointing out that the 8GB of RAM is also going to be used as VRAM. My old laptop had only 4GB of RAM and it did run TS2010 very well but never TS12. I will consider a RAM upgrade at a later date but not initially.

I have finished school now (graduated from Grade 12, hooray!) and I am looking to start tertiary education next year. This is where a laptop would be preferable. The noise of a typewriter seemed to distract and irritate people in the past at school....


John Whelan,

So, the AMD R4 isn't a very powerful card by the looks of things. But, would it 'do' for at least the existing versions of Trainz? I'm really not after a big-budget spend, just something that meets my current needs and will do what I want. T:ANE compatibility is a concern but not an immediate one.

One store close by has the laptop in stock, and in the past a Harvey Norman store let me plug in my external hard drive to give Trainz a try to see how it would run, perhaps I should do this?

My old laptop was a HP and I had so much trouble with it that I do not feel like dealing with a HP laptop for a second time. I am also trying to find a laptop with an ATI video card in it as that is what I know and trust.

Thanks once again for all the replies!

Kieran.

 

[LNERlover5]

The Radeon R4 might get away with Trainz in it's current form. The problem is this solution offers little to no long term usage as software evolves due to the chips's lack of performance from the off. You might be fine now, but what about in a year or two when a mid to high end solution would have been far more practical, especially considering you won't be able to upgrade it since the R4 is integrated into the CPU?

The very best solution from a gaming and cost/performance ratio standpoint is a desktop. I understand that a tower may not be ideal for your needs, but it is the most practical solution.

*Don't look for the ATI branding also, the company was purchased by AMD in 2006. All graphics products are now branded as AMD Radeon.#

Jack.

 

[captainkman]

Hi Jack,

That's a good point you have there.

"Don't look for the ATI branding also, the company was purchased by AMD in 2006. All graphics products are now branded as AMD Radeon."

Sorry, that's my fault, I am a little stuck in the past. :hehe: I did mean to say AMD, not ATI.

Kieran.

 

[JCitron]

hey John,

I am not surprised by your experience with ACER products then or now one of the main reasons i started to build my own computers was i couldnt see the sense in buying IBM or ACER or HP when you could never get exactly what you wanted, unless you wanted to pay EXTRA BIG bucks for them, and then if something dies your usually stuffed as by the time it does they no longer support that model etc also Drivers were always an issue even way back in DOS 5 days(showing my age again OOPS) since sticking to brands like gigabyte or asus for MOBOs and similar for video i find there is never any real problem with drivers. If apart dies it is simple to replace except if the CPU has changed and your board dont support the new pin settings or your CPU is ok but your MOBO dies and they are not making that style CPU now, But i have found that computer markets and garage sales and even the op shops can be a good place to pick up a good cheap bargain from time to time. I will never buy a brand name computer again for all these reasons.

Cheers
Becky

I agree! At that time I was working for myself, well a family business, and had literally no time to build my own computer. I was running a typesetter system, a Varityper actually - also showing my age - during the day, and working as a computer operator most nights at a local company. I think I was putting in 16-hour days and not even thinking about it! Ah, only to be young again and do that! Anyway, in the end I ended up building my own machines and have ever since. It's not only less expensive, but I agree you get what you want right off from the start.

We used to have a big computer parts fleamarket that would come around my area once every couple of months. They were a great source for software and hardware, and I bought so many of my components at these shows that the dealers got to know me by name. Right now I don't need to go very far since my basement still has lots of older equipment on the shelves and in the cabinet. If I need a mouse, I go digging in one of the boxes first before purchasing one. There's nothing like having your own inventory.

John

 

[johnwhelan]

At this price point of the market place Intel integrated graphics and the HD are probably the best bet so the Dell works well http://www.dell.com/au/p/inspiron-15-3542-laptop/pd?oc=smx510743au&model_id=inspiron-15-3542-laptop. Compare them here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

The i3 isn't bad http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-3.html

The trouble with experience on one or two machines is its not enough. HP have some very solid machines, I have a second hand off lease HP desktop sitting in a store and it just works. For many years my feeling was that AMD/ATI offered better price performance especially in directX there were so interesting technical reasons for this but today nVidia offer quieter cards that use less power so if I was buying today I'd go nVidia.

If you were in the US or the UK or even Canada you'd have a much wider choice of machines. Amazon are in Aussy but they don't carry the range of items in other countries. If you can manage a desktop that should give you more options and be cheaper but you're not.

http://shop.asus.com/store/asusau/en_AU/pd/ThemeID.34023100/productID.310244100/categoryID.63675800

http://shop.asus.com/store/asusau/en_AU/pd/ThemeID.34023100/productID.309082600/categoryID.63675800

Might be reasonable choices. Normally they are just returns so not that old and are checked before shipping.

Dell i3 with HD4000 in reasonable case and power supply with monitor would set you back about $950 and that's the cheapest desktop I can spot at the moment.

HP only seem to have AMD CPU and they don't rate terribly highly at Toms. I can't see where to purchase ASUS desktops.

Dealing with Dell or HP directly usually saves you money as the retailer doesn't get a mark up. Personally I'd go with one of the ASUS laptops, the i5 for preference, that should work fine. TANE well there are so many HD4000 graphics laptops out there TANE has to work with them or they won't sell product.

Cheerio John

 

[captainkman]

Hi John,

This laptop is another option for us at the moment considering its discounted online price: http://www.harveynorman.com.au/computers-tablets/computers/laptops/hp-15-g027au-laptop.html

It has no touch screen, and a card reader which is something I see as an essential part for a laptop I purchase to have as I do a fair bit of photography and video work in my spare time, primarily at the model train club these days.

I am not sure how to look up the processor (AMD A6 on the laptop linked to above) on Tom's Hardware to compare it to the Radeon R4.

The top price Mother and I are willing to pay is $700.

Shared/integrated graphics has not been an issue for me Trainz-wise in the past and I do not expect it to be much of an issue in the future.

I have called a tech-savvy friend of ours named Steve who has advised us to go for that HP as opposed to the Acer mentioned earlier. It seems to be a good step-up from the 5-year-old Pavilion dv6 that I currently have that the screen died on.

I'll buy another HP laptop, just not another Pavilion.

Thanks for all the advice presented thus far.

Kieran.

 

[LNERlover5]

Hi John,

This laptop is another option for us at the moment considering its discounted online price: http://www.harveynorman.com.au/computers-tablets/computers/laptops/hp-15-g027au-laptop.html

Shared/integrated graphics has not been an issue for me Trainz-wise in the past and I do not expect it to be much of an issue in the future.

Kieran.

The APU in this notebook also has a Radeon R4 GPU. No gains there I'm afraid.

Sure, the lack of a GPU may have been fine up untill now as you say, but it's into the future that matters. These low power APU graphics chipsets in all likely hood won't suffice into the future, especially with T:ANE promising significant graphical improvements.

Jack.

 

[captainkman]

The APU in this notebook also has a Radeon R4 GPU. No gains there I'm afraid.

Jack.

D'oh!

Well, that seems to be all we can afford and it will meet my current Trainz and tertiary studies needs.

I'll go into a store that has one in stock and see if I can confirm the Trainz and GTA IV compatibility using my external hard drive.

Kieran.

 

[LNERlover5]

I'll go into a store that has one in stock and see if I can confirm the Trainz and GTA IV compatibility using my external hard drive.

Kieran.

While we're at it, forget GTA IV as well. It's an unoptimised, buggy mess that runs poorly on my desktop.