Need help with AI train(s)

J

jeff1959

Active member
I have a route that I am working on for my own fun. However, trying to get AI trains to run seems to be a lesson in futility. I have a portal on each end. I have two stations that I want the AI to stop at, load and unload passengers and move on. Here's a basic schematic:

Portal 1-------------Station 1--------------Station 2----------------Portal 2.

Portal 1 is set to produce trains, specifically one consist, Engine and Passenger coaches. Portal 2 is ready to consume trains. I tried "Navigate to Station 1, load, Navigate to Station 2, load, Navigate to Portal 2. The error says "No path to selected destination." I get the same error when I put TrackMarks at station 1 and 2; and using "Navigate to Trackmarks." I have track signs positioned along the path needed. I have no idea what I am doing wrong. Turnouts are all pre-set to clear the path for the AI trains.

What am I missing? I have searched for posts on the subject, but can't find the help I need. I appreciate someone pointing me to the right "path" :o to getting this AI train to work.
 
Hi Jeff

That message often means that there is a break in the track somewhere. Try placing a loco in Surveyor and then drive it manually in Driver. If there is a break then the loco will derail when it reaches it.

Regards

Brian
 
Try the "Call at" rule.

Also check if the tracks are connected or only look connected.
Next thing to check is if there actually is a connection between the locations. Does this connection pass any direction markers and if so are they all pointing in the right direction?

If the locations are too far apart, put some track markers in between and use "navigate via track marker" rules.
 
Discovered a missing junction. I added that and it ran fine. I realized I really need double track main line if I want trains to run both ways. Now putting in the second main line. Let's see what happens next. Thanks for the help.
 
Hi Jeff --

" I realized I really need double track main line if I want trains to run both ways."

That will certainly make life easier for you but it's not absolutely essential. In fact, it can be very entertaining watching AI trains running in opposite directions on a single track with passing loops. And it will work, providing it is set up correctly.

I have several sessions on the Download Station where, if you want to, you can sit back and watch it all happen. Then take the route and session apart to see how it's done.

See, for example, some of the sessions for Krashnburne and IntenCity. The words under the thumbnail will indicate the presence of AI trainz.

Phil
_____

Edit:

This video (made before I learnt how to do videos in HD) is a demonstration of AI trainz running at 4 minute intervals in opposite directions on a single track with crossing loops.

Until the 4 minute mark we are following one of the AI trainz. At 4 minutes into the video we jump into and control the green locomotive with two NP box cars. With a blast of the horn we are away, picking up an additional box car along the way.

The route was intended as trial to prove wrong those who claimed that it was impossible to run opposing AI on a single track. The route eventually evolved into "IntenCity".

 
Last edited:
Phil,

I can't wait until I can check out the video and play with your route. I played with my route and realize that unless I basically start over, including the geography, that double track main is simply not possible. Not only that, the railroad is not set as a "wealthy extravagant" line. Second hand loco's and rebuilds are more the norm.


I have also decided that the portal doesn't work quite right. The "consume trains" works, but not the "produce trains." "Staging tracks" work on for the producing trains part. I just need to work out the timing for the staged trains. I can hide the staging yards or put portals in once I get them to work. There's so much to learn. And it's so much FUN figuring it out :)
 
Jeff --

Tell me how you go. Use the 4-key external view to float around following the AI as they work their way round the route. You will find the AI will always take the right track at loops and, when necessary, wait for another AI to clear the section before proceeding.

Krashnburne uses "Signal Link" to make it easier for a player train to take control of a single track section of track. A description of this can be found here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...-a-Mexican-Standoff-with-Player-and-AI-trainz

If you are running just AI you don't need this.

The placing of signals, track markers and the routing instructions given to the AI is, however, absolutely critical. If you follow the exact layout of Krasnburne and IntenCity on you fledging route it should work. From what you have said I suspect that IntenCity may be very similar to your route, though mine is very much smaller.

Phil
 
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Phil
Thanks for your help. My idea is Ai trains passing through, while the local works the industries. Most are either on stub sidings or on a spur line. I've already laid passing sidings where needed. Now once I download your route and sessions, I can see how the signals are laid out and programed. Signals are a mystery to me right now. Im hoping your layout helps.
 
Jeff --

Experience has taught me that industrial spurs must be located off the loops. Spurs leading off single track sections just refuse to work with AI and Player trainz. Strand offs always occur. It's just one of the limitations of the simulation that needs to be worked around.

The best way to set them up is the way I've set up the yard at the upper level on Krashnburne and the lower yard with at Wood Wurms.

This link may be useful too:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...road-Company-quot-route&highlight=krashnburne

Phil
 
philskene said:
Jeff --

Experience has taught me that industrial spurs must be located off the loops. Spurs leading off single track sections just refuse to work with AI and Player trainz. Strand offs always occur. It's just one of the limitations of the simulation that needs to be worked around.

The best way to set them up is the way I've set up the yard at the upper level on Krashnburne and the lower yard with at Wood Wurms.

This link may be useful too:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...road-Company-quot-route&highlight=krashnburne

Phil
Click to expand...

My route is point to point. Are you suggesting that the industries come off the passing siding instead of the main? I've gotten AI trains to go from thw CNW interchange to the BN. Now to make sure they run the other way. Then to get them runnig in both at the same time.
 
"Are you suggesting that the industries come off the passing siding instead of the main?"

Absolutely. You may get it to work with spurs off the main line but, based on my experience, it may be more of an extremely painful S&M session for you.
 
philskene said:
Absolutely. You may get it to work with spurs off the main line but, based on my experience, it may be more of an extremely painful S&M session for you.
Click to expand...

OK, so far so good. I've gotten passing sidings added so the industries come off of the sidings instead of the main. Several industries are off what's almost a branch, which the AI won't be allowed near (yellow direction markers). I've added track markers for both southbound and northbound AI trains. I've had non-portal AI trains make the Northbound run successfully. There seems to be issues southbound.

Question: Should my train orders be "Navigate to" Track Marker 1,2,3,4 or "Navigate Via Track Marker 1,2,3,4" ?

I do appreciate the help.
 
jeff1959 said:
OK, so far so good. I've gotten passing sidings added so the industries come off of the sidings instead of the main. Several industries are off what's almost a branch, which the AI won't be allowed near (yellow direction markers). I've added track markers for both southbound and northbound AI trains. I've had non-portal AI trains make the Northbound run successfully. There seems to be issues southbound.

Question: Should my train orders be "Navigate to" Track Marker 1,2,3,4 or "Navigate Via Track Marker 1,2,3,4" ?

I do appreciate the help.
Click to expand...

Navigate To, the consist will stop, then do whats next on command list, Naviagate Via AI will stay at speed through track mark onto next command.
 
Yes, "Drive To" or "Navigate To".

I usually use "Central Portal Control", a rule that you have to add under "Edit Session Rules", top left of screen. It allows the portals to be all set up at one location and, most importantly, allows a train to be emitted as soon as the session begins.

There is another useful rule for longer routes with many trackmarks.

DriveToTrackmarkList, TRS2004, kuid:61392:1050. When naming the trackmarks, the brackets are vitally important.
Set up the trackmarks thus:
a(01)
a(02)
a(03) maximum a(99)
b(01)
b(02)
b(03) maximum b(99)
c(01)
c(02)
c(03) maximum c(99)
Then in Central Portal Control, add to the AI driver instructions with the appropriate list, eg a (or b, c, ... )

I have also found the location of signals and trackmarks important. In this screen shot, there is a trackmark midway between the two signals. The first signal is red because it has been activated by Signal Link because of a Player train approaching from the other direction. If you are only running AI then Signal Link is not necessary and so that signal will be either yellow or green, depending on the second signal indication. When signal #2 is green, #1 is green and the AI approaches at line speed. If #2 is red and if there is no #1 the AI will slow to a crawl way before reaching the signal because of the red signal it sees.

The signal at the entrance to the single track section also helps keep the AI under control as do intermediate signals along the single track sections.

Krashnburne_v2_02.jpg~original


I'd strongly recommend that you go to the location on Krashnburne show in the image above. Trust me, it's taken decades of experimentation with AI to get it working, and even then sometimes it don't. If you duplicate the arrangement on your route it will work, probably (nothing is absolutely certain with AI).

Phil
 

I usually use "Central Portal Control", a rule that you have to add under "Edit Session Rules", top left of screen. It allows the portals to be all set up at one location and, most importantly, allows a train to be emitted as soon as the session begins.


I will have to check this out when I get the chance to get into the route again.

I have also found the location of signals and trackmarks important. In this screen shot, there is a trackmark midway between the two signals. The first signal is red because it has been activated by Signal Link because of a Player train approaching from the other direction. If you are only running AI then Signal Link is not necessary and so that signal will be either yellow or green, depending on the second signal indication. When signal #2 is green, #1 is green and the AI approaches at line speed. If #2 is red and if there is no #1 the AI will slow to a crawl way before reaching the signal because of the red signal it sees. The signal at the entrance to the single track section also helps keep the AI under control as do intermediate signals along the single track sections.

Right now, I want to get the AI running across the route north and south before I worry about player trains. I still have a few places where signals aren't placed correctly. I suspect those are left divergence with the wrong signal.
 
Jeff --

At the moment I have some spare hours. Do you have a hosting site, like Dropbox? If so, would you like to uplaod your route there, provide me with a download link so that I can fiddle around with it?

If not I'll provide my email address.

Phil
 
OK. I have an error message being reported with the commands I have given to the passenger train driver(s). The commands are:
Drive to Trackmark "Augsburg NB"
Load
Drive to Trackmark "Concord NB"
Load
Navigate to "BN Outbound" (my North portal)
The error I get says, "Issue a 'Drive to' Command prior to the 'Load' command." It works if I replace Load with Wait for X, but then the doors don't open. What's happening here?

Also, I have trackmarks set up to keep the trains on the right hand side, but the ai trains seem to take main line instead. Again, what am I doing wrong?
 
You can't use the load command with the drive to trackmark command, you have to drive to an industry/station.

Peter
 
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