My solution to not being able to use older assets

[Dep]

Well I've come to the end of my rope with TS12. Pretty much everything I want to download and use is not useable in the newest version. So I am going to re-install TRS2004. The last straw was finding a bunch of my favorite locos, the FM Trainmaster, and then finding out they don't work in TS12. There is so little content available for TS12 that it's just not worth playing. Best thing I've found in TS12 is finishing the included scenarios. And even that is rather boring after a while.

 

[Sek_Hakuna]

Quote: There is so little content available for TS12 that it's just not worth playing.

That is just not true. In CMP it states in the lower right hand corner that I have 29,650 "working" items available to build routes.

Jankvis, (JVC), is creating extremely nice trees and plants for use in TS12. Let us not forget Dave Snow for his great contributions. And then there is Euphod who gave us so many reskins I have lost count. Mcguirel gave us a train load of new Track, matching ballast textures, environmental textures, TREEZ and SHRUBZ and GRAZZ.

With a little research and a few mouse cliks I was able to get 90% of Bdaneal's and Prowler's steam engines to work in TS12.

In CMP using the filters helps to find content that will work in TS12. Try using Minimum Build Version and typing in 2.7. That will usually get me around 28,000 items that are on the DLS and if I were to download any of them will work in TS12.

I am building routes in TS12 and am having a really great time. I have an abundance of content to choose from. So much content that I forget what is available and have to write it down in a notepad so I can bring it up later.

So much content..............so little time........

current project: Durango to Silverton 60% Complete
Randy

 

[Dep]

I'm not talking about routes. I am talking about LOCOS. NONE of the FM Trainmasters work in TS12. And most of the steam locos I want are missing dependencies that are no longer available. So they don't work either. I'm not into hacking files to make things work. So that option its out.
The only locos I got to work are the payware ones. I don't mind that, but a lot of the locos are modern versions and not older like the Trainmasters. One nice thing about TRS2004...NO SPEEDTREES. So framerates are smooth as silk.

 

[Sek_Hakuna]

OK, I'll try just one more time then. You said....Quote: There is so little content available for TS12 that it's just not worth playing.

Content creates the route. Without content a route cannot be created. Content would be trees, grass and, I suppose, Trainmasters.

There are many threads here about expecting 8 year old content to work in the current version of Trainz so I won't get into that.

Potential Trainz customers researching the Trainz products would perhaps browse the Trainz Forum and find YOUR post about..... Quote: There is so little content available for TS12 that it's just not worth playing, AND, think that TS12 is capoot and not worth buying. Where does that leave the future of Trainz?

Perhaps you meant to say...."I don't like TS12 because content I want to use was created 8 years ago will not work in the current version."

current project: Durango to Silverton 60.5% Complete
Randy

 

[npr284]

Hi All, I was thinking about getting TS12, but DEP has some valid points about it. I too have been using TRS2004 since it came out and have a wondeful layout where 38 trainz drivers run smoothly under AI. I have hundreds of locos, many of which I had to rework the config.txt file some to get them to behave, but it got easier as time went on. It really worries me about the CMP being "able" to sort everything out and get each added asset to work right in TS12. With all the hand editing I've had to do over the years now can easily see why DEP is having a hard time making older locos function right in TS12. And yes, The Trainmaster locos work "well" under TRS2004, but do have a bogey animation error that is picked up by the "log" file, so sadly do not use them. And DEP is right about the steam locos. There are many out there and I have most of them, but refrain from using them because of their inherent complexity with the bogies. Only a very few run well, with the possible exception of the ones I've found for 36" NG.

DEP, I would say, just enjoy TS12 for running scenarios and the few locos you have and just stay with TRS2004 as your main sim platform, for now.

FWIW, I "was" going to post a question asking if it might be possible to import my TRS2004 layout and the thousands of assets I have for it into TS12, but know better not to now.

It took many years for TRS2004 to come into its own and I'm glad I stuck with it. In as many years TS12 will too I guess, but by then it too will be like TRS2004, obsolete. Guess I'll wait for TS20.

What really turned me off to upgrading to "better" TRS platforms was the CMP in TRS2006. Many would be Trainzer's were so upset with this modification that was supposed to make life easier, that they just packed it in right there. I never could get the hang of the "CMP" either. So, guess you might say, I'm NOT buying TS12 for this reason.

Al

 

[schweitzerdude]

i thought the rule was

if it worked in TS2010 it will work in TS12. The original poster has TS2010 so I don't understand why he is having problems.

 

[sniper297]

Slight correction, if it worked in TS2010 NATIVE MODE it will work in TS12, but it's not guaranteed to work in TS12 multiplayer. People who are still using really old content in TS2010 without updating it often need to run in compatibility mode, TS12 has no compatibility mode. And a lot of the built in TS2010 content that was uploaded to make TS12 backward compatible works, but downloads and installs with the "locally modified" green triangle, and therefore sends the multiplayer compatibility checker into a conniption fit every time you start a multiplayer session that depends on the faulty "locally modified" assets. TS12 still needs work.

As for the Trainmaster, I have a back burner project that still needs work on the cabview, but;

It works in TS12 now.

 

[Beattie]

Well I've come to the end of my rope with TS12. Pretty much everything I want to download and use is not useable in the newest version. So I am going to re-install TRS2004. The last straw was finding a bunch of my favorite locos, the FM Trainmaster, and then finding out they don't work in TS12. There is so little content available for TS12 that it's just not worth playing. Best thing I've found in TS12 is finishing the included scenarios. And even that is rather boring after a while.

Instead of going that far back you can just go back to trainz 2010 and run it in compatibility mode.

 

[Dep]

There are many threads here about expecting 8 year old content to work in the current version of Trainz so I won't get into that.

Potential Trainz customers researching the Trainz products would perhaps browse the Trainz Forum and find YOUR post about..... Quote: There is so little content available for TS12 that it's just not worth playing, AND, think that TS12 is capoot and not worth buying. Where does that leave the future of Trainz?

Perhaps you meant to say...."I don't like TS12 because content I want to use was created 8 years ago will not work in the current version."

current project: Durango to Silverton 60.5% Complete
Randy

Randy:So you are saying there is MORE content for TS12 than there is for TRS2004? I don't think so. And my example WAS LOCOS...not routes. What good are the routes if the locos you want to use in them WON'T WORK? I am not alone in my feelings concerning previous content not being useable. Some wonderful things that were created for TRS2004 are now worthless. And there are plenty of people who have buyers remorse concerning TS12. Most of them are doing what I finally did....going back to previous versions. I resisted doing that but finally gave in. TS12 isn't kaput, but note that N3V is now GIVING AWAY all kinds of freebies including a free one year download station subscription as well as a bunch of payware extras just to get people to buy the Anniversary Edition.

NPR284/Al: Your suggestion is exactly what I am doing. I re-installed TRS2004 just to see what the FMs would look like. They look pretty darn good. Not spectacular, but good just the same. And they are available in roadnames I really wanted...Virginian and Erie Lackawanna. It's weird, but when I saw those FMs running it put a big smile on my face. Not something that happened with TS12.

schweitzerdude: One big problem with TS10 that is also in TS12...SpeedTrees. They aren't there in TRS2004 and I sure don't miss them.

Sniper: Put that baby on the FRONT burner!!!!! :wave: And if possible, can you make it in other road names like Virginian and Erie Lackawanna? Heck, make it in those two road names and I'll BUY IT from you!!!! :Y:
Quick question...does the PO&N route work in TRS2004?

Beattie: See my comment to schweitzerdude

 

[Euphod]

Well, I think going back to 2004 is a clever solution to the problem, there's no need to run the latest if the earlier versions fulfill your needs.

 

[Dep]

Well, I think going back to 2004 is a clever solution to the problem, there's no need to run the latest if the earlier versions fulfill your needs.

Thanks. My feelings exactly

 

[danny5]

Is there a trainz virsion that other then 04 that has been completely fixed before a new virsion come out?
NO 06 had a sound problem.
TS2010 speed tree
now TS12 with compalibile mode.
And ALL content creators have to buy TS12 in order to upgrade thier creations to build 3.6 and soon highter.
Why don't n3v just use one virsion of trainz and for a price add updates insted new virsions?
Fix problems for free but improvments at a price.like a way people could talk to each other while running a MP route. that would be a improvement

 

[martinvk]

Just to set the record straight for those contemplating getting the latest version, there is plenty of content that works error free in TS12 including a CN Trainmaster and more than a dozen steam engines. Interesting that many of the error free locos have older version tags so just because it'is old doesn't mean it can not work in TS12. That goes for many of the old content that was made for previous versions. Now if a favorite engine does not meet the threshold yet, convince its creator to update it.

 

[Dep]

Just to set the record straight for those contemplating getting the latest version, there is plenty of content that works error free in TS12 including a CN Trainmaster and more than a dozen steam engines. Interesting that many of the error free locos have older version tags so just because it'is old doesn't mean it can not work in TS12. That goes for many of the old content that was made for previous versions. Now if a favorite engine does not meet the threshold yet, convince its creator to update it.

I do stand corrected that there is ONE FM Trainmaster that is available for TS2012 (as compared to at least a half dozen for TRS2004). It's an ugly thing, but it does work. But I haven't found a dozen steam engines that work. Especially the NYC ones. ALL are missing content that is no longer available. And the one SD70ACe that is available doesn't work either. Most of the creators for older versions are long gone from the game, mainly because of policies made by Auran and N3V. And it seems creators for newer locos have surrendered to the payware sources and don't update what they have posted. Not necessarily a bad thing. At least the payware locos actually WORK and are generally of much higher quality than home made stuff.

 

[Dep]

Is there a trainz virsion that other then 04 that has been completely fixed before a new virsion come out?
NO 06 had a sound problem.
TS2010 speed tree
now TS12 with compalibile mode.
And ALL content creators have to buy TS12 in order to upgrade thier creations to build 3.6 and soon highter.
Why don't n3v just use one virsion of trainz and for a price add updates insted new virsions?
Fix problems for free but improvments at a price.like a way people could talk to each other while running a MP route. that would be a improvement

Notice the computer requirements from TRS2004 to TS12?

TRS2004:
Pentium III 733
256 MB RAM
Nvidia Geforce 32mb (or equivalent) videocard
Usable settings:
800x600 display resolution
32 bit color depth
No shadows, low draw distance, low draw detail, low train detail.

TS12:
Minimum

• Windows XP (SP3)
• 1GB RAM
• Pentium D 3.4GHz (or equivalent, dual core)
• nVidia Geforce 7200/128MB (or equivalent)
• 15GB Free Hard Drive Space

Recommended

• Windows Vista/Windows 7 (64bit)
• 2GB RAM
• Core 2 Duo (or equivalent)
• nVidia Geforce 8600 (or equivalent)
• 15GB Free Hard Drive Space

I can tell you right now Minimum specs for TS12 are a joke, and the Recommended specs for TS12 are under-rated. It should say 4 GIG of RAM and a high-end nVidia card. The GeForce 8600 is nearly obsolete.
N3V/Auran keeps adding to the game with all kinds of eye candy, but they are still using pretty much the same game engine. Instead of working on fixes to slow frame rates and other problems that have plagued the game since it's inception, they tell the consumer to buy a high end computer. Of course, that way they don't have to spend the time and effort (and cash to pay programmers) and the consumer is forced to spend his money on the high end computer.

 

[RRSignal]

Some of us are better at wringing performance out of a computer than others. People can, have and do run Trainz on much-below spec machines as well. My POS isn't much better.

 

[Dep]

Some of us are better at wringing performance out of a computer than others. People can, have and do run Trainz on much-below spec machines as well. My POS isn't much better.

Same with mine. Right now I am using a Pent 4 3.8GIG, 4 GIG of RAM, an nVidia 9800GT, and Windows XP Pro 32bit. Hardly state of the art gear. I have TS12 set at max for all options and, depending on the route, it runs pretty decent. My favorite route is the Port Ogden and Northern because no SpeedTrees lets it run as smooth as if it were on TRS2004. And it looks just fine to me.

My point was we have seen a constant increase in the system requirements for Trainz, but not much improvement in the actual game engine. Try driving through a trainyard full of rolling stock and pretty much any comp will be reduced to a slideshow. That's been the same situation with Trainz since the beginning. Those that say they can run the "framekiller" routes "just fine", are also using high end comps to do it on. MUCH higher than the Recommended specs N3V states. I find it pretty funny that N3V recommends Win 7 64bit, but only recommends 2GIG of RAM. The big advantage to 64bit systems is they go ABOVE the 4 GIG RAM limit of 32 bit systems. And Trainz wants and needs all the RAM and video card memory it can get.

Of course, there are also "workarounds" to slow framerates. Driving inside the cab of a loco will up the framerates considerably. But you also have a pretty limited view of anything from inside there. Or you can use a chase view looking directly down the top of the loco at close range. That gives a real nice view of the top of the loco and nothing else, but it also gives good framerates. I've tried setting the slider controls to all minimum levels. That didn't seem to do squat to improve performance. So I just leave them all maxed out.

 

[Euphod]

I'd hate to see this thread disintegrate into the typical shouting match between supporters of old and new versions. DEP has presented a simple and rather elegant solution that others may want to entertain. That is; use the version of Trainz that suits your needs, and stop trying to force the software to do your bidding. We should be glad Trainz has gone through the subtle changes that it has while remaining basically intact over the past ten years. The fact that content can be whipped into use in versions from the earliest to the latest is a testament to the strength of the program, not the weakness.

 

[Dep]

I'd hate to see this thread disintegrate into the typical shouting match between supporters of old and new versions. DEP has presented a simple and rather elegant solution that others may want to entertain. That is; use the version of Trainz that suits your needs, and stop trying to force the software to do your bidding. We should be glad Trainz has gone through the subtle changes that it has while remaining basically intact over the past ten years. The fact that content can be whipped into use in versions from the earliest to the latest is a testament to the strength of the program, not the weakness.

Well said. I have no intentions of getting into a shouting match with anyone. I use BOTH TS12 for the pre-loaded sessions and TRS2004 for the available downloads it has. I get the best of both worlds.

 

[JCitron]

I have always been the supporter of older software on older hardware. Over the years, I have updated to nearly the latest and greatest, and the not so of either category. I have also found that when using older hardware, it's not worth the effort trying to push something heavy on the machines. This is like using an old 1970s Dodge pick-up to carry a really heavy load. The truck may do it, but it'll be very inefficient. The same with computers. Why push older hardware such as a P4, which was great in its heyday, with the latest much heavier software and operating systems?

In some ways this was the bad rap that hit Microsoft Vista. They tried to sell this to the consumer market before the machine hardware was fast enough to support it. (This doesn't count the bad press right from the get-go). When you try to run something really resource heavy, it's going to suffer in some way.

So having said this... I always run older operating systems on older machines that ran them the best. Windows XP still lives on my old Gateway Tablet and Toshiba laptop. Windows 7 runs nicely on my desktop and Alienware laptop. Interesting point here. My Gateway was listed as supporting Vista. Well you could load it, and it would run, but after nearly 20 minutes before it would boot all the way up. There wasn't enough juice in the hardware to get out of its own way, let alone try to run Vista!

Anyway. When TRS2004 and prior came out, P4s were the king of the road, so use your older programs on the older hardware, and both will sing like the soprano at the nightly opera show.

John