My First Rant... Lack of descriptions on Routes/Sessons AGAIN. Maintain a TRS19 list?

[cascaderailroad]

My advice is to have a game installed on a second PC, and use that installation as a test bed for all the "rubbish" assets ... download a few and test them out ... If they are any good just write down the kuid, or print the kuid out in MS Notepad, and write a brief description, and what good it is

This use of a second PC keeps your other PC free of tons of "rubbish" assets, that can overwhelm your installation

You can rename them with a prefix in the config file username tag line, so you can later on easily find them, and delete them, ie: "TEST NYC Subway Tunnel"

 

[JCitron]

There has been talk on this subject off and on here in the forums and the topic came up among the Trainz Dev group at one point. There was some consideration on this by N3V, but like a lot of things when dealing with a small company, this fell to the back burner due to more pressing issues. Hopefully someday the upload requirements will change and enforce the description. Enforcing the thumbnail is already done, but sadly as has been pointed out, some users have resorted to generic images which do not represent the asset.

Over the years, I have resorted to not downloading anything that has no proper thumbnail. I'm probably missing out on some good stuff, but if I can't see what it is, I'm not downloading it. I got burned a few too many times in the past with that so I ain't gonna step in that mess again.

My installed routes are either my own creations and modifications, and rarely those from the DLS unless they are from the more famous content-creators, i.e. Dave Snow, George Fisher, and a few others after following some of the more popular routes mentioned in the Freeware announcements forum.

 

[cascaderailroad]

I guess that the Content Creation repair team is the only option, that would be able to totally edit the asset, and provide a preview image, and type in a description ... But that is a whole lot more work for them to be expected to do for us

 

[johnwhelan]

When you buy something online you have a field where you are asked to enter your credit card number. If you do not follow directions and don't enter your card info you get an error. Are you being censored? No. You are free to use your card but it is up to you to enter the correct information. There is some obligation with your freedom to use your card. This is not censorship. It is common sense.

And I guess I'm being censored every time I am forced to enter my username and password to get on the forums?

Content creation is a little different to buying something with a credit card. I'll quote from an email that came in today."I should make you aware that this is my very first attempt at model making in any medium, so I be ever so Very green, extremely frustrated most of the time, and generally lacking knowledge on all fronts."

That particular creator has been working on the same building now for nearly five months. I know when I'm creating sometimes I get to the point where I just want it out the door. If you're making variations of something then you can end up with a dozen or so assets with similar names. Usually you're making them for one particular layout maker who understands exactly what they are.

Bendorsey is one interesting content maker. He's died a while ago but have a look at his assets. There are lots of them with very similar names, some have no thumbnails true but talk to any major layout content creator and they have almost certainly used his content.

The content on the DLS is free. You didn't need to spend six months making it. I think one carriage took me two years to put together. You'll soon find content creators that create the sort of thing you're interested in. Just go for their content. Thumbnails only give a general idea of what the asset is, you really need to download the asset to get a better idea. There is a preview mode in CM, use it. Then delete the content that is 300,000 polys with no lod.

Don't bug content creators we don't have enough of them especially those who can create high quality content.

Cheerio John

 

[davesnow]

Why hasn't someone pointed out that perhaps Trainz needs a Rating System from USERS? Other sims, FPS user-made maps, and games with map-making and asset-creation abilities have this. A "Star" rating type system is what I'm talking about. Users can rate the asset, route, etc. and N3V wouldn't have to worry about it.

* : Poor
** : Fair
*** : Average
**** : Above Average
***** : Excellent


Just a thought. . . .

 

[JCitron]

Why hasn't someone pointed out that perhaps Trainz needs a Rating System from USERS? Other sims, FPS user-made maps, and games with map-making and asset-creation abilities have this. A "Star" rating type system is what I'm talking about. Users can rate the asset, route, etc. and N3V wouldn't have to worry about it.

* : Poor
** : Fair
*** : Average
**** : Above Average
***** : Excellent


Just a thought. . . .

Tony actually caught on to this and has mentioned they're working on something. When it happens, well we know how things go with Trainz… Soon(tm) is probably a good estimate.

 

[1611mac]

Content creation is a little different to buying something with a credit card. I'll quote from an email that came in today."I should make you aware that this is my very first attempt at model making in any medium, so I be ever so Very green, extremely frustrated most of the time, and generally lacking knowledge on all fronts."

That particular creator has been working on the same building now for nearly five months. I know when I'm creating sometimes I get to the point where I just want it out the door. If you're making variations of something then you can end up with a dozen or so assets with similar names. Usually you're making them for one particular layout maker who understands exactly what they are.

Bendorsey is one interesting content maker. He's died a while ago but have a look at his assets. There are lots of them with very similar names, some have no thumbnails true but talk to any major layout content creator and they have almost certainly used his content.

The content on the DLS is free. You didn't need to spend six months making it. I think one carriage took me two years to put together. You'll soon find content creators that create the sort of thing you're interested in. Just go for their content. Thumbnails only give a general idea of what the asset is, you really need to download the asset to get a better idea. There is a preview mode in CM, use it. Then delete the content that is 300,000 polys with no lod.

Don't bug content creators we don't have enough of them especially those who can create high quality content.

Cheerio John

John, I love the content creators. I'm trying to make a route myself and I can see just how much talent and time it takes. I assure you, this is not about stifling creativity. I simply ask... If a content creator worked on a single item for two years, or five months, or whatever... why wouldn't they want to take five minutes to describe it? What is so "bothersome" about a one paragraph description to help out newbies like me who don't know who the good creators are nor know how to check "300,000 polys with no lod?" How long does it take me to type "20 panel shunting route done in TRS19"????

By the way... How do you check for 300,000 poly's with no lod????? How do I learn "good content for poor content other than simply "by eye?"

Thanks John.. I do appreciate your comments.

 

[grazlash]

Here you go.
https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...es-TANE-Friendly-Classics-The-best-of-the-DLS
Maybe we can add a few more to it.
cheers
Graeme

 

[pware]

Why hasn't someone pointed out that perhaps Trainz needs a Rating System from USERS? ... A "Star" rating type system is what I'm talking about. Users can rate the asset, route, etc. and N3V wouldn't have to worry about it.

Tony actually caught on to this and has mentioned they're working on something. When it happens, well we know how things go with Trainz… Soon(tm) is probably a good estimate.

In theory a rating system is a great idea and I will be interested to see what N3V eventually comes out with. However, as others have pointed out each time the idea is raised, there are many pitfalls.

For example: A rating based on the number of downloads may work for routes and sessions that prove to be very popular but if one of those routes contains a poorly made scenery item (no LOD, bad textures, poor design, high poly, etc) then its rating would also be boosted because each time the route is downloaded it will also be downloaded.

Ratings can also be a very personal thing - just look at movie reviews (some movies I loved were rubbished by the critics).

Past versions of Trainz did come with a rating system for routes and possibly sessions but they were ratings that you gave yourself and were not from N3V or other users.

Perhaps a rating system based entirely on an asset meeting technical standards, not aesthetics, might work but it may not be simple for non-technical users to understand.

My thought only.

 

[johnwhelan]

John, I love the content creators. I'm trying to make a route myself and I can see just how much talent and time it takes. I assure you, this is not about stifling creativity. I simply ask... If a content creator worked on a single item for two years, or five months, or whatever... why wouldn't they want to take five minutes to describe it? What is so "bothersome" about a one paragraph description to help out newbies like me who don't know who the good creators are nor know how to check "300,000 polys with no lod?" How long does it take me to type "20 panel shunting route done in TRS19"????

By the way... How do you check for 300,000 poly's with no lod????? How do I learn "good content for poor content other than simply "by eye?"

Thanks John.. I do appreciate your comments.

In Mange content right click and go to open, then preview asset. On the right you'll see the poly count. Zoom out and you'll see it drop if it has lod. Watch the draw calls as well. The fewer there are the better it will perform. It's not the complete answer for example the 17_5 rolling stock I built shows as 3,200 polys but it shores its bogey and underframe and because the game engine only has to draw it once effectively it is about 50 polys when used on Middleton for laptops.

I think most of my work has screenshots but mainly because my beta tester doesn't mind doing them. You need a team to create content and people who are interested in the Blender side may not be interested in taking a good screenshot. Also notice how they vary in size kuid2:86627:101150:1 and kuid:86627:100915 have different sizes of screenshot. Taking a good screenshot is an art amongst other things. The other side of it is I've got this bloody thing finished, having spent two weeks tying to get it through the latest error checking for the DLS I just don't want to spend any more time on it including screenshots.

Better error checking is fine but it can add to the frustration.

Cheerio John

 

[1611mac]

In Mange content right click and go to open, then preview asset. On the right you'll see the poly count. Zoom out and you'll see it drop if it has lod. Watch the draw calls as well. -snip-
Better error checking is fine but it can add to the frustration.
Cheerio John

Thanks John. Much appreciated.

 

[1611mac]

Here you go.
https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...es-TANE-Friendly-Classics-The-best-of-the-DLS
Maybe we can add a few more to it.
cheers
Graeme

Thanks for that link. Should we do a "TRS19" list including T:ANE routes that work well in TRS19?

And yes, "lists" do have a problem. One person may prefer routes that are prototypically accurate and masterpieces while another may prefer shorter, shunting, lot's of switching routes. Another issue is that once an item is on a list it is only natural that people will see it, download it, and it becomes even more popular. It's like "trending" lists. They may reflect what's being downloaded but do they reflect what's truly well done. And a fantastic new route by a new participant could easily be ignored. I don't know... just rambling. I'm new around here and "just finding my way."

 

[blueodessey]

I strive to keep my work area Photo and description neat for order and preference....

Since I got TRS19, that was one of the items that got to me, as TRS19 is very visual now, so I spent a day, going thru all of my Routes,, including my downloads, and fixing the Preview errors in Route Photos and now all of my Routes have a Preview Photo of the Route, and if it doesn't have a description, then I added one to keep my Sanity, I guess you could say I'm a little, or a lot OCD with certain things.

When I open my Surveyor in TRS19, I want to see pictures and descriptions on my personal Game........granted I probably have more Routes than I should downloaded now with new ROG ASUS, but fun is what I want, and I don't like having to stop and figure what I think should already be there.....Order in the Chaos, I've accepted the fact that our DSL is the way it is, so I do my best to keep my playground tidy as I can.......

I would like to see a Rating System for DSL Assets if that ever comes about........

:hehe: The Sign of Clean Desk or Work area is a Sick Mind.......So there you have it......LOL

 

[grazlash]

I found some real gems among those lists and there really is something for everyone. It would be exceptionally rare to find a new user making a quality route, as there are so many things to learn in route building and a steep learning curve to contend with. My first route is testament to that, my second was a 400km route where the difference between the first 40km and the last 40km is chalk and cheese. My favorite route gleaned from the lists is Morristown & Erie by GFisher, plenty to do on the route and an easy update to TRS19 standard.
cheers
Graeme

 

[1611mac]

Since I got TRS19, that was one of the items that got to me, as TRS19 is very visual now, so I spent a day, going thru all of my Routes,, including my downloads, and fixing the Preview errors in Route Photos and now all of my Routes have a Preview Photo of the Route, and if it doesn't have a description, then I added one to keep my Sanity, I guess you could say I'm a little, or a lot OCD with certain things.

When I open my Surveyor in TRS19, I want to see pictures and descriptions on my personal Game........granted I probably have more Routes than I should downloaded now with new ROG ASUS, but fun is what I want, and I don't like having to stop and figure what I think should already be there.....Order in the Chaos, I've accepted the fact that our DSL is the way it is, so I do my best to keep my playground tidy as I can.......
:hehe: The Sign of Clean Desk or Work area is a Sick Mind.......So there you have it......LOL

I understand. I can't stand the thought of not knowing where a Loco or or piece of rolling stock initially came from so from day one (after I trashed my build folder and restarted) I log every loco and rolling item that was added by the route download. (Not EACH item for first and last item as seen in "MY Collection" window.) For example, I can tell you that when I downloaded Cotton Belt route 52 loco's, boats, combines, and such (classed as a "loco") was added. "Short Line RR" route added 232 pieces of rolling stock. I keep track of date/time route was downloaded so again, I can always match up assets to route downloads if need be. What use is this info?? Questionable. But that's just me. I have to know where it initially came from. It's a sickness. I can't imagine trying to check each one for quality, etc. Perhaps it's just a question of trashing the ones you really don't like when you happen to see them.

 

[1611mac]

Since I got TRS19, that was one of the items that got to me, as TRS19 is very visual now, so I spent a day, going thru all of my Routes,, including my downloads, and fixing the Preview errors in Route Photos and now all of my Routes have a Preview Photo of the Route, and if it doesn't have a description, then I added one to keep my Sanity, I guess you could say I'm a little, or a lot OCD with certain things.

When I open my Surveyor in TRS19, I want to see pictures and descriptions on my personal Game........granted I probably have more Routes than I should downloaded now with new ROG ASUS, but fun is what I want, and I don't like having to stop and figure what I think should already be there.....Order in the Chaos, I've accepted the fact that our DSL is the way it is, so I do my best to keep my playground tidy as I can.......
:hehe: The Sign of Clean Desk or Work area is a Sick Mind.......So there you have it......LOL

I understand. I can't stand the thought of not knowing where a Loco or or piece of rolling stock initially came from so from day one (after I trashed my build folder and restarted) I log every loco and rolling item that was added by the route download. (Not EACH item. I log first and last item as seen in "MY Collection" window.) For example, I can tell you that when I downloaded Cotton Belt route 52 loco's, boats, combines, and such (classed as a "loco") was added. "Short Line RR" route added 232 pieces of rolling stock. I keep track of date/time route was downloaded so again, I can always match up assets to route downloads if need be. What use is this info?? Questionable. But that's just me. I have to know where it initially came from. It's a sickness. I can't imagine trying to check each one for quality, etc. Perhaps it's just a question of trashing the ones you really don't like when you happen to see them.

 

[Matt3985]

Personally the main issue I see with this is that ever since they granted access to the DLS to the iPhone, iPad, and Android, that’s was when this whole mess started, before that, junk routes were not a huge presence on the DLS as they are now.

 

[1611mac]

I hadn't even considered that. Some of the routes on DLS come from mobile devices? That explains a LOT....

 

[JCitron]

I understand. I can't stand the thought of not knowing where a Loco or or piece of rolling stock initially came from so from day one (after I trashed my build folder and restarted) I log every loco and rolling item that was added by the route download. (Not EACH item. I log first and last item as seen in "MY Collection" window.) For example, I can tell you that when I downloaded Cotton Belt route 52 loco's, boats, combines, and such (classed as a "loco") was added. "Short Line RR" route added 232 pieces of rolling stock. I keep track of date/time route was downloaded so again, I can always match up assets to route downloads if need be. What use is this info?? Questionable. But that's just me. I have to know where it initially came from. It's a sickness. I can't imagine trying to check each one for quality, etc. Perhaps it's just a question of trashing the ones you really don't like when you happen to see them.

I haven't done that with stuff off the DLS,or installed with DLC, but I did do that with my assets I downloaded from Jointed Rail. The locomotives and rolling stock especially because these are purchased items and I would like to use them. A simple Excel spreadsheet setup with Asset, KUID, author is all that's needed in this case.

In between my regular Trainzing, I've taken some time out and have been spending some time in Content Manager throwing away assets. These are really old assets that haven't been used in a decade (not kidding), and it's time they go. I select a bunch, based on build and author, and check for dependents. If there are none, I delete them. Many of these came in when I would download a ton of stuff every month during my earlier Trainzing years. Today I think I'm a bit more choosy and wiser, and are more picky about what I download so it's a matter of going through the old stuff and clean it up. There's nothing wrong with these assets other than being really old. They looked good, or at least I thought, in the respectable builds they were created for, but many of these are past their prime now and it's time to let them go.

 

[johnwhelan]

You might find content by whitepass to your taste.

Cheerio John