Motherboard Meltdown

gearhead2578

New member
So I did some learning this past week..... A couple years back I started this new system with cutting edge tech - AM3 slot and DDR3 so I could upgrade my CPU later. Last week my new CPU arrived so out comes the AthlonIIx3 435 2.9GHz and in goes the PhenomIIx4 975 BE 3.6GHz...... Little did I pay attention to the little 4 pin plug that the PSU supplies power to the CPU with.... Also put in the Radeon HD6870 and a 650W PSU..... Found it ran hot even with my big bad "Ford truck radiator" lookin cooler (50-55C at idle). So I started Trainz and cooked the mobo..... Just a word to the wise here, if your processor runs at something like 140W+, make sure your PSU and motherboard have the 8 PIN PLUG and not the 4 pin as it won't allow enough curret to supply the CPU and will fry!!! A few hundred $ later and I'm back up and running (had to reinstall Win7 and hunt .dll files for Trainz, let alone the registry..) Sometimes it's the little things that make it all turn South!! The moral of the story is... research, research, research - just cause it plugs in don't mean it'll run right!!

Mike
 
So you've learned something the hard way, like most of us do.
Just read your sig " enough hard drive to store your fat sister " made me chuckle. Is that before or after wasting money going to weightwatchers.
 
hahaha no doubt - I've been tinkering around building PCs for years and didn't figure on that just thought it was some good knowledge for folks. Who knows, I might save some poor schmuck from making the same mistake I did!
 
Interesting as I was running a Phenom II X4 970(3.5GHz) with a single 4 pin just fine for a few months before replacing my PSU to a beefer one, and then I took the cover off the other 4 pins on the motherboard and plugged in the 8 pin power connection.
 
Interesting as I was running a Phenom II X4 970(3.5GHz) with a single 4 pin just fine for a few months before replacing my PSU to a beefer one, and then I took the cover off the other 4 pins on the motherboard and plugged in the 8 pin power connection.

I've done things like this too including putting a CPU in the socket incorrectly, munching pins, and smelling smoke. Chock this one into the archives for future reference... I hope you'd remember what happened. I've been dumb too and forgotten important things like this after being burned before!

Last year I had a motherboard, power supply, video card, and 2/3 hard drives fry on me. What took it out? I'll never know. All I can say is back up, back up, and did I say back up that data! I lost 86GB of documents, pictures and videos. (90% of my stuff was videos from storm chasing trips). I'm still looking for documents and stuff a year later. I became lazy with my backups and my backup drive, which got cooked too along with the main drive! Anyway my Trainz drive remained intact, and didn't lose my routes or anything! Whew! I don't know if losing documents and videos is as bad as I thought. At least my Trainz stuff was intact. Now because of this I do weekly backups of my stuff. I was being a total lazy idtiot! Me of all people, who has worked in the IT industry as a computer operator doing backups for almost 25 years, got lazy with back ups and got burned.

John
 
I had it blamed on he power plug - ormaybe it was just the fact that that mobo wasn't designed to move that much current. As soon as it went in it was running hot. Either way it was over 2yrs old, so what the heck. I'm running the same processor now in a newer and better board with the same cooler and all and it's soooo much better - so maybe it was a mixed blessing!

You're absolutely right about backup, John and luckily I had my OS on it's own drive o not much lost with the reinstall - just had to hunt .dll files for trainz
 
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I've done things like this too including putting a CPU in the socket incorrectly, munching pins, and smelling smoke. Chock this one into the archives for future reference... I hope you'd remember what happened. I've been dumb too and forgotten important things like this after being burned before!

Last year I had a motherboard, power supply, video card, and 2/3 hard drives fry on me. What took it out? I'll never know. All I can say is back up, back up, and did I say back up that data! I lost 86GB of documents, pictures and videos. (90% of my stuff was videos from storm chasing trips). I'm still looking for documents and stuff a year later. I became lazy with my backups and my backup drive, which got cooked too along with the main drive! Anyway my Trainz drive remained intact, and didn't lose my routes or anything! Whew! I don't know if losing documents and videos is as bad as I thought. At least my Trainz stuff was intact. Now because of this I do weekly backups of my stuff. I was being a total lazy idtiot! Me of all people, who has worked in the IT industry as a computer operator doing backups for almost 25 years, got lazy with back ups and got burned.

John
Yea same here John! I also have put a processor in incorrectly, although it felt like it was in right, put the heatsink on, and then you hear crunch. Or you don't hear anything and just see the computer spinning it's fans...Then take the heatsink off and find that you have broken or severely bent 8 pins or so..Then you try and straighten them out and break a few more off, or 1 pin lodges itself in the motherboard and you cannot get it out...been there done that.

I also got lazy with my backups prior to the processor incident,I was running off a single 160GB hard drive that had been running faithfully for 8 years or so(original HDD that came with the computer), until it finally died and I lost almost everything. Except for the backups I had done a few months back onto my other computer....I do not use a RAID but I use Norton Ghost to back up the drives, to my external, but I now need a bigger external as the drives have collected much more crap and only 1 backup can fit.

Before those incidents I was in the field of computers for about 6 years, and I just was to lazy after dealing with the problems all day with other peoples machines I just did not want to deal with my own. I just wanted to come home check my emails and go about my daily trainz life... now I have been in the field for another 2 years and only now really have I done any sort of backup.
 
Yea same here John! I also have put a processor in incorrectly, although it felt like it was in right, put the heatsink on, and then you hear crunch. Or you don't hear anything and just see the computer spinning it's fans...Then take the heatsink off and find that you have broken or severely bent 8 pins or so..Then you try and straighten them out and break a few more off, or 1 pin lodges itself in the motherboard and you cannot get it out...been there done that.

I also got lazy with my backups prior to the processor incident,I was running off a single 160GB hard drive that had been running faithfully for 8 years or so(original HDD that came with the computer), until it finally died and I lost almost everything. Except for the backups I had done a few months back onto my other computer....I do not use a RAID but I use Norton Ghost to back up the drives, to my external, but I now need a bigger external as the drives have collected much more crap and only 1 backup can fit.

Before those incidents I was in the field of computers for about 6 years, and I just was to lazy after dealing with the problems all day with other peoples machines I just did not want to deal with my own. I just wanted to come home check my emails and go about my daily trainz life... now I have been in the field for another 2 years and only now really have I done any sort of backup.

You hit the nail on the head, dude. I too work with people's computer problems all day too - over 600 of them. The whining, complaining, grumping, not listening, etc. I too just like to play when I get home, so I kept skipping the backups. My drives weren't new, but they weren't that old either, which really got me. I paid quite a bit for these 1TB drives when they came out, and now they've gone to hardware heaven. Oh I could have the data recovered, I suppose, but is it worth it for my resume and some videos I created? The other thing too is the recovered data isn't always necessarily readable either some may be, and some my not be. It's just how the data is on the drives.

Ghost is a good way to image your machine. Have you thought of doing a separate image for your data only? This might save you space and time since you're not trying to capture everything at once.

That pin crunch is so too familiar! I've done that more than once myself, and I'll never live down the time when my brother asked me for help putting in his Apple 68k math chip. I crunched all the pins as I put it in the socket backwards. There was really no way of knowing which way it went because neither the socket nor the chip was well marked. There was a tiny, intsie, weenstie, notch on the chip and a slight indentation on the socket. Who could tell unless you were an Apple expert? Well I got the flack over that for years and still do.

In my ancient times, I used to work as a hardware technician, fixing circuit boards, running wires, and replacing chips. I had seen more bent pins on systems than you'd believe, and became quite proficient at fixing them. I still had breakage though and lost a few pins in sockets. After quite some time, perhaps being out of the business for nearly 6 years, my old Varityper, which I've mentioned off and on here, started acting up. We were getting funny blocks on the display. Thinking the problem was a memory issue, which it was, I took the memory boards out and start to check the chips. Each chip was in a socket, and my thought was they were just loose from chip creap which happens as the boards heat up and cool down. My hunch was very right. There were loose chips alright. A bank of 4164s (1 x 64kb) DRAM chip had 3 chips with bent legs. I was able to unbend them, and we never had the weird memory errors after that!

I had it blamed on he power plug - ormaybe it was just the fact that that mobo wasn't designed to move that much current. As soon as it went in it was running hot. Either way it was over 2yrs old, so what the heck. I'm running the same processor now in a newer and better board with the same cooler and all and it's soooo much better - so maybe it was a mixed blessing!

You're absolutely right about backup, John and luckily I had my OS on it's own drive o not much lost with the reinstall - just had to hunt .dll files for trainz

That's good news on your backups.

The power draw may have been because that motherboard was that much older. The older board may have had issues running with more current. Perhaps a voltage regulator was on the outs, or getting marginally worse, so that it died when you put in the chip that sucked in more juice. This is quite common as older parts wear out. 2 years today is a lifetime for computer components. As they say, they don't make them like they used to. Parts are made to the lowest quality level they can get away with today, and the overall quality of everything shows that fully.

I've also seen that with RAM. Where an older motherboard just can't handle the newer RAM even though it was spec'd for it. It wasn't so much the power draw, but the RAM operated at better specs, and the older board was flaky and noisy. This caused memory issues with the new DIMMS, but the older ones, which came with the system, would work fine.


John
 
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LMAO Yea you had your fair share so far of flak. I am sure I have a lot in store for me as well. I've broken a few processors here at work as well. Again...the most memorable was an AMD chip the pins are placed to that you cannot grasp the processor without you running the risk of bending the pins on the outside..I grabbed it unknowingly bent the pins, then put it on top of the socket to maneuver it into place, it dropped down as if it fell into place, lock it down, or so i thought, then clamped the heat sink down.. Lo and behold the computer didn't work(Gee I wonder why! LMAO) So i took the heatsink off then took the processor out, turned it over and to my dismay 1 entire corner looked like it got mowed down with nuclear blast where the trees bend over at weird angles. I slowly went about straightening them out 1 by 1.. Shockingly NONE broke, then I slide it into the socket and amazingly enough it worked!

I do do a separate backup for just my pictures documents etc that is independent and outside of ghost...But I need an external anyway since my laptop now needs to be backed up regularly. It seems people with desktops are a little smarter when it comes to backing things up as opposed to laptops. Only my opinion from what I see here at my job though, as I see more people crying etc about all the stuff being lost from a laptop as opposed to desktops. but i suppose that is partially the way they are used to...Laptops tend to be sitting on beds etc where they get so hot they just have a meltdown essentially.
 
Ah yes, the backups - definitely best to pluralise them. :)

I once lost a number of docs at work (long ago, before I retired) that represented months of research and work. It's a bad feeling. At least I had some prints albeit it was tedious to type them all in again. (They wouldn't cough up for OCR).

The worst thing was that the organisation I worked for supposedly did the backups via their network. It turned out they did taped backups that were never tested and were in fact corrupt. I now take responsibility for my own backups. I don't have enough confidence in "cloud" backups where someone else is actually doing and keeping them (maybe).

Some things matter more than others. It's convenient to be able to auto-rebuild from a system backup but most will have the original O/S disk anyway, along with original programs disks. However, in the days of digital downloads, it pays to keep a backup of the file. Some vendors will let you re-download the software but others are very naughty and want to charge you for it again.

It's the worst when you lose things like photos, which are irreplaceable. Trainz data could always be re-downloaded but if you're like me you will have endless numbers of self-fixed items and all sorts of amended routes/sessions that took hours & hours to make.

So I keep 3 backups: one on a separate hard disk in the PC, one on an external HD permanently connected to the PC and a 3rd on another external HD that also gets kept in another building (my woodworking shed) apart from the couple of hours when it is re-connected to the PC and got up-to-date each week.

The advent of Windows7 saw a much better Windows native backup and recovery service. It works automatically once set up, updating only changes after taking the intial image (unless the changes are vast). I know it works because I tested it by doing both a system and a data rebuild to a different disk from the BU disk. No problems at all. If you do a lot of changes in a day, it's also possible to tell it, "Do a backup now" but its not a real-time BU service. Otherwise I have it set up to perform the backup every week.

The ladywife has a real-time backup program that came "free" with a Samsung external hard disk. It seems to work very well but only handles data files; it can't take a system image. It doesn't seem to slow her laptop down despite writing changes to the backup file on her external BU hard disk as and when they're written to the laptop hard disk.


A couple of years ago our local substation went through a series of brown-outs and voltage spikes, who knows why. Before the lecky company rebuild the offending switchgear those spikes fried a number of computers hereabouts, including mine. "Luckily" it did for motherboards and processors rather than hard disks.

So, I now have a nice Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) atween the PC and the mains. I bought a Belkin, which is quite good (4 outlets, monitoring software) but there are others. Unfortunately, you will need an expensive one if you want to drive a big PC power supply and/or the screen/monitor as well. The one I got was around £150 and handles the 650W PC power supply as well as a couple of small transformers for external hard disks. But it chokes on the monitor if I add that. Generally monitors are more tolerant of voltage shenanigans though.

Such a UPS is less expensive than a fried MB & processor, if your electricity has those spikes and other nasties in them. A good UPS smooths all that away. And you won't necessarily know if your electricity supply is in fact less stable than it ought to be.... It could be cookin' your mother right now!

Lataxe
 
@Gandalf0444 - Crunch! Gack! That is really an awful feeling in the stomach when that happens. You were very lucky nothing shorted out the chip when you put it in the socket. Today that's not so much of a problem because of the ZIF packaging the chips come in today. That Zero Insertion Force. The chips don't have the pins; the socket does instead. The thing is with the new sockets, you really have to be careful because the pins are really like thin blades that really bend easy. (Guess how I found out!).

There's nothing worse than putting a chip down on the table then putting something on top of it. And I still don't live down the crunched math chip. Periodically, I get reminded in a kidding fashion, which is common in my house anyway. That thing cost over $750 close to 20 years ago! I replaced it for my bro though, so I made up for it. I let him put the replacement in. But still the poking is still there. He's good that way. :)


I like your idea of backups. Ghost is great for system backups, I agree. We use it to image new machines, or reimage old ones that have been trashed at work. Data should be backed up separately anyway. I tend to want to backup a laptop more than a desktop because laptops are smaller and weaker, and the hard drives are bounced around more. My desktop system was brand new when it pulled its nasty trick. After that I bought two 1TB backup drives and I alternate between them. One is a USB 3.0 and the other is an ESATA.


@Lataxe,

For years I worked as a computer operator, handling the backups of VAXs, IBM Mainframes, and other servers. In my more recent years, I backed up Windows and Unix servers. We used tapes, initially the big reel-to-reel things like you see in the movies, and later using DLTs. As you pointed out your guys never tested the tapes. For us this became a regular practice, and we'd restore randomly chosen tapes from the libraries every month just to see if we could do a complete restore. We even went as far as choosing a separate test system so we wouldn't accidently overwrite a production server. We never had a bad backup in all that time. In my later years, I worked for 12 years for the same company. I did full backups every week, with incrementals in between. In all those years, I did two restores. One file was about 200K and the other was about 40K. The funny thing is both the so-called lost files were there on the user's local systems all the time. They panicked with they couldn't find the files, and told me after I had just restored their data.

I agree with you on the cloud thing. This is pretty scary when you think about it. I don't trust putting my information up on somone elses system. This is my data and I take care of my stuff my way. Oracle Corp, where I work does not backup end-user's data. The user is responsible for this, and does not value lost user information. This is a pretty precarious situation to be in, and I nearly passed out when I heard this! So, because corporate doesn't backup user data, I've taken it upon myself to educate the users to do this. They're getting better, but there are those who have lost everything. Shame on them when it happens they know better, but are lazy.

What you paid for your UPS is about what they cost here for the same size (converting GBP to USD). I paid about $200 (365 GBP) a couple of years ago for a 1200VA one from APS. In the past, in the big computer rooms and later on, I used the APS UPSs, which are high quality. The batteries are replaceable, and there is monitoring software for the unit if I want to install it. I don't bother because I don't want that one extra thing running on my system. I plug everything into the unit including my digital harpsicord (a Roland C-30), which is an expensive professional keyboard instrument. The UPS has saved me a few times, although I did have one blow up a number of years ago. The electric company swapped a ground with a power line, and that took out my UPS and computer plugged into it along with our TV, microwave oven, and a few other appliances. Our home insurance covered most of the damage, and the utility company took care of the rest.

John
 
lmao oh yea your heart sinks and your stomach rises to inside your throat, then your heart falls down to where you stomach used to be.
I know Intel has adopted that ZIF, but has AMD? I know the AM3 Phenom IIs did not. Perhaps the newer AM3+ chips do? The way the socket is setup as far as inserting the CPU has been the same since socket 939 with the exception of the order of the pins of course..

If you are using Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste on an AMD chip, be prepared to have the heatsink rip the processor out along with it as it is not held down from the top like an Intel processor is with the metal flap that goes over the chip. AMD just kinda has it sitting there and you move a little lever that "locks" it....I have had my fair share of those with AMD where the processor would just come flying out with the heatsink...Bent a few pins usually when it came flying out. If not then you would most likely do it when you were scraping and pushing the CPU to the edge of the heatsink so it would come off...otherwise if you tried to just pry if off by grabbing it you would bend even more pins with your fingers.
 
AMD never did get the lock right for their CPUs, I agree - the trick there is to gently twist the heat sink slightly back and forth until it breaks loose (had a few come ripping out by pulling up). You've got to have the kid gloves on when you do it! I still run AMD just because of the "bang-for-the-buck" factor. Time for better cooling though, as I'm running this cooler - http://www.frys.com/product/6262690?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG , and with the AthlonII x3 it did fine, but now it's getting a bit close to the max temp threshold for my taste with the PhenomII. Thought about going to liquid cooling, but that makes me nervous.
 
When I built up my last machine, I too was VERRRRRRY skeptical about water cooling. But, the friend whom I trust with computer info said go for it, and I'll never build air cooled again. Works like a champ. I have an AMD Phenom II Black edition, 2 Nvidia 470 vid cards, and my ram on water cooling, and my cooling system never breaks 35C/95F. And this is after running a prime program for over an hour. I also have three 120mm fans pulling air through the radiator, I think that helps too. I would put my vote for going water cooled, if your willing to.
 
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